palestine conflict

[cheesenuggett]

when it comes to palestine, i am on the side of the palestinians, i feel that when the british allowed immigration to palestine, they were letting it get take over by the isreali's.
if you ever happen to go to the sundance festival, there will be many movies on the conflict, and i recommend watching them

what is your stance on it?

[bishop]

i'm not about to take a side, because at any random day in the news, you can find reasons to support the israelis and reasons to support the palestinians - i.e. they're both violent fools.

i do believe that there's more of a chance now that arafat's dead and abbas has been elected p.m.. and in other reports i've read, there's a certain chief of the interior (the name begins with a "d" i believe") who has been laying down the law in gaza - forming his own assassination squads to take out fatah/hamas officers who resist abbas's rule. finally some real action being taken against those terrorists who won't accept negotiation/peace/anything..


and against this backdrop:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/...ion/index.html

i'm glad that sharon has decided to wait and allow the palestinians to take action themselves - rather than another tit-for-tat incursion.


and for their part, the israelis need to hurry up and dismantle the settlements.

[cheesenuggett]

good point, i really hope some good comes out of the death of arafat, and i hope sharon is sincere about his intentions to end the conflict and have (at least some, the war will never end) peace...

[Paavo]

... i feel that when the british allowed immigration to palestine, they were letting it get take over by the isreali's.

Well, yes.



"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

That's something they've held on to... *rolls eyes*

The whole Balfour Declaration was a product of the Zionist movement's promise to the British that they'd use their influence on American Jewry to get the US into the war on Britain's side. It's been an unlawful and shitty deal all around for the Palestinians IMO. I've never really understood why some people are so furiously pro-Israel, how do they justify their stance - objectively?

[Gorgo]

Yes, if you don't take sides, then you're on the side of the oppressor, which are the zionist politicians. The Jew and Palestinian on the street couldn't have cared less about starting wars had it not been for the anti-Arab Jews.

http://www.zmag.org/shalom-meqa.htm

[bishop]

Yes, if you don't take sides, then you're on the side of the oppressor, which are the zionist politicians.

quite the oxymoron right there... if you don't take sides, somehow you are taking a side??

[cheesenuggett]

Quote by: Paavo Well, yes. "...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..." That's something they've held on to... *rolls eyes* The whole Balfour Declaration was a product of the Zionist movement's promise to the British that they'd use their influence on American Jewry to get the US into the war on Britain's side. It's been an unlawful and shitty deal all around for the Palestinians IMO. I've never really understood why some people are so furiously pro-Israel, how do they justify their stance - objectively?

i dont see how they stand by that either, i dont get their stance when they say they were promised a homeland.

not only did they steal the land from the palestinians, but their goal is to end them, i dont know where, its in a book i have, it has a quote from someone high up in the govt and it says "i will not be satisfied until all of the palestinians are gone" or something along those lines, ill try and find it

but it makes me sick

also, your guys are pretty smart, you know about king fasil and all the arabs joining to end isreal, but then america stood by the isrealis and they won, i feel like the allied forces just dont want arabs on this earth at all.

[Gorgo]

Would that be an oxymoron or just a contradiction?

Anyway, this is a good point. I'll have to ponder that.

Quote by: bishop quite the oxymoron right there... if you don't take sides, somehow you are taking a side??

[bishop]

Would that be an oxymoron or just a contradiction?

same thing duder..

[cheesenuggett]

lol, yes, and oxymoron is like box shaped circles, a contradiction would be the same thing, but normally used to explain a sentance

[mistyflip770]

I think their is a big problem with the Palestinian Government the bigest one being that Hamas and other terrorist groups are actually apart ofthe government, this Dose not make the Palestinian government look verry credible being that they have recognized terrorist factions as part of their government, these are people the kill inisant people in the name of their G-d and they are part of running a country, i think it's a joke and it is unacceptable.

[Mia]

Quote by: cheesenuggett good point, i really hope some good comes out of the death of arafat, and i hope sharon is sincere about his intentions to end the conflict and have (at least some, the war will never end) peace...

Oh, I'm sure he wants to end the conflict, but enough to give on any, much less enough, crucial issues? That is the question. Bishop had encouraging news from the other side - I stopped following it for a while - I'm too impassioned about it and it makes me nuts all the BS from both sides.

Sharon hasn't stopped his wall. NOT encouraging. Or the settlements, also NOT encouraging. So we'll see.

Even though I lean toward the Palestinians' side in present-day circumstances, I came to the conclusion that they'd HAVE to take the higher road and end ALL terrorist attacks. So that if Sharon follows the lead, great! If not, at least the one who won't allow peace is known for sure and then maybe international pressure can take over in the right spot.

[Nono]

On Gaza at any rate, Sharon appears to have burnt so many bridges that there's no way he can go back. That at least is something, and the proof is the flack he's got from the ultra-crazies.

Sharon ain't lovable, but then no viable deal could ever be worked out by lovable negotiating partners. It has to be done by the real hard-asses.

[Livemike]

Quote by: mistyflip770 I think their is a big problem with the Palestinian Government the bigest one being that Hamas and other terrorist groups are actually apart ofthe government, this Dose not make the Palestinian government look verry credible being that they have recognized terrorist factions as part of their government,

What less credible than having a known war criminal as their head of state?

Quote by: mistyflip770 these are people the kill inisant people in the name of their G-d and they are part of running a country, i think it's a joke and it is unacceptable.

[mistyflip770]

Firstly Sharon is not a war criminal, he was a war hero if it was not for him the jewish people may not have a state to call their own today a state which was rightfully given to the chosen people by G-d himself. After 6 million jews were slaughterd in the holocaust naturally they decided to return to their homeland where they could put an end to their persecution.

How can you call Sharon a war criminal when Abdel-Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini, born in Cairo, Egypt, was a career killer. He was chief of the PLO, through which he planned and carried out massacres, bombings, plane hijackings, drive-by shootings, and most recently the “intifada” of suicide bombers in Israel. His victims number in the thousands, including not only Israelis and other Arabs, but Westerners, including Americans. The PLO allied itself with Hamas and Islamic Jihad, two other terrorist gangs.

Now that Abas is in power he still dose not agree to dismantling Terrorist groups such as Hamas, maybe he wants them to be in power or perhaps they have more authority and might than Abas? The fact that they are part of the government is unacceptable.

[fushigi]

Quote by: mistyflip770 How can you call Sharon a war criminal when Abdel-Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini, born in Cairo, Egypt, was a career killer.

Hey! I'm going to try that defense next time I'm tried for murder. "Your honor, maybe I did end the lives of those five people, but how can you accuse me of murder when you know full well that Jeffrey Dahmer killed 19 people!?"

Normally, when you want to defend someone, you prove that the other side's argument is false, or at least that the contrapositive to his argument is true.

Now that Abas is in power he still dose not agree to dismantling Terrorist groups such as Hamas, maybe he wants them to be in power or perhaps they have more authority and might than Abas? The fact that they are part of the government is unacceptable.

I'll give you an example by dismantling this argument of yours. It's overly hasty zionists like you who could be the biggest danger to the Israel-Palestine peace process. You harp on Abbas for his failures while completely ignoring his successes and the situation he's in. If you think the reason he hasn't agreed to dismantling Hamas because they're too powerful, you're right. It would be like Gerry Adams saying he was going to dismantle the IRA - stupid and pointless. The only thing that would get Abbas is killed.

However, look at what he has done: packed the Palestinian cabinet with moderates and technocrats; gotten an agreement from 13 militant Palestinian groups to halt attacks for the rest of the year; deployed 3,000 troops in northern Gaza to halt rocket attacks on Israel, and prevented as many attacks on Israel as its own security forces have.

And he has only been president for three months. Give the guy some frigging credit, for Elohim's sake!

[Mia]

Quote by: mistyflip770 Firstly Sharon is not a war criminal, he was a war hero if it was not for him the jewish people may not have a state to call their own today a state which was rightfully given to the chosen people by G-d himself. After 6 million jews were slaughterd in the holocaust naturally they decided to return to their homeland where they could put an end to their persecution. How can you call Sharon a war criminal when Abdel-Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini, born in Cairo, Egypt, was a career killer. He was chief of the PLO, through which he planned and carried out massacres, bombings, plane hijackings, drive-by shootings, and most recently the “intifada” of suicide bombers in Israel. His victims number in the thousands, including not only Israelis and other Arabs, but Westerners, including Americans. The PLO allied itself with Hamas and Islamic Jihad, two other terrorist gangs. Now that Abas is in power he still dose not agree to dismantling Terrorist groups such as Hamas, maybe he wants them to be in power or perhaps they have more authority and might than Abas? The fact that they are part of the government is unacceptable.

He allowed the slaughter of hundreds in a refugee camp by a rival faction in Lebanon during the occupation. This is only one of his many war crimes.

[Nono]

The term "war criminal" isn't a rhetorical device. It has a precise definition in law. And if the shoe fits, wear it.