Is Syria being set-up?

[RickSp]

Observing recent events, I can't help but wonder whether Syria is being set-up or whether the Syrian government is just as dumb as a sack of hammers.

The recent assassination of Rafiq Hariri of Lebanon was hardly in Syria's interest. I find it interesting that immediately following the assassination, the Syrian ambassador went to Hariri's family to express their condolences and deny any involvement. Also immediately afterwards the US pulled its ambassador and blamed Syria even while admitting that they had no evidence for doing so.

A relatively few days latter Syria turned over to the Iraqis Saddam's half brother, Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan, in an atypical good will gesture.

If Syria is being set-up by the US or by the US using Isreal as a proxy, it seems to be working. If Syria did indeed assassinate Harair, then perhaps Bashir Assad should have continued in his chosen field as an ophthalmologist, because as a political strategist he is not too swift.

[bishop]

i wonder if syria really did assassinate that guy..

syria's a great country to focus on now that saddam's gone.. they're neck deep in terrorism and brutalize their own people. baathists run the show similar to how saddam ran his show.. and if you've followed bush's trip to europe, he seems to have the support of at least the french and germans..

bush definitely doesn't like syria after letting thousands pour into iraq after the war began.. and the neocon's popular theory is that saddam's wmd's are in syria.. i think it's obvious that he has syria in the crosshairs, while pushing for "diplomacy" in iran - while we fly our UAV's there every day.

interesting article here: http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=986

[Rob Heilbroner]

From my reading of the Axis of Evil, originally it was Syria, Iran and Iraq, but the authors had to tone it down for it to be acceptable for world opinion, so they substituted Syria with North Korea.

War is a dirty business, Iraq is ample proof. It is much easier if gains can be made using deception. What we are seeing in Lebanon is the prefered route. Syria is saving their hide by getting out of Lebanon. By the end of this year they'll sign a pipeline agreement with Israel. Stranger things have happened.

[MerlinsByte]

BY Rick (excerpt) ...."If Syria is being set-up by the US or by the US using Isreal as a proxy, it seems to be working. If Syria did indeed assassinate Harair, then perhaps Bashir Assad should have continued in his chosen field as an ophthalmologist, because as a political strategist he is not too swift."

__________________


If the middle east are dominos Iraq is the first one, in a long line leading to the end game of the common era .I think that for better or worse the military has learned patience and applied this strategic principle in the middle east. Iraq’s “pacification” wasn’t an ill though out mistake as the media claimed (the media was just as uninformed as we and our troops were). "Who is able to make war with him [the Beast]?" (Rev. 13:4).When the beast is hungry, the beast will eat. Is the "beast" the USA, or as I suspect the reawakened roman empire? (United Europe, the common market). I think that we will make a supreme blunder and reject Israel to join with the common market, and a fatal blunder that would be. Hopefully united Europe the Common Market will have the power it needs to assume the power needed to fulfill prophesy.

I think as long as the USA strategically controls the oil…er ….ahhh…the middle Eastern nations, Syria will not be attacked. However, with world wide demand for crude increasing at > 4% every year (and soon rise quicker than even that un sustainable figure) we will endeavor to own all the middle eastern real estate if not the hearts and minds of the people.

mb



“Control the mind and the heart will follow“….. SOG psyops orientation briefing at
An Thinh , 19seventysomthing

[Mr.Vicchio]

I was gonna respond to this, thinking it was a serious topic with intelligent debate; I.E. did some terrorist group kill Hariri and Syria takes the blame sort of thinking. A reasonable debate.

Instead this is left field tinfoil hat land at it's worst.... "Amazing.. Syria sent an ambassador immediately to teh family of Hariri to say they had no involvement, gee how can we doubt these swell guys?" and the conversation has imploded down the dumb scale from there into somehow pointing fingers at the USA and Bush...

You guys that afraid of what's going on over there? The protesters demanding a free Lebanon? Things unheard of before say... 2003?

[RickSp]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Instead this is left field tinfoil hat land at it's worst.... "Amazing.. Syria sent an ambassador immediately to teh family of Hariri to say they had no involvement, gee how can we doubt these swell guys?" and the conversation has imploded down the dumb scale from there into somehow pointing fingers at the USA and Bush...

So you are posting to say that you see no point in posting? Well that is a great use of bandwidth. Or perhaps you think the mere suggestion that the US or Isreal might get involved in such things is just too unreal even to consider. Nevermind that the US has a long history of overt and covert meddling in the Middle East (not that history is one of the neo-con strong suits.)

[Mr.Vicchio]

I am saying that your theory is unfounded and that you are bringing this up because you cannot accept that, GASP! maybe there is such a thing as evil that doesn't have "Made in the USA" printed on it as so many on here are led to believe. It's all America and Isreals fault in your eyes for the troubles in the middle east? IS taht the basic out look you have?

[rcne]

Since the political power in Syria was passed down from father to son, and he is under the control of the Military, I'd say its entirely possible that he is dumb as a rock.

The tendency in the middle east is to blame everything on the US and Israel. The domino theory is in effect so Syria now has to go to the Saudis and Egypt for support, or options on what they can do to retain the status quo.

They themselves can't help, the domino effect is sweeping their countries also. Elections are coming, and they are trying to consolidate their power to retain control.

The old fall-back adage of blaming the US and Israel no longer works, thanks to the magic media of satellite and Internet.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio I am saying that your theory is unfounded and that you are bringing this up because you cannot accept that, GASP! maybe there is such a thing as evil that doesn't have "Made in the USA" printed on it as so many on here are led to believe. It's all America and Isreals fault in your eyes for the troubles in the middle east? IS taht the basic out look you have?

You seem not to have bothered to read the post.

I raised two possibilities - that either Syria had been set up or that it was acting stupidly. I don't know which is the case. I don't think given the US's history in the region, including involvement in several coups, that it is out of line to suggest the first possibilty but I have no evidence to support either contention.

You, of course, with your kneejerk name-calling nationalism seem to think that even raising the question is an attack on America. I don't happen to think that America is evil as you so readily characterize any deviation from the party line. I raised two possiblities for discussion and you respond with your typical thoughtless vitriol. I'm sure you can do better but I am not holding my breath.

[Mr.Vicchio]

You raised two possibilities..

1. the Syrians are dumb as doornails. (how then are they being set up if they did this I ask?)

2. America/Isreal did this. (the only "set up" possible in your original posting)

I brought forth a real possiblilty that could actually happen over there, I.E. an outside of government control terrorist group killed Hariri, but then when it was clear the move was bad bad ju ju for thier cause, let's syria take the blame instead of incurring the wrath of the people.

[Gorgo]

Mr. Vicchio would rather believe known criminals and liars like George Bush without question.

There is strong evidence that Iraq was set up. There is strong evidence that Afghanistan was set up, there is strong evidence that the United States is a rogue state, and always has been.

There is no question that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, as I've laid out many times here before. Why would this dear man continue to believe these criminals without question?

[Paavo]

Syria is being set-up by the US or by the US using Isreal as a proxy...

Or the other way around?

Nevermind that the US has a long history of overt and covert meddling in the Middle East (not that history is one of the neo-con strong suits.)

Indeed.

The reason I can't take, for example, Vicchio's defense for the US/Israel axis seriously is that you'd have to zoom in on all kinds of details and blind yourself from the very evident large picture.
Israel yields huge power over the US, this is childishly simple to see -- the US is Israel's only ally! The US governments have been in the grip of pro-Israel people (dare I say "Zionists?") for years, if not decades. Do people really use amazing double-think in order to not notice that and connect a few dots?

It's all America and Isreals fault in your eyes for the troubles in the middle east? IS taht the basic out look you have?

"The troubles?"
Well, if not Israel's and the US's, then whose, exactly?
America didn't have enemies in the ME before she started to fund Israel militarily and diplomatically, did she?

Who's "right," Israel or the rest of the ME is another thing, but it's just silly to pretend not to know the root to the problems IMO.

...There is strong evidence that Iraq was set up. There is strong evidence that Afghanistan was set up...

Yes, and I'm sure that in time, after Syria and Iran are "liberated," we'll find that they were set up as well. Hey, why ruin the party while there's still drinks left?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Wow anti-isreali biogots as moderator... wow..

Break time from Volconvo for a while for me... I can't handle the tinfoil hat hate anymore.

Good luck sean with your atttmept to make volconvo somewhere peopel want to debate issues with facts instead of absurd claims and hate... big uphill road from the looks of the last tow posts above this one...

Wow staggers the mind how ignorance flourishes in this world.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Wow anti-isreali biogots as moderator... wow.. Break time from Volconvo for a while for me... I can't handle the tinfoil hat hate anymore. Good luck sean with your atttmept to make volconvo somewhere peopel want to debate issues with facts instead of absurd claims and hate... big uphill road from the looks of the last tow posts above this one... Wow staggers the mind how ignorance flourishes in this world.

Those are big claims from someone who also exhibit the same characters but in a much more polarised fashion. Leave if you want, no one is forcing you to stay and I don't think many will care either.

[Matt W]

Indeed.

Let's try and drag this back to 'Was Syria set up?', shall we?

Things that we know:

Syria sponsors terrorism - specifically Hezbollah, various groups operating within Lebanon, and was/is being used as a base for Iraqi insurgents.

Rafik Hariri was an opponent of Syrian intervention within Lebanon, but had several enemies due to both his politics & business activities.

The US has long had Syria on it's 'hotlist', as it were, of states that it has a problem with.

Syria has a somewhat fragmented power structure - it's not as clean-cut & simple as just 'Syria wouldn't do this' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4314787.stm

So...that's a few bits & bobs that could be considered 'relevant' to the original discussion.

My personal opinion? I think that it's likely a pro-Syrian group (if not Syria itself) killed Hariri. However, they grossly underestimated the Lebanese people's feelings and the US & Israels' ability to make political capital out of his death. People make these mistakes all the time - and as a result, Arab 'unity' is slowly fragmenting.

[Gorgo]

The problem is, we know how the U.S. operates. With their history, it would be difficult to believe anything that comes out of the State Department. If they had a better history, things might be different.

[bishop]

reports that i've read (like the one i linked) are suggesting that syria's moving a lot of small arms into lebanon - as their military slowly withdraws. i'm not so well-versed in syrian affairs, but i'd assume that they have some sort of fedahyeen to control the public with.

why would syria assassinate that guy? i don't think the syrians are that stupid to be honest.. despite the information about terrorists and the people they've turned over to us, we've honored those good faith measures with sanctions and very heated rhetoric. nevertheless, they've continued making those good faith gestures, hoping that they can normalize relations. personally, i think that was their primary blunder since they would never be viewed favorably, so long as we're israel's lackey. i also agree with rob that syria was originally intended to be on the axis of evil list. (it really doesn't matter who's on that list though, so long as bush calls them evil and his merry followers follow in lockstep)

let's say that syria did assassinate that guy... is that justification for us to invade another country?

[RickSp]

The willingness of the Arab states to immediately blame Isreal for anything that happens in the region is manifestly stupid. So is the propensity of many Americans to immediately excuse Isreal for anything that happens. Blind hatred and blind loyalty are equally reprehensible.

It may well be that a lower level operative working for any of the parties in question took it upon himself to undertake the operation. The assassination of Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand was not orchestrated by any of the major states yet is credited for starting WWI.

[Matt W]

Gorgo, we also know how Syria operate. To be fair, I'd marginally trust the State Department over them.

Bishop - Syria have often locked up/tortured/killed opponents of their regime - hell, the Druze opposition leader hasn't left his 'home' (which is practically a fortress) for fear of assassination by pro-Syrian elements for quite some time! I'm not saying the Syrians are stupid, but I am saying that it's conceivable that they thought the killing of a minor Middle Eastern politician would be overlooked. However, the street protests weren't.

At the present time, no-one's talking about invasion. However, Syria do occupy significant parts of Lebanon - and have several UN resolutions about this outstanding against them. Using this, you could easily build a case (based on the current mood) for war within the UN, and it would be a far stronger case than that used against Iraq. The assassination is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Gorgo]

Matt, we know what the State Department and the State Department-fed media tells us about Syria's activities.