US Faith vs European pragmatism - a divider?

[Matt W]

A brief article from the BBC, comparing & contrasting the increasingly differing world-views of the US & Europe. Can anyone offer up any other thoughts? Say, for example, the views of Asia, S.America & Africa?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/4276545.stm

And, of course, how accurate do you think the author is?

[Nono]

Sure it's a divider. And I like the author's apparent disctinction between faith and actual Christianity, since very few of the Americans I know who profess to be Christians practise anything approaching what I understand to be the teachings of Jesus Christ. They go to church, yeah, but they don't love their neighbours as themselves, let alone a buncha nigras and ayrabs.

It's a sex-obsessed society that screams in horror when a breast is shown on TV.

I don't know how pragmatic Europeans really are, but Americans (with the usual honourable exceptions) definitely do believe in magic.

[Gorgo]

I think it's interesting to see someone in another culture notice this 'thing', whatever it is, in Americans (myself included). Something like over half of them believe in Satan (which means they're always taking sides in a battle between good and evil), and a similar percentage believe the world is less than 10,000 years old.

[Nono]

Well, that's what I find so objectionable. So many people have no trouble at all believing absolute rubbish (e.g. earth less than 10,000 years old) since it demands no effort of them. But apply and live by the Golden Rule as laid down in the Christian scriptures? You gotta be kidding me!!

[hkp126]

Very controversial, Americans and Europeans, this subject maybe - George Bush trying his damnedest to influence the European Union countries into believing something that is not.(see how I do not mention one particular subject)
The British, myself included, do not like the American attitude towards anything, because we are a reserved culture, that does not mean we dislike Americans, it simply means Logic should out weigh instinct

[hkp126]

we as a nation MUST, and should learn from previous conflicts, British conflicts included.
Terrorism is born out of belief from dictators, dictators who have no means of real power and influence, dictators who are hell bent on destroying civilisation and who are oppressed to conformity.
Hitler was a prime example of this regime and if it were not for the allied troops believing in humanity, then Hitler would have succeeded.
Hitlers regime was thought and still is considered a mark of genius, How can this be?
A thousand years from now there peace would still be sought and not found

[Sasha]

I think if we were to look at the mainstream part of eather society we would find that they are largely the same. Sure Americans may believe Evil is something that must be rid from the world. Europeans belive largely the same thing, they just call that evil, Aids, social disparity among a plethora of other titles, it doesnt make the US wrong, as a matter of fact it just shows they are right.
I think the most telling part of the article was at the end when the author admitted he drove a gas guzzling "tank" when he was in the USA. If he was as socialist as he likes to portray himself, he would have rented a smaller more efficient car, apparently his environmental values didnt cross the atlantic with him. I dont mean to critize the authors choices only to point out that if the two sides of the atlantic were as different as he seems to think he likely would never have gone to Denver and having gone their would have retained some of the important social distinctions that he seems so sure exist.

As a side not I don't think Denver is the most liberal part of America, so he also only saw one part of a diverse nation.

[Gorgo]

Well, I'm sure that Europeans are no better than Americans, just different.

There are fantasies other than religious ones as well.

[tman_ndsu08]

Personally, I don't like how Christian morals have infected our country (the US). I wish Americans would be more tolerant of different ideas.

[bishop]

ditto that..

something that's completely ignored in that article, and most articles talking about the trans-atlantic "alliance" is the geopolitical side of the issue. do the majority of europeans like living in a world where u.s. policy dominates the entire planet? i doubt it. europeans, just like those in asia, south america, etc., want to see a multilateral world. for europe, a multilateral world would give the EU greater power than it currently has, and europe can escape from the u.s.'s shadow.

we are increasingly at odds with europe. religion, abortion, the death penalty, how we treat our poor, how we treat workers, attitudes towards the environment, etc... these are some fundamental differences. sure, they love democracy. so too do the japanese.


one other point/example is that the EU is about to abolish its ban on selling china military equipment - something we oppose because of our support for taiwan.

[Catch 22]

one other point/example is that the EU is about to abolish its ban on selling china military equipment - something we oppose because of our support for taiwan.

I find this rather interesting, the EU is supposed to be an organization dedicated to the expansion of human rights and political rights. All we hear from the EU in public is something about the “violation of human rights in x region”. Yet here they are making it OK to sell weapons to one of the most repressive regimes in the world. So repressive that china ranks number one worldwide in state sponsored executions.

[bishop]

well, we are the main reasons why china's economy has been able to grow as much as it has. we pushed for market expansion and capital movement (from the developed world into china), and we completely ignored human rights concerns. so europe's showing its hypocritical colors as well. what that just affirms to me is europe's desire to live in a multipolar world where we don't run the show anymore. as these events continue to unfold, throughout the world, i think it will become increasingly obvious that this is true.

public opinion in europe suggests that there's a lot of support for multipolarity.


the arguments about u.s. faith and european pragmatism are largely rhetorical ploys. both sides can be exposed as hypocrites. at the end of the day, it's whether/not we're to continue living in a multipolar world.

[Chris the Chees]

Personally I am always shocked, and to some extent, amused by the blind faith which exists within American society, and the complete rejection of alternative ideals. I believe it leads Americans to have far less progressive attitudes towards many issues.

The political boundaries in American politics are also odd. For example if you ask a hardened conservative if the democrats are leftists, in my experience, 9 times out of 10 they will not even hesitate in declaring that the "demoncrats" [sic] are blind leftists. Living in the Europe, where we have a different perspective I can guarantee that the democrats are not remotely left wing. They are right wing, but just to a lesser extent than the republicans.

[Gorgo]

Yes, Bush is off the charts right wing extremism. Clinton was an almost reasonable right-winger.

[davidb]

The BBC author missed the point of the controversy over Private Ryan, the false story that our defense department told. In fact, someone on the BBC was among the first to uncover this.

Yes, we have our share of yahoos, and the Bush forces attracted enough of them to win the last election. (I am not saying that all voters for Bush are yahoos.)

[allen]

Quote by: Catch 22 Yet here they are making it OK to sell weapons to one of the most repressive regimes in the world. So repressive that china ranks number one worldwide in state sponsored executions.

Please make China the second. The largest military machine in the world has been busy killing people in the last 50 years, what do you call it? national terrorism.

[Catch 22]

well, we are the main reasons why china's economy has been able to grow as much as it has. we pushed for market expansion and capital movement (from the developed world into china), and we completely ignored human rights concerns. so europe's showing its hypocritical colors as well. what that just affirms to me is europe's desire to live in a multipolar world where we don't run the show anymore. as these events continue to unfold, throughout the world, i think it will become increasingly obvious that this is true.

Yes that’s my exact feeling. Neither Europe nor the USA are really that different, both merely represent unique sides of the capitalist/imperialist coin. Neither region truly wishes for anything fundamental to cahnge in the order of things but simply wants to go about it’s business of control in a different manner.

[bishop]

couldn't agree more.. the vocal disagreement with our society and its presumed values is just a smoke screen.. europe has a long heritage of treating the rest of the world like shit. i like those old stories of how the brits would take trips to australia and hunt the natives. the heart of western civilization indeed.

the winds of power are definitely blowing. imo, the EU is eager to form relationships with the middle east and asia. they should use the nearly-universal anti-american sentiment to their advantage. if i were running the show in europe, i'd be exploiting our weaknesses as well.

[Catch 22]

hehe yes. Europe’s new dedication to human rights just sounds like an attempt at political point scoring with the world as it positions itself to supercede us power and influence. Most telling is that strength of the euro and the eu cnetral bank’s refusal to slow down it’s growth against the dollar. They might as well come out publicly and say “yes we want the world’s oil producers to switch wholly over to the euro so that the dollar completely tanks”

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: bishop something that's completely ignored in that article, and most articles talking about the trans-atlantic "alliance" is the geopolitical side of the issue. do the majority of europeans like living in a world where u.s. policy dominates the entire planet? i doubt it. europeans, just like those in asia, south america, etc., want to see a multilateral world. for europe, a multilateral world would give the EU greater power than it currently has, and europe can escape from the u.s.'s shadow.

Regardless of whether most Europeans like living in a world where the United States is the dominant influence, they have only themselves to blame for it.

The main reason the U.S. is such a dominant force today is that, in the first half of the 20th century, my ancestors had to save a bunch of petty bickering nations approximately the size of a postage stamp from destroying each other not once, but TWICE.

Our global dominance is due to two generations of our citizens picking up arms and traveling across half the globe , often dying, to preserve Europe's liberty. Then, to top it all off, we formed organizations committed to making sure we'd never get that call again (quick, name the only two NATO countries not in Europe).

If Europeans are sick of the United States being a nanny, they should tell their leaders to stop acting like they need one.