Are We Punishing Hard Work?

[Venmax]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Today Americans are not even looking for land<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Oh - and that&#39;s not quite true. We&#39;re currently scoping out the best spots on the moon and mars. :)

[darwinist]

Venmax
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
This is true - and yes I agree that the hard work those people do NEEDS to be rewarded. They need strong Unions just like we have here in Anglo-World. Are YOU gonna go over to India? Or China? Or South America in order to help them start up Unions?

LoL&#33;&#33; I thought not&#33;&#33; I love the way you guys say America throws it&#39;s weight around and intrudes on peoples "Cultures" and then turn around and bitch about how they aren&#39;t enough like us. Make up your freeking mind&#33;&#33; If you aren&#39;t going to get on a plane and go help the workers of the world organize in their home countries (and risk a bullet in the head by the dictators and thugs that run those places) then shut the fuck up and quit blaming us for it&#33;&#33;<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

I have in fact worked with the UN of various projects. To help people in other lands. In the Middle East and North Africa.

So your conclusion is wrong. You normally meant to ask questions and wait for the answers. Not answer them yourself. Second, I am not some guy from America. If you bothered to click on my name and profile. You would see that i am in the Netherlands. So a second mistake on your behalf. I am not blaming anyone. I stated stated the facts of the &#39;global&#39; economy. So all your conclusions are wrong. Perhaps you will "research" your facts better, before &#39;throwing your weight around&#39;. As you put it.

[Anarchist Patriot]

America has always punished hard work, espcially if the workers are poor and disenfranchised.

Case in point, look at the slaves. Did any of them get their 40 acres and a mule?

America has always been a country of freeloading idle rich and poor working folk. And this continues to this day.

[Venmax]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I have in fact worked with the UN of various projects. To help people in other lands. In the Middle East and North Africa.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

And you, sir, are the EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Case in point, look at the slaves. Did any of them get their 40 acres and a mule? <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Your right - that whole Civil War thing that abolished slavery here and eventually led to slavery&#39;s dramatic global decline over the next 150 years was just a big fucking accident.

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
America has always been a country of freeloading idle rich and poor working folk. And this continues to this day. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Again your right - we have no middle class whatsoever. It&#39;s all peoples imagination. They must be dropping acid or something.

[Section 8]

What Socialism lacks is an insentive, if I&#39;m getting all my money, why shouldn&#39;t I just sit on my ass drinking tequila? Also, that money has to come from somewhere, that means the government has to resort to forceful coercion or stealing. So the government advocates theft towards the rich, but the poor get a free ride on other&#39;s money.

[Bayou]

......section 8 would you be ignoring the point that these people get rich of the work of the poor?
The Fabians have a point that at least when they take money, it is used on infrastructure that is utilised by all of the people.
Fabian socialism when implemented to an extreme does reward lazyness to a degree, but it is debatable that the people who are the most wealthy in the system get their through hard work: user fees for small businesses will take away hard worked money compared to a monopoly or brand name that doesnt have to work a tenth as hard to make the equivalent funds.
This is what many small business owners are facing in Alberta, with their so called "business friendly tax system" which in fact preys on the harder working small business owner by charging flat rates that barely dent corporate coffers.
Communisms goal is to replace the monetary system all together :just because past systems have failed (and as NOR has even realised, the NEP was merely excessive fabian socialism manipulating capitalist tools) doesnt mean their isnt a method of incentive that could be impleneted focusing on the work you contribute rather then an arbitrary unit to represent that work.

Heh replaced slavery, right, replaced it with a universal system of slavery that does not discriminate beetween colour called "the minimum wage", lets ignore the fact that the black population still disproportionatley is part of this bottom rung, they now share it with others felled prey to the capitalist fascism (Illegal Immigrants and a marginalised people of the pro capitalist post secondary educational system).

[tusaki]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,)
What Socialism lacks is an insentive, if I&#39;m getting all my money, why shouldn&#39;t I just sit on my ass drinking tequila?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Well, mostly because drinking tequila would be implying you have the money to buy the tequila. And the welfare system is not much. it&#39;s the -bare minimum- under which people can survive (and probably still loan from friends/family).
Also, people are forced to find jobs, even jobs in which they are over-qualified. You aren&#39;t trying? you dont get a welfare cheque.

When did people get the idea that living of wellfare is easy?

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,)
Also, that money has to come from somewhere, that means the government has to resort to forceful coercion or stealing. So the government advocates theft towards the rich, but the poor get a free ride on other&#39;s money.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
I tend to agree with you here. But the rich are hardly &#39;poorer&#39; from the burden the government places upon them. Hell, I -wish- I would have to pay 50% taxes, because that would mean I would have enough money for 3 cars, 2 houses and a boat. And still drink champange every morning.

[Venmax]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
When did people get the idea that living of wellfare is easy?
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

You guys are still missing the point. It&#39;s not whether or not Welfare is bad - it&#39;s about telling the difference between who&#39;s using it to better themselves, and who&#39;s using it for a free ride. Anybody who&#39;s spending what cash they have on booze, or drugs, or walking around in 100 dollar tennis shoes while collecting welfare should be BOOTED from the system. There need to be requirements on what sorts of lifestyle budget choices these people make - I&#39;m not for giving my money away to just anyone you know. People who take government aid, providing they are of able mind and body, should be drug tested and present a monthly budget to the government.

The trouble with you jerks is you don&#39;t want any personal accountability worked into the system - you claim it&#39;s "Oppressive" or "Racist" - HORSESHIT. And it&#39;s particularly deplorable when you tie it to Race. Take a look at all the East Asian immigrants that come into this country. They work their ASSES off and have very strong families - they DON&#39;T SUCK UP ALL THE WELFARE. The poor white, black, and hispanics do all that - and they make bad lifestyle budget choices to boot. They need a freaking wake up call. If Hop Sing or Mr. Patel can come here with ZILCH and totally whip ass and live the American dream anyone BORN here should be plenty able to do the same.

[Bayou]

No Venmax, their you have it wrong, hard working respectable people will drink away their paychecks if their alchoholics: I should know my dads one.
He pays off his bills 1st buys a few groceries and the rest of the money goes to the drink.
You subscribe to a rather tried steoryotype that all welfare recepients are actually alchoholics, I have seen more welpaid hard working people who have never collected welfare that deserve to be called alchoholics then unemployed.
I guess venmax youve never seen the statistics that show a black person with a higher skill level then a white worker applying to the same job, will lose the application to the white worker.
Even on a world wide scale their is racist hegemony, were asians look up to only the whites, while Indians look up to the asians and guess who takes up the bottom rung: the African.
This has more to do with the Africans being used as a slave for such a long period of history.
You point your finger and accuse people of making bad lifestyle choices, when it is the powers that be that reinforce the steoryotypes you spout and keep these people down regardless of how hard they work.
It is in their economic best interest to have a large section of the population desperate enough to work minimum wage, they will try to encourage bad lifestyle choices anyway they can.

[Section 8]

Bayou- First of all, slave is an exageration on your behalf. Do slaves get paid? The one thing preventing small business owners actually all business owners is the state. The state is what steals from you, and forms monolopolies to stifle business.

Also, Venemax, not all welfare recipeints are alchoholics or junkies.

[Venmax]

Bayou - stop trying to make it look like I&#39;m bashing your dad&#33; Drugs and alchohol are only one of the many poor decisions a lot of people make - and they make these decisions FIRST and THEN go for the welfare, not the other way around. If they didn&#39;t throw away all of their money on partying, brand new stereo systems, 100 dollar sneakers, and 1000 dollar tire rims, they wouldn&#39;t be on welfare in the first place. The only exception is that perhaps they are born to parents on welfare - but what are you going to do about that without violating every civil right we have?? Because the truth is the only thing you can do for almost all of the kids in those situations is take them OUT OF IT PERMANENTLY.

People have to become independent at some point. I&#39;ve heard comments like "People who aren&#39;t educated can&#39;t hadle living in a free society" on this board - bullcrap. Education is nice, but did the poor European immigrants have as good an education as us when they came over?? NO. Do the poor East Asian, and Middle Easterners have as good an education as us when they land on our shores?? NO. Education is overated when compared to a strong work ethic and a strong family structure. If all the people on welfare woke up tomorrow with those things poverty would VANISH. And the sad truth is that NO GOVERNMENT PROGRAM CAN INSTILL THOSE THINGS. Can Religion? I don&#39;t know? And at this point I don&#39;t care - I&#39;m simply tired of hearing people make excuses for people that ride the system because for too long because of their negative and lazy outlook on life.

[Suburbanite]

I think that Welfare should have a four year shelf life. Within four years, if you can&#39;t get it together, Welfare stops paying you. Oh wait, that’s already in place.