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castille · Jan 31, 2004, 10:32 am

It seems today, America and Europe are becoming more of a lazy society. We have "get rich quick" programs, "lose fat" programs (ever heard of exercise?), pills that make your body parts bigger, and even welfare to encourage people not to work (why is it that welfare collectors get more money than salaried workers?).

The land of America was famous for one thing: determination. It was built on determination. In the 1700s, when you went to America, you didn't get welfare. You carved out a plot of land in harsh terrain, fought against the elements, and defended your claim. Eventually, after decades of backbreaking work, you could earn a good living.

Today Americans are not even looking for land. They're looking for quick solutions to long-term problems. We want things to go faster. Unions today don't defend worker rights; they either demand air conditioning to go with the factories, or ask for machines to be painted in pastel colours to "make everyone happy".

Worst of all, they're looking for people to blame. If something goes wrong, its the governments fault. Its your parents fault you turned out to be a loser. Its your genes that you are fat and lazy. Its the cats fault you can't get laid. I expect a protest anytime soon blaming cats for global poverty.

During colonial times, 50% of settlers are recorded to have lost their lives during the voyage to America, or during settlement. Today, 50% of Americans lose their lives because they sit around too much and develop some form of disease from getting too fat.

Credit card debt is at an all-time high. Why do Americans need a credit card? Unless you're conducting international business, I believe 99% of establishments accept cash or cheque. This itself points to the fact people want more but do not want to pay for it.

How many obese people do you see today? Oh, they have their excuses. "Its my genes that make me fat and lazy. Blame the government. Blame Bush and the war." The problem is, why is obesity almost non-existent outside of Europe and America? So 5% of obese people have "genetic problems", what about the other 95%?

A socialist society is not a solution. If people are lazy today, imagine how lazy they will be when socialism offers them good living, whether they work or not! Especially in America, where slacking off at work, school, and even family life is on an all-time high.

Perhaps we need a nuclear war and complete anarchy to get rid of the lazy, and let the hardworking prosper? After all, Americans once built empires from nothing. Erase the land, and start again....

Impenitent · Jan 31, 2004, 10:43 am

nice post!

revolution comes in a harder form than the commies would like...

eburchelli · Jan 31, 2004, 03:39 pm

I don't know about you but to me, the US is already socialist. Not in the same way as a Canada or a France but the federal government has situated itself, as the rightful doer of our deeds.

Real socialism depends upon a work ethic. Those who don't work will be even lower on the totem pole of life. The problem with socialism is that most of us who do work, will all be equal, no matter what level of work we do.

I'm against equality except for our human rights. Even in civil rights, we cannot all be the same. Laws that try making us the same, take away any individuality that we might possess.

By the way, America (as in the United States) has never had an Empire except itself. I think you have it confused with those European nations, who colonialized around the globe.

Garath331 · Feb 2, 2004, 09:43 pm

I would like to point out that there is usually someone working behind the means to allow others to be lazy, so there is some work going on.

Suburbanite · Feb 3, 2004, 12:00 am

It is nice to know the protestant work ethic has really twisted you around so much.

Venmax · Feb 3, 2004, 01:57 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
It is nice to know the protestant work ethic has really twisted you around so much.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Look Mack. I don't mind the sarcasm as long as it comes with some reasoning with it. Take 4 minutes out of your busy day and look up the word "ELABORATE" in the dictionary. Ponder it's meaning, and then return to post a suitable reply.

Suburbanite · Feb 3, 2004, 05:27 am

Mack? I like that.
My point is simply this work hard and everything will come to you mindset is a massive fallacy corporations want you to believe in. As if the entire reasoning behind things is laziness. That’s simply being naive. People who work hard often get the short end of the stick and I am personally tired of hearing people displace them.
And the obesity is simply because people CAN eat that much; it is an inevitable I think, though not healthy. I live in Southern California so I don’t see as many fat people as the rest of America.

white rice · Feb 3, 2004, 05:52 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)
It seems today, America and Europe are becoming more of a lazy society. We have "get rich quick" programs, "lose fat" programs (ever heard of exercise?), pills that make your body parts bigger, and even welfare to encourage people not to work (why is it that welfare collectors get more money than salaried workers?).
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I love it when non-Americans made bold fatheaded claims....

The average middle class American works beyond the typical eight hour day to get overtime, and most American households are two income families. In order to properly "lose fat", you need to have a healthy diet and enough time to excersise. But time is something many Americans don't have. It's not surprising then that fast food and dining restaurants are an exploding industry. More Americans are dining out than cooking at home.

More Americans are compulsively buying products they might not need, hence the overtime and two income families. So while Americans are working hard, their pay isn't high enough to warrant the lifestyle they're accustomed to.

Another stereotype shattered. Want to spew more that you see on television?

darwinist · Feb 3, 2004, 07:24 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Today Americans are not even looking for land. They're looking for quick solutions to long-term problems. We want things to go faster. Unions today don't defend worker rights; they either demand air conditioning to go with the factories, or ask for machines to be painted in pastel colours to "make everyone happy".<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Unions today, are not the power houses there once where. The more the 'global' economy grows. The more international business will move 'production' jobs aboard. Which leads to IMO silly situtation. Like some customer service call centres for british banks being in India. So the more unions demand better conditions, the more likely the company is going to move that factory to a place. Where they don't have to meet those conditions.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
A socialist society is not a solution. If people are lazy today, imagine how lazy they will be when socialism offers them good living, whether they work or not! Especially in America, where slacking off at work, school, and even family life is on an all-time high.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

A socialist society is not one that gives free hand outs to lazy people. That is just your preception of the 'social' system. A socialist society is based upon helping those in society, that can not help themselves. But because these 'ideas' we impleted by non socialist parties. There ideas have been twisted, though comprimise and policy. Making a weird hybid that doesn't really help anyone. Except those who understand and can 'use' the system.

Venmax · Feb 3, 2004, 08:37 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
My point is simply this work hard and everything will come to you mindset is a massive fallacy corporations want you to believe in. As if the entire reasoning behind things is laziness. That’s simply being naive. People who work hard often get the short end of the stick and I am personally tired of hearing people displace them.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Ok junior. Let's drop your ass on a Deserted Tropical Island with nothing but a machete and some matches. Then lets revisit you in about a year to see how you're doing. I guaran-freeking-tee you that unless you do some "Hard Work" in that year you're there we're going to be visiting a corpse. Hard work is not some "Massive Fallacy" that George Bush invented - it's part of the human condition. We didn't get to the moon by sucking on freeze pops and watching re-runs of Giligans Island. I love the way you "Enlightened" liberals totally write off the notion of a Strong Work Ethic based soley on the fact that inequity exists in the world. Of course it does - we're human - we're individuals - we're not a bunch of freeking robots that come off an assembly line.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Unions today, are not the power houses there once where. The more the 'global' economy grows. The more international business will move 'production' jobs aboard. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

This is true - and yes I agree that the hard work those people do NEEDS to be rewarded. They need strong Unions just like we have here in Anglo-World. Are YOU gonna go over to India? Or China? Or South America in order to help them start up Unions?

LoL!! I thought not!! I love the way you guys say America throws it's weight around and intrudes on peoples "Cultures" and then turn around and bitch about how they aren't enough like us. Make up your freeking mind!! If you aren't going to get on a plane and go help the workers of the world organize in their home countries (and risk a bullet in the head by the dictators and thugs that run those places) then shut the fuck up and quit blaming us for it!!

Impenitent · Feb 3, 2004, 09:46 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (darwinist,)
A socialist society is not one that gives free hand outs to lazy people. That is just your preception of the 'social' system. A socialist society is based upon helping those in society, that can not help themselves. But because these 'ideas' we impleted by non socialist parties. There ideas have been twisted, though comprimise and policy. Making a weird hybid that doesn't really help anyone. Except those who understand and can 'use' the system.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

look at the great socialist countries of europe... what are the unemployment rates?

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee...ess/7774022.htm

"A socialist society is based upon helping those in society, that can not help themselves."

no, that's a CHURCH... repulsively christian at that...

Venmax · Feb 3, 2004, 10:03 am

It simply boils down to how differentiate between someone who actually can't help themself and someone who is just plain lazy and will do nothing but exploit the system. Europeans have trouble telling the difference I think!!

Venmax · Feb 3, 2004, 10:45 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Today Americans are not even looking for land<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Oh - and that's not quite true. We're currently scoping out the best spots on the moon and mars. :)

darwinist · Feb 3, 2004, 12:17 pm

Venmax
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
This is true - and yes I agree that the hard work those people do NEEDS to be rewarded. They need strong Unions just like we have here in Anglo-World. Are YOU gonna go over to India? Or China? Or South America in order to help them start up Unions?

LoL!! I thought not!! I love the way you guys say America throws it's weight around and intrudes on peoples "Cultures" and then turn around and bitch about how they aren't enough like us. Make up your freeking mind!! If you aren't going to get on a plane and go help the workers of the world organize in their home countries (and risk a bullet in the head by the dictators and thugs that run those places) then shut the fuck up and quit blaming us for it!!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I have in fact worked with the UN of various projects. To help people in other lands. In the Middle East and North Africa.

So your conclusion is wrong. You normally meant to ask questions and wait for the answers. Not answer them yourself. Second, I am not some guy from America. If you bothered to click on my name and profile. You would see that i am in the Netherlands. So a second mistake on your behalf. I am not blaming anyone. I stated stated the facts of the 'global' economy. So all your conclusions are wrong. Perhaps you will "research" your facts better, before 'throwing your weight around'. As you put it.

Anarchist Patriot · Feb 3, 2004, 12:45 pm

America has always punished hard work, espcially if the workers are poor and disenfranchised.

Case in point, look at the slaves. Did any of them get their 40 acres and a mule?

America has always been a country of freeloading idle rich and poor working folk. And this continues to this day.

Venmax · Feb 3, 2004, 01:23 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I have in fact worked with the UN of various projects. To help people in other lands. In the Middle East and North Africa.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

And you, sir, are the EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Case in point, look at the slaves. Did any of them get their 40 acres and a mule? <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Your right - that whole Civil War thing that abolished slavery here and eventually led to slavery's dramatic global decline over the next 150 years was just a big fucking accident.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
America has always been a country of freeloading idle rich and poor working folk. And this continues to this day. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Again your right - we have no middle class whatsoever. It's all peoples imagination. They must be dropping acid or something.

Section 8 · Feb 3, 2004, 08:07 pm

What Socialism lacks is an insentive, if I'm getting all my money, why shouldn't I just sit on my ass drinking tequila? Also, that money has to come from somewhere, that means the government has to resort to forceful coercion or stealing. So the government advocates theft towards the rich, but the poor get a free ride on other's money.

Bayou · Feb 4, 2004, 07:02 am

......section 8 would you be ignoring the point that these people get rich of the work of the poor?
The Fabians have a point that at least when they take money, it is used on infrastructure that is utilised by all of the people.
Fabian socialism when implemented to an extreme does reward lazyness to a degree, but it is debatable that the people who are the most wealthy in the system get their through hard work: user fees for small businesses will take away hard worked money compared to a monopoly or brand name that doesnt have to work a tenth as hard to make the equivalent funds.
This is what many small business owners are facing in Alberta, with their so called "business friendly tax system" which in fact preys on the harder working small business owner by charging flat rates that barely dent corporate coffers.
Communisms goal is to replace the monetary system all together :just because past systems have failed (and as NOR has even realised, the NEP was merely excessive fabian socialism manipulating capitalist tools) doesnt mean their isnt a method of incentive that could be impleneted focusing on the work you contribute rather then an arbitrary unit to represent that work.

Heh replaced slavery, right, replaced it with a universal system of slavery that does not discriminate beetween colour called "the minimum wage", lets ignore the fact that the black population still disproportionatley is part of this bottom rung, they now share it with others felled prey to the capitalist fascism (Illegal Immigrants and a marginalised people of the pro capitalist post secondary educational system).

tusaki · Feb 4, 2004, 07:30 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,)
What Socialism lacks is an insentive, if I'm getting all my money, why shouldn't I just sit on my ass drinking tequila?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Well, mostly because drinking tequila would be implying you have the money to buy the tequila. And the welfare system is not much. it's the -bare minimum- under which people can survive (and probably still loan from friends/family).
Also, people are forced to find jobs, even jobs in which they are over-qualified. You aren't trying? you dont get a welfare cheque.

When did people get the idea that living of wellfare is easy?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,)
Also, that money has to come from somewhere, that means the government has to resort to forceful coercion or stealing. So the government advocates theft towards the rich, but the poor get a free ride on other's money.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
I tend to agree with you here. But the rich are hardly 'poorer' from the burden the government places upon them. Hell, I -wish- I would have to pay 50% taxes, because that would mean I would have enough money for 3 cars, 2 houses and a boat. And still drink champange every morning.

Venmax · Feb 4, 2004, 07:51 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
When did people get the idea that living of wellfare is easy?
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

You guys are still missing the point. It's not whether or not Welfare is bad - it's about telling the difference between who's using it to better themselves, and who's using it for a free ride. Anybody who's spending what cash they have on booze, or drugs, or walking around in 100 dollar tennis shoes while collecting welfare should be BOOTED from the system. There need to be requirements on what sorts of lifestyle budget choices these people make - I'm not for giving my money away to just anyone you know. People who take government aid, providing they are of able mind and body, should be drug tested and present a monthly budget to the government.

The trouble with you jerks is you don't want any personal accountability worked into the system - you claim it's "Oppressive" or "Racist" - HORSESHIT. And it's particularly deplorable when you tie it to Race. Take a look at all the East Asian immigrants that come into this country. They work their ASSES off and have very strong families - they DON'T SUCK UP ALL THE WELFARE. The poor white, black, and hispanics do all that - and they make bad lifestyle budget choices to boot. They need a freaking wake up call. If Hop Sing or Mr. Patel can come here with ZILCH and totally whip ass and live the American dream anyone BORN here should be plenty able to do the same.

Jan 31, 2004, 10:32 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	It seems today, America and Europe are becoming more of a lazy society. We have "get rich quick" programs, "lose fat" programs (ever heard of exercise?), pills that make your body parts bigger, and even welfare to encourage people not to work (why is it that welfare collectors get more money than salaried workers?). The land of America was famous for one thing: determination. It was built on determination. In the 1700s, when you went to America, you didn't get welfare. You carved out a plot of land in harsh terrain, fought against the elements, and defended your claim. Eventually, after decades of backbreaking work, you could earn a good living. Today Americans are not even looking for land. They're looking for quick solutions to long-term problems. We want things to go faster. Unions today don't defend worker rights; they either demand air conditioning to go with the factories, or ask for machines to be painted in pastel colours to "make everyone happy". Worst of all, they're looking for people to blame. If something goes wrong, its the governments fault. Its your parents fault you turned out to be a loser. Its your genes that you are fat and lazy. Its the cats fault you can't get laid. I expect a protest anytime soon blaming cats for global poverty. During colonial times, 50% of settlers are recorded to have lost their lives during the voyage to America, or during settlement. Today, 50% of Americans lose their lives because they sit around too much and develop some form of disease from getting too fat. Credit card debt is at an all-time high. Why do Americans need a credit card? Unless you're conducting international business, I believe 99% of establishments accept cash or cheque. This itself points to the fact people want more but do not want to pay for it. How many obese people do you see today? Oh, they have their excuses. "Its my genes that make me fat and lazy. Blame the government. Blame Bush and the war." The problem is, why is obesity almost non-existent outside of Europe and America? So 5% of obese people have "genetic problems", what about the other 95%? A socialist society is not a solution. If people are lazy today, imagine how lazy they will be when socialism offers them good living, whether they work or not! Especially in America, where slacking off at work, school, and even family life is on an all-time high. Perhaps we need a nuclear war and complete anarchy to get rid of the lazy, and let the hardworking prosper? After all, Americans once built empires from nothing. Erase the land, and start again.... Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jan 31, 2004, 10:43 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	nice post! revolution comes in a harder form than the commies would like... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 2, 2004, 09:43 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Garath331 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 6	I would like to point out that there is usually someone working behind the means to allow others to be lazy, so there is some work going on. Why do you all hate my God?

Feb 3, 2004, 01:57 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Venmax Molten Ash Posts: 28	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by It is nice to know the protestant work ethic has really twisted you around so much. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Look Mack. I don't mind the sarcasm as long as it comes with some reasoning with it. Take 4 minutes out of your busy day and look up the word "ELABORATE" in the dictionary. Ponder it's meaning, and then return to post a suitable reply.

Feb 3, 2004, 05:52 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
white rice Igneous Magma Posts: 372	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,) It seems today, America and Europe are becoming more of a lazy society. We have "get rich quick" programs, "lose fat" programs (ever heard of exercise?), pills that make your body parts bigger, and even welfare to encourage people not to work (why is it that welfare collectors get more money than salaried workers?). <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I love it when non-Americans made bold fatheaded claims.... The average middle class American works beyond the typical eight hour day to get overtime, and most American households are two income families. In order to properly "lose fat", you need to have a healthy diet and enough time to excersise. But time is something many Americans don't have. It's not surprising then that fast food and dining restaurants are an exploding industry. More Americans are dining out than cooking at home. More Americans are compulsively buying products they might not need, hence the overtime and two income families. So while Americans are working hard, their pay isn't high enough to warrant the lifestyle they're accustomed to. Another stereotype shattered. Want to spew more that you see on television? Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Jan 31, 2004, 03:39 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
eburchelli Molten Ash Posts: 106	I don't know about you but to me, the US is already socialist. Not in the same way as a Canada or a France but the federal government has situated itself, as the rightful doer of our deeds. Real socialism depends upon a work ethic. Those who don't work will be even lower on the totem pole of life. The problem with socialism is that most of us who do work, will all be equal, no matter what level of work we do. I'm against equality except for our human rights. Even in civil rights, we cannot all be the same. Laws that try making us the same, take away any individuality that we might possess. By the way, America (as in the United States) has never had an Empire except itself. I think you have it confused with those European nations, who colonialized around the globe.

Feb 3, 2004, 12:00 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	It is nice to know the protestant work ethic has really twisted you around so much.

Feb 3, 2004, 05:27 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Mack? I like that. My point is simply this work hard and everything will come to you mindset is a massive fallacy corporations want you to believe in. As if the entire reasoning behind things is laziness. That’s simply being naive. People who work hard often get the short end of the stick and I am personally tired of hearing people displace them. And the obesity is simply because people CAN eat that much; it is an inevitable I think, though not healthy. I live in Southern California so I don’t see as many fat people as the rest of America.

Feb 3, 2004, 07:24 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
darwinist Igneous Magma Location: Netherlands Posts: 200	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Today Americans are not even looking for land. They're looking for quick solutions to long-term problems. We want things to go faster. Unions today don't defend worker rights; they either demand air conditioning to go with the factories, or ask for machines to be painted in pastel colours to "make everyone happy".<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Unions today, are not the power houses there once where. The more the 'global' economy grows. The more international business will move 'production' jobs aboard. Which leads to IMO silly situtation. Like some customer service call centres for british banks being in India. So the more unions demand better conditions, the more likely the company is going to move that factory to a place. Where they don't have to meet those conditions. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by A socialist society is not a solution. If people are lazy today, imagine how lazy they will be when socialism offers them good living, whether they work or not! Especially in America, where slacking off at work, school, and even family life is on an all-time high.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> A socialist society is not one that gives free hand outs to lazy people. That is just your preception of the 'social' system. A socialist society is based upon helping those in society, that can not help themselves. But because these 'ideas' we impleted by non socialist parties. There ideas have been twisted, though comprimise and policy. Making a weird hybid that doesn't really help anyone. Except those who understand and can 'use' the system. What goes 'up', must come 'down', unless it goes around and round.

Feb 3, 2004, 08:37 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Venmax Molten Ash Posts: 28	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by My point is simply this work hard and everything will come to you mindset is a massive fallacy corporations want you to believe in. As if the entire reasoning behind things is laziness. That’s simply being naive. People who work hard often get the short end of the stick and I am personally tired of hearing people displace them. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Ok junior. Let's drop your ass on a Deserted Tropical Island with nothing but a machete and some matches. Then lets revisit you in about a year to see how you're doing. I guaran-freeking-tee you that unless you do some "Hard Work" in that year you're there we're going to be visiting a corpse. Hard work is not some "Massive Fallacy" that George Bush invented - it's part of the human condition. We didn't get to the moon by sucking on freeze pops and watching re-runs of Giligans Island. I love the way you "Enlightened" liberals totally write off the notion of a Strong Work Ethic based soley on the fact that inequity exists in the world. Of course it does - we're human - we're individuals - we're not a bunch of freeking robots that come off an assembly line. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Unions today, are not the power houses there once where. The more the 'global' economy grows. The more international business will move 'production' jobs aboard. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This is true - and yes I agree that the hard work those people do NEEDS to be rewarded. They need strong Unions just like we have here in Anglo-World. Are YOU gonna go over to India? Or China? Or South America in order to help them start up Unions? LoL!! I thought not!! I love the way you guys say America throws it's weight around and intrudes on peoples "Cultures" and then turn around and bitch about how they aren't enough like us. Make up your freeking mind!! If you aren't going to get on a plane and go help the workers of the world organize in their home countries (and risk a bullet in the head by the dictators and thugs that run those places) then shut the fuck up and quit blaming us for it!!

Feb 3, 2004, 09:46 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (darwinist,) A socialist society is not one that gives free hand outs to lazy people. That is just your preception of the 'social' system. A socialist society is based upon helping those in society, that can not help themselves. But because these 'ideas' we impleted by non socialist parties. There ideas have been twisted, though comprimise and policy. Making a weird hybid that doesn't really help anyone. Except those who understand and can 'use' the system.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> look at the great socialist countries of europe... what are the unemployment rates? http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee...ess/7774022.htm "A socialist society is based upon helping those in society, that can not help themselves." no, that's a CHURCH... repulsively christian at that... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 3, 2004, 10:03 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Venmax Molten Ash Posts: 28	It simply boils down to how differentiate between someone who actually can't help themself and someone who is just plain lazy and will do nothing but exploit the system. Europeans have trouble telling the difference I think!!

Feb 3, 2004, 10:45 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Venmax Molten Ash Posts: 28	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Today Americans are not even looking for land<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Oh - and that's not quite true. We're currently scoping out the best spots on the moon and mars. :)

Feb 3, 2004, 12:17 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
darwinist Igneous Magma Location: Netherlands Posts: 200	Venmax </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by This is true - and yes I agree that the hard work those people do NEEDS to be rewarded. They need strong Unions just like we have here in Anglo-World. Are YOU gonna go over to India? Or China? Or South America in order to help them start up Unions? LoL!! I thought not!! I love the way you guys say America throws it's weight around and intrudes on peoples "Cultures" and then turn around and bitch about how they aren't enough like us. Make up your freeking mind!! If you aren't going to get on a plane and go help the workers of the world organize in their home countries (and risk a bullet in the head by the dictators and thugs that run those places) then shut the fuck up and quit blaming us for it!!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I have in fact worked with the UN of various projects. To help people in other lands. In the Middle East and North Africa. So your conclusion is wrong. You normally meant to ask questions and wait for the answers. Not answer them yourself. Second, I am not some guy from America. If you bothered to click on my name and profile. You would see that i am in the Netherlands. So a second mistake on your behalf. I am not blaming anyone. I stated stated the facts of the 'global' economy. So all your conclusions are wrong. Perhaps you will "research" your facts better, before 'throwing your weight around'. As you put it. What goes 'up', must come 'down', unless it goes around and round.

Feb 3, 2004, 12:45 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Anarchist Patriot Molten Ash Posts: 143	America has always punished hard work, espcially if the workers are poor and disenfranchised. Case in point, look at the slaves. Did any of them get their 40 acres and a mule? America has always been a country of freeloading idle rich and poor working folk. And this continues to this day.

Feb 3, 2004, 01:23 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Venmax Molten Ash Posts: 28	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I have in fact worked with the UN of various projects. To help people in other lands. In the Middle East and North Africa. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> And you, sir, are the EXCEPTION TO THE RULE. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Case in point, look at the slaves. Did any of them get their 40 acres and a mule? <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Your right - that whole Civil War thing that abolished slavery here and eventually led to slavery's dramatic global decline over the next 150 years was just a big fucking accident. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by America has always been a country of freeloading idle rich and poor working folk. And this continues to this day. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Again your right - we have no middle class whatsoever. It's all peoples imagination. They must be dropping acid or something.

Feb 3, 2004, 08:07 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	What Socialism lacks is an insentive, if I'm getting all my money, why shouldn't I just sit on my ass drinking tequila? Also, that money has to come from somewhere, that means the government has to resort to forceful coercion or stealing. So the government advocates theft towards the rich, but the poor get a free ride on other's money.

Feb 4, 2004, 07:02 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
Bayou Igneous Magma Location: Calgary Alberta Canada Posts: 154	......section 8 would you be ignoring the point that these people get rich of the work of the poor? The Fabians have a point that at least when they take money, it is used on infrastructure that is utilised by all of the people. Fabian socialism when implemented to an extreme does reward lazyness to a degree, but it is debatable that the people who are the most wealthy in the system get their through hard work: user fees for small businesses will take away hard worked money compared to a monopoly or brand name that doesnt have to work a tenth as hard to make the equivalent funds. This is what many small business owners are facing in Alberta, with their so called "business friendly tax system" which in fact preys on the harder working small business owner by charging flat rates that barely dent corporate coffers. Communisms goal is to replace the monetary system all together :just because past systems have failed (and as NOR has even realised, the NEP was merely excessive fabian socialism manipulating capitalist tools) doesnt mean their isnt a method of incentive that could be impleneted focusing on the work you contribute rather then an arbitrary unit to represent that work. Heh replaced slavery, right, replaced it with a universal system of slavery that does not discriminate beetween colour called "the minimum wage", lets ignore the fact that the black population still disproportionatley is part of this bottom rung, they now share it with others felled prey to the capitalist fascism (Illegal Immigrants and a marginalised people of the pro capitalist post secondary educational system). <span style='font-size:16pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Impact'><span style='color:green'>Vote NDP "The independence of art for the revolution. "The revolution for the complete liberation of art!"</span></span></span>

Feb 4, 2004, 07:30 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
tusaki Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,) What Socialism lacks is an insentive, if I'm getting all my money, why shouldn't I just sit on my ass drinking tequila?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Well, mostly because drinking tequila would be implying you have the money to buy the tequila. And the welfare system is not much. it's the -bare minimum- under which people can survive (and probably still loan from friends/family). Also, people are forced to find jobs, even jobs in which they are over-qualified. You aren't trying? you dont get a welfare cheque. When did people get the idea that living of wellfare is easy? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,) Also, that money has to come from somewhere, that means the government has to resort to forceful coercion or stealing. So the government advocates theft towards the rich, but the poor get a free ride on other's money.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I tend to agree with you here. But the rich are hardly 'poorer' from the burden the government places upon them. Hell, I -wish- I would have to pay 50% taxes, because that would mean I would have enough money for 3 cars, 2 houses and a boat. And still drink champange every morning. Hope & Dream

Feb 4, 2004, 07:51 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Venmax Molten Ash Posts: 28	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by When did people get the idea that living of wellfare is easy? <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> You guys are still missing the point. It's not whether or not Welfare is bad - it's about telling the difference between who's using it to better themselves, and who's using it for a free ride. Anybody who's spending what cash they have on booze, or drugs, or walking around in 100 dollar tennis shoes while collecting welfare should be BOOTED from the system. There need to be requirements on what sorts of lifestyle budget choices these people make - I'm not for giving my money away to just anyone you know. People who take government aid, providing they are of able mind and body, should be drug tested and present a monthly budget to the government. The trouble with you jerks is you don't want any personal accountability worked into the system - you claim it's "Oppressive" or "Racist" - HORSESHIT. And it's particularly deplorable when you tie it to Race. Take a look at all the East Asian immigrants that come into this country. They work their ASSES off and have very strong families - they DON'T SUCK UP ALL THE WELFARE. The poor white, black, and hispanics do all that - and they make bad lifestyle budget choices to boot. They need a freaking wake up call. If Hop Sing or Mr. Patel can come here with ZILCH and totally whip ass and live the American dream anyone BORN here should be plenty able to do the same.