China, the cornered animal

[Hazzard]

I see China being the catalyst for many a struggle in the human race in the near future, 20 to 30 years time approximatly.

I think things are going to get interesting. You see, China is a growing economy and like a hungry animal it needs to be fed. China is growing at a phenominal rate, America knows this and is securing the resources of the world.

China will become like a hungry cornered animal and WILL lash out, you cannot persicute it when it eventualy snaps, America or any government would do the same in that same position.

America, I believe, is planning for Al-Quida to rise up in indo-china. When Iran and Syria are finnished with, america is going to use indo-china as a stepping stone to North Korea, this is ofcourse a ploy to get as close to China as possible. Becuase when the shit hits, america will have direct access to Chinas borders.

Becuase it cant stand a chance conventionaly against Chinas vast population, it will use Swarm Technology, independant smart UAVs armed to the teeth with weaponry and AI that can desginate targets based on priority software, independent of a controller or pilot. These will fly in groups of roughly 8 or something similar. Millions of indespensible smart killers, cheap and effective and capable of combating half the worlds population without its creators even entering the borders of the enemy country. Think Terminator 2, but dont let your imagination go nuts.

Swarm Bot Technology

Call me crazy, I implore you to but what ever you do WATCH THIS SPACE! Remember as you live your next 20-30 years and watch americas movements and the rise of aggresive attitudes between China and the west.

I wish to know if anyone else has the same sort of worries about this situation or if anyone even thinks the same. If you think im a total crackpot by all means PROVE me wrong.

Thank you :)

[Starboy]

Quote by: Hazzard If you think im a total crackpot by all means PROVE me wrong.

That could take 20 or 30 years, maybe more. In any case I hope you're wrong, and the one thing the gives me hope is you can say anything about the Chinese you like but they are patient. It would not surprise me if they just back down and bide their time. Who knows, if China continues on its economic track the Taiwanese will want to join up with the mainland. It is not as if Russia is not a loose cannon and it is not as if the US can afford to be the worlds police for the next 30 years.

Starboy

[RickSp]

China is many things but hardly a cornered animal. It is a nation of 1.3 billion with a long history and rich culture.

An excellent article, IMHO, in yesterday's NY Times:The Two Faces of Rising China

CHINA'S leaders announced last week at the annual National People's Congress that they will give themselves legal authority to attack Taiwan if they decide that the disputed territory has ventured too far toward independence. It was their boldest ultimatum to date, backed by China's rapidly modernizing military. But the banner headline in the next day's China Daily, the official English-language newspaper was: "Peace Paramount in Anti-Secession Bill." Rising China has two faces. Its leaders want - arguably need - to be viewed as managing a new kind of emerging superpower, one that will not threaten neighbors or the world. Only a gentle giant can attract $60 billion in foreign investment and rack up $160 billion annual trade surpluses with the United States, the thinking goes. Yet the Communist Party has also concluded it would lose power if it cedes Taiwan. The bill introduced last Tuesday, and set for passage Monday, is just the latest attempt to prove that the party will pay any price, including a war that might well involve the United States, to preserve China's territorial integrity.

[Hazzard]

Oh I agree, it isnt a cornered animal, yet. But America has already secured the caspian oil basin, well basicaly, all they need is Iran to complete the link, Syria will just be starved into submission with UN sactions.

Like I said China is growing, and it needs fuel. I think it would be interesting if China decided to use close to infinite fuel sources, which there are plenty of now with independent scientists making incredible research into power sources that give out more energy then fuel that is put in, which as a rule of thumb doesnt work with conventional fossil fuels.

Thats going off track a bit but it would be interesting seeing america starving on the fumes of fossil fuels while China booms on close to infinite energy sources. None the less it WILL be a cornered animal when america secures the resources and forces China to back down. If that happens, China will attack no doubt.

[castille]

Judging by fact that the US has pretty much surrounded China with military bases (from Pakistan to Taiwan), China is feeling cornered.

Maybe the US should consider the rational action, which is to remove some of those military bases. Alternatively, China should put up a few military bases in Mexico or Cuba, and see how the US reacts.

[MerlinsByte]

By Hazzard..see China being the catalyst for many a struggle in the human race in the near future, 20 to 30 years time approximatly.

Merlin replies....China is as one member phrased it is “patient”. This has been their strength for thousands of years and its not going to change overnight .I doubt if al Qaeda will gain much of a presence in communist china. Not in its (radical) Muslim configuration. Maybe a new incarnation of the group might be called Al Buddha? (pun intended)

As I have posted before, China will hasten the depletion of the worlds oil reserves, as will other developing third world nations, and this will , I feel , bring the birth pangs of Armageddon upon the world. When ? I don’t know, every apocalyptic generation seems to think that the world will end with theirs, and I am no exception I reckon, so, I will hazard a guess of 2012-2020.

Its prophesied that China will combine with Russia (Gog) and others to attack Israel. China will cross the dried river bed (1) of the ,Euphrates in a traditional military operation with a multi million man army(2) “This swarm” will be flesh and blood, not smart weapons.

Surprisingly the USA isn’t mentioned , however, Europe is , as the army of the common market nations. The common market is the old roman empire reborn.

Don’t believe in the bible or any type prophesy? Truly, I hope I can’t type in dec. of 2015, …“See I told you all I was right….!” :::::::::poof:::::::::::::


notes


(1) the literal translation is over the dried or under the…(river Euphrates)

(2) The bible tells us that it will invade with a 500 million man army, 2000 years ago.
Surprisingly, in the 1980s china boasted that it could field a 500 million man army if needed….



mb

[Hazzard]

Merlin replies....China is as one member phrased it is “patient”. This has been their strength for thousands of years and its not going to change overnight .I doubt if al Qaeda will gain much of a presence in communist china. Not in its (radical) Muslim configuration. Maybe a new incarnation of the group might be called Al Buddha? (pun intended)

Actualy Chinas power had been fractured for a good long time since roughly 100 years ago.
And Al-Qaeda qoes where its employers tell it to. There is ALREADY a presence of Al-Queda in Indo-China, there have been numerous stories of gangs of them going into christian villages and slaughtering everyone inside. Al-Queda is the manufactured enemy America can send where they want in order to get there armies anywhere they want. And there are enough muslims in indo-china and that region to keep Al-Qieda throwing its men against a barrage of bullets for a good 20 or 30 years yet.

As I have posted before, China will hasten the depletion of the worlds oil reserves, as will other developing third world nations, and this will , I feel , bring the birth pangs of Armageddon upon the world. When ? I don’t know, every apocalyptic generation seems to think that the world will end with theirs, and I am no exception I reckon, so, I will hazard a guess of 2012-2020.

The reason I say 20 or 30 years is becuase this is based on the amount of time China will have to supercede Americas economy, when it will be able to take the rains of the UN with more money then the US can throw at them.

Its prophesied that China will combine with Russia (Gog) and others to attack Israel. China will cross the dried river bed (1) of the ,Euphrates in a traditional military operation with a multi million man army(2) “This swarm” will be flesh and blood, not smart weapons.

Glad to see someone knows the score this is ofcourse basicaly what this entire discussion is based on. The dragon will betray the west. All of thos who do believe will hopefully be in a better place before that happens . And ofcourse china and russias swarm will be of flesh and blood, becuase they can spare it. Americas "Swarm" will be of machines, and they can spare as many of those as they need.

Surprisingly the USA isn’t mentioned , however, Europe is , as the army of the common market nations. The common market is the old roman empire reborn.

America wont be mentioned becuase it is the vessel for satan. He needs that place untouched becuase thats where his resources lie I think. And Europe, well lets just say im not to comfortable about being in the UK to be honest, I think things will begin to get very very very HOT from falling STARS in the near future.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Hazzard America wont be mentioned becuase it is the vessel for satan. He needs that place untouched becuase thats where his resources lie I think. And Europe, well lets just say im not to comfortable about being in the UK to be honest, I think things will begin to get very very very HOT from falling STARS in the near future.

Bring it on, bitch. For the hordes of mighty Valhalla will fall upon the Jotun Alliance in the Ragnarok, and though we shall sadly lose the wise Odin and courageous Thor, we shall in the end prevail.

[Logjam]

Indeed China is a growing threat. The Taiwan question is coming to a head and there may be fireworks in the region. We may become involved. I'd hate to see that.

The saving grace may be that China is making big bucks in international trade. And as any good capitalists knows, trade and protecting ones markets requires peace. Warfare is the enemy of trade, and if a country such as China is making significant profits the distant sound of guns might not be so enticing.

[Hazzard]

Quote by: Logjam Indeed China is a growing threat. The Taiwan question is coming to a head and there may be fireworks in the region. We may become involved. I'd hate to see that. The saving grace may be that China is making big bucks in international trade. And as any good capitalists knows, trade and protecting ones markets requires peace. Warfare is the enemy of trade, and if a country such as China is making significant profits the distant sound of guns might not be so enticing.

I agree that China is a threat, but the way that sounds and what that insinuates is entirly unfair to China (not blaming you btw). China can ONLY react violently when it has to be fed and everyone else is scoffing the food. Animals react in the same way, it needs food it fights for it, this is the basic circle of life and the same goes for any complex organism. I think its a shame that in this day and age (or what they would have you think is a modernised and democratic society) could result in war over something as peti as resources when we all know how finite they are, the fight is peti as instead it would make more sence to cooperate in order to find better sources for power and energy. But that would rational and logical, meaning its automatical the LAST thing on any governments mind :eek:

[fushigi]

Quote by: RickSp China is many things but hardly a cornered animal. It is a nation of 1.3 billion with a long history and rich culture. An excellent article, IMHO, in yesterday's NY Times:The Two Faces of Rising China

I have to agree. As concerns China using its military as politics by other means, I think you need to fairly ignore the international system and focus on domestic China. State socialism is in its death throes in the PRC, which logically begs the question, "Then why do we have a single Communist Chinese Party?" The answer is, because the CCP is in control of the military, and the military has proved it will use force to keep political opponents down, dead, or in laogai prison camps.

But they don't like to do that. Like other military regimes (which China is, don't let Hu Jintao's business suit fool you) the CCP wants to be popular, and with communism bankrupt, it uses two things: consumerism and nationalism. As for consumerism, all's good. GDP per capita, adjusting for inflation, has risen by over three times since 1978. In terms of nationalism, Taiwan is the jewel in the PRC's crown. The Chinese people have to believe they can reclaim it - after all, it's being run by the KMT goons who gunned down CCP heroes in the streets of Shanghai and stole all the treasures from the Forbidden City before occupying the island. If Taiwan's lost on the CCP's watch, its popularity is done for - and, they assume, their single-party rule.

So you better believe the CCP will do whatever it has to to keep things at least status quo on Taiwan. But as far as a worldwide conflagration, as Hazzard suggested, it would disrupt their other method of staying popular - consumerism. So don't bet on it, buddy.

[castille]

What's wrong with military rule? It's just like the US.

Personally I do believe the US is a threat to China, and if they overstep their mark, they must be taken down. Right now there is US bases in Taiwan, Japan, Phillipines, etc. When will the United States invade, that is the question.

[fushigi]

Quote by: castille Personally I do believe the US is a threat to China, and if they overstep their mark, they must be taken down. Right now there is US bases in Taiwan, Japan, Phillipines, etc. When will the United States invade, that is the question.

Wow, was there a sale on ignorance today or something? The logistics of an attack aside (Hazzard seems to have it all worked out in his "I read too much Scientific American" invasion plan) a Sino-American war is out of the question for two reasons.

First, it wouldn't advance either country's strategic impulses to have one. The U.S. military can hardly occupy Iraq, how could it possibly occupy a country nearly its own size? As for China, like I said before, the CCP wants economic growth and to retain its legitimacy as it guts the country of its socialist backbone. The only thing that could ignite any kind of war would be Taiwan, see previous post. Second, the military situation between the U.S. and China is completely uneven. China spends about a tenth on its military what the U.S. does, and its nukes are tactical - they can only reach as far as the west coast. That means China doesn't even have the capacity of the Soviets circa 1989, and even they weren't nutty enough to launch a direct attack on the U.S. (despite all the military bases encircling the U.S.S.R., oops, think I just took the wind out of your "but what about all those U.S. military bases" argument).

I said it before, I'll say it again, the only possible military situation in the foreseeable future would be if a cross-strait conflict got out of hand. Even if the mainland attacked Taiwan (it won't unless the DPP declares independence, which the U.S. won't allow), IMO the only results against China would be massive worldwide sanctions, like they had after June 4th, and that would be counterintuitive to their #1 strategy - economic development.

Bark up another tree already!

[Hazzard]

Wow, was there a sale on ignorance today or something? The logistics of an attack aside (Hazzard seems to have it all worked out in his "I read too much Scientific American" invasion plan) a Sino-American war is out of the question for two reasons.

Never herd of that magazine, as I dont live in the states and I dont read crap like that. Nothing is black and white, you seem to have railroaded all my statements into an assumtion that I think China and America are going head to head in the next few weeks. When you concider how out of hand things got in the middle east in just one decade, its not difficult to see how aggression between China and the US can increase. Although with the shear arrogants of both countries, im sure it would escalate into a hot war.

First, it wouldn't advance either country's strategic impulses to have one. The U.S. military can hardly occupy Iraq, how could it possibly occupy a country nearly its own size? As for China, like I said before, the CCP wants economic growth and to retain its legitimacy as it guts the country of its socialist backbone. The only thing that could ignite any kind of war would be Taiwan, see previous post. Second, the military situation between the U.S. and China is completely uneven. China spends about a tenth on its military what the U.S. does, and its nukes are tactical - they can only reach as far as the west coast. That means China doesn't even have the capacity of the Soviets circa 1989, and even they weren't nutty enough to launch a direct attack on the U.S. (despite all the military bases encircling the U.S.S.R., oops, think I just took the wind out of your "but what about all those U.S. military bases" argument).

First off, strategic benefits for China would simply be eliminating that stinking yank monkey off of its shoulder, and I wouldnt be surprised if it thinks it could do it with ease (im inclined to agree if I didnt KNOW what America has in store for it).
Secondly, the American government is a freemason establishment (regardless of whether any of there 'prophecies' are true or not, they believe they are and will see them taking place whether they have to make it happen or not. I merely stated that the way they will do this is by cornering China, urging it to take them on. Oh and btw Russia had so many preperations for an invasion of the US with planned staging areas in San Fransisco and all over the west coast. Ive seen some astonishing leaked movies of war games from the USSR on how they would accomplish this, I must say if it werent for money problems and the threat of nukes they could very well have pulled it off becuase it was realy impressive stuff. I couldnt imagine a marine or national guard lasting a second against any Spetz.

said it before, I'll say it again, the only possible military situation in the foreseeable future would be if a cross-strait conflict got out of hand. Even if the mainland attacked Taiwan (it won't unless the DPP declares independence, which the U.S. won't allow), IMO the only results against China would be massive worldwide sanctions, like they had after June 4th, and that would be counterintuitive to their #1 strategy - economic development.

You said it yourself, Taiwan is the status quo FOR NOW. American forces are on the move throughout the world with one thing on there mind, resources. When they accomplish this Tiawan will be the least to worry about on Chinas agenda.

[allen]

Quote by: fushigi The logistics of an attack aside (Hazzard seems to have it all worked out in his "I read too much Scientific American" invasion plan) a Sino-American war is out of the question for two reasons.

You are right on this. China does not want to fight with US. It is against China's interest. Look, China has been waiting for more than 50 years on Taiwan, and will continue to wait as long as the status quo is being maintained.

I said it before, I'll say it again, the only possible military situation in the foreseeable future would be if a cross-strait conflict got out of hand. Even if the mainland attacked Taiwan (it won't unless the DPP declares independence, which the U.S. won't allow), IMO the only results against China would be massive worldwide sanctions, like they had after June 4th, and that would be counterintuitive to their #1 strategy - economic development.

This is true again. But China will not start the war. It can only react with a war to Taiwan's formal independence, and it will be very sad if that comes true.

As for a possible war against China, I think Japan is more possible a candidate than US. China has no history problems with US, except Taiwan (which is not that important to US and US will eventually dump). Japan is very different, it has all kinds of ambitions in this area, especially over Taiwan. Besides, it can hijack US's power with that Jap-US alliance.

[PatrickHenry]

Listen, allen. Self-determination is a basic human right. If the voters of Taiwan choose to set an independent course, what right does the PRC have to invade and start killing people? That would be tyranny, don't you agree?

And Hazzard, If you think the Russkies could have ever pulled off a successful occupation of the US, you are in outer space. They got their butts kicked out of Afghanistan, by peasants turned warrior, and their supply lines were short. You obviously don't understand the concept of citizen militia, and the extent of citizen weaponry, training and devotion to nation that exists in the USA. The retired military ALONE in the US could send any Russsian occupiers reeling, heh.

[tinybear]

Yeah, you tell it to them, Uncle Patrick! What China is effectively saying is to Taiwan is: either you marry me or I'll rape you. What kinda proposal is that?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: tinybear Yeah, you tell it to them, Uncle Patrick! What China is effectively saying is to Taiwan is: either you marry me or I'll rape you. What kinda proposal is that?

Not very romantic, huh, tinybear?

[allen]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Listen, allen. Self-determination is a basic human right. If the voters of Taiwan choose to set an independent course, what right does the PRC have to invade and start killing people? That would be tyranny, don't you agree?

Agree, but only if such a self-determination can be conducted without intervention from US, or Japan. This is hard at this point. Besides, most of people in Taiwan right now want to keep the status quo. If nobody wants to hijack the democracy to do something most Taiwanese don't like, there will be no war.

If they set an independent course, they would have to fight an independence war like US's. It has nothing to do with tyranny in China. 99%, if not 100%, of mainland chinese would like to fight if force is necessary. Put US government in China's shoes, it will do the same thing.

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear Yeah, you tell it to them, Uncle Patrick! What China is effectively saying is to Taiwan is: either you marry me or I'll rape you. What kinda proposal is that?

China has never said this. US said something similar to the world.

Quote by: Bush, Sep 20, 2001 Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists

And I did not see anything improper.