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PatC · Jan 28, 2004, 03:46 am

First off, I have'nt read any of his books, i check out his website about 2-3 times a week. From this at least, why Michale Moore seem to think hes smarter than everyone else? He consistently criticizes the government and Bush and does not give him credit on anything and points out his faults in leadership. I have yet to hear Michael Moore offer any sort of solution or alternative to the war in Iraq or other issues besides "Bush f*cked up". Is he capable of forming an inteligent and rational opinion? He states facts about Iraq supporting his own anti-war view that often contradict with the work of others (such as Kenneth Pollack). If you have read either of his books let me know what you think, hopefully im wrong

FC Mellon · Jan 28, 2004, 09:03 am

PatC...you would be amazed at the ways some 'Stupid White Men' try to sell a book.
Remember that Republican who worked as the Secretary of Defense for a Democrat President who once said: "Helping others to be wrong is a cheap and childish method for trying to gain a feeling of superiority".
...I guess we all enjoy feeling superior once in a while..hee hee...though I still am searching for that feeling...just another Stupid White Man here. 8?(
p.s. ..oh yeah..I forgot...Robert 'Strange' McNamara 8?O

Paavo · Jan 28, 2004, 09:50 am

He does come off very agressive and maybe, as you said, egoistic.
I've read "Stupid white men" and am now reading (almost done) "Dude, where's my country", and even though one is to read them 'through a filter', they're really funny and entertaining. Also, there's alot of talking about him lying in his books, but I think the message he's trying to get through to the US public is a good one (even if there are some figures twisted, haven't seen any "real" lies there yet).
I think Michael Moore is a blessing to the US, with him being the average Joe with truly good values, and the skills to get through to normal people. And he does come with solutions to everything he criticizes, more or less serious.
No matter where you stand politically, I think everyone should read those two books. If for nothing else, just for the pure hilarity of them. : )

FC Mellon · Jan 28, 2004, 10:03 am

Paavo wrote: "I think Michael Moore is a blessing to the US, with him being the average Joe with truly good values, and the skills to get through to normal people. And he does come with solutions to everything he criticizes, more or less serious.
No matter where you stand politically, I think everyone should read those two books. If for nothing else, just for the pure hilarity of them. : ) "

I totally agree with the above....no matter everyone's politics...every 'one' should read what Moore has to say. There are many cogent points in 'his depiction of reality'. Though I disagree with Paavo's rendition of Moore being 'the average Joe'...imho...'Moore' is 'anything but average'..even though he enjoy the appearance of such. The man is quite intelligent/well read/political/confident/etc.....though 'imo' not necessarily correct with everything he has put to pen...oh and did I mention..'quite rich now' }?}
...but I still look at him just as I look at myself...just another 'fat white dude'...who 'needs to shed some of his bias' so he doesn't look so unhealthy to others...especially if he wants them to 'get it'...that is...what 'he gets'.
8?O

castille · Jan 29, 2004, 07:19 am

Michael Moore is like George Bush, except with a different ideology.

People like Moore are the doomsayers of the world; they've got all the criticism, and no solutions.

"The world is fucked up! Yeah duuuuude! Lets go smoke weed! Cuz I dont have any no answers to this fucked up world!!!!"

Paavo · Jan 29, 2004, 01:34 pm

Have you read his books, Castille? He does come with a solution to everything he criticizes, even if in a humorous manner sometimes.
I'm not going to argue for Michael Moore, but I do think that he has better values than the ones in charge right now. That alone should be reason enough to give the man some credit.
I'm just saying that he's not a guy screaming that everything's fucked up without coming with answers how to fix things.

FC Mellon · Jan 29, 2004, 03:07 pm

Once on my second day at work with this new company...I had a boss who said to me when I pointed out something wrong with a very large project..and he said: "Don't point out anything wrong with what we have built if you don't have a solution"....I replied: "oh..so If I see your house on fire and I don't have a best/handy solution with how to put the fire out I should just keep my mouth shut and walk away"...he got my point!....oh and I got a promotion with my 'solution' I presented somewhat later. 8?)
So imho...it is ok to point out things which might be handled in a more efficient/proper way without necessarily having a ready solution. Sometimes the professionals are too close to the problem to see the errors of their ways s..but are able/willing to accept 'constructive criticism'..especially is they are not too immature.
Personally I am not too fond of M. Moore...but I will still listen to him or anyone else who might be able to show 'US' the errors of our ways...provided their analysis appears to be somewhat cogent.

JustinGilmore · Jan 30, 2004, 01:05 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PatC,)
First off, I have'nt read any of his books, i check out his website about 2-3 times a week. From this at least, why Michale Moore seem to think hes smarter than everyone else? He consistently criticizes the government and Bush and does not give him credit on anything and points out his faults in leadership. I have yet to hear Michael Moore offer any sort of solution or alternative to the war in Iraq or other issues besides "Bush f*cked up". Is he capable of forming an inteligent and rational opinion? He states facts about Iraq supporting his own anti-war view that often contradict with the work of others (such as Kenneth Pollack). If you have read either of his books let me know what you think, hopefully im wrong<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
You're wrong, his books are well put, and are sound when it comes to facts. The simple truth is that Bush has really pulled a fast one on the American citizens. It's actully shamefull, and disgusting. The "Liberal" media(which isn't even liberal at all), the stolen election, the president who went AWOL, the president who lied about WMD's. My point is that there is PLENTY of evidence backing Moores statments, esp in contrast to Bush's statments. Bush's lies make Moore look genius (which he is, anyways).

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Michael Moore is like George Bush, except with a different ideology.

People like Moore are the doomsayers of the world; they've got all the criticism, and no solutions.

"The world is fucked up! Yeah duuuuude! Lets go smoke weed! Cuz I dont have any no answers to this fucked up world!!!!" <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

We'll Moore at no point has ever just said "duuuude the world if fkd up." For example, in one of his books (i forgot which one, probably Stupid White Men) he had an open statment on how we can fix the israli/palistine problem. Also, it's people like Moore who actully help change happen, which by the looks of your post is something that you do not want. It's actully quite a shame that people don't have strong opinons like Moore, and I do wish they had them. It would be a better world if people would have their own ideals rather the ones that are force fed to them via biast TV analysists.

Moore is someone that America needs at this moment. Look at how well the Bush propaganda has worked, there is litterly NO oppisition in the media, the control which the administration has on it is insane. Before 9/11 no one would have sided with Bush (current Bush). 9/11 has drasitcally changed our country, we're living in fear-and this is permitting Bush to do whatever he pleases really. I'm glad there is a popular person who has stood up against his agenda, todays Bush prays off xenophobia and overmanipulates facts and all the wile puts us in a 1 trillion doller deficit...and people want to re-elect him? Know why? Propaganda. I'm glad there is substantual oppsition to Bush, and even if I do not agree with Moore 100% of the time, I still give him my reguards.

PS. Moore's usually right anyways :)

PatC · Jan 30, 2004, 01:40 am

Michael Moore admits he never graduated from college, and continually states that the U.S. went to war based on ficticous evidence that Iraq has or at one time possesed WMDs. Ken Pollack, (BA Yale, PhD MIT, Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institute, and Director of Saban Center for Middle East Policy) in his book The Threatening Storm (written before Gulf War II) states that they will be found and lays out the possibilities of what may have happened to them ( sold to syria, n. korea, al queda, destroyed to discredit Bush, etc.) Someone explain to me how Michael Moore can be so certain. Yes WMDs have not been found, but they were there in the 1980s all you have to do is ask any Kurd or Iranian. When you have free time read The Threatening Storm, wheather you agree or not

blibbka · Jan 30, 2004, 10:12 pm

He makes some good points and the world is a better place for his output, but he does have a leaning towards hyperbole that annoys me sometimes.

Michael Moore took a bit of a battering in my opinions when I saw an edition of Question Time (UK political debate programme) with him as a panelist and he spent the show mainly interrupting other panelists whose opinions didn't mathc his. Started the show laughing with him but ended it wishing he'ld shut up and let someone else make a point un-interrupted.

castille · Jan 31, 2004, 11:23 am

I've read most books by Moore (usually I just read the middle chapters, since the rest is crap). And stupid white men is....well stupid. No, its worse than stupid.

He doesn't present solutions. The only "solutions" he presents are simplistic and idiotic. He doesn't even take basic economics into account! Where did he get his economics education? Oh wait, he doesnt even have an education.

Of course, Moore has no credibility. He has a video camera. I can make a story about America conquering the world under Adolf Hitler II with a video camera. Has he spoken to the national leaders of the world powers? Has he spoken to ANY national leader?

He reminds me of a Christian....points out the moral faults of the world, but doesnt bother solving it.

"Oh lets just hold hands and pray...." -Except he uses other words for pray.

Rather no solution than an idiot's solution.

zorgasm · Feb 9, 2004, 10:34 pm

In my English Literature class a few days ago, a passage from 'Stupid White Men' was read. So I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

I really respect and admire Moore's work, I own stupid white men, I've seen a couple of his movies (Roger & Me, Bowling for C-bine). However to me, it seems that he tends to skew figures and data in order to prove his point. He presents a lot of irrelevant facts & figures that are simply for shock value. He fails to present an alternative point of view to his own, and this seems one of his weaknesses as a filmmaker and and author. His work would fare well as a persuasive essay, however for artistic merit he fails to dig deeper; he seems caught up in his own beliefs.

Has anyone read "Dude, where's my country?"?? I'm wondering if it's worth picking up. Despite Moore's usual bias and faults, I'd like to see what he has to offer in his latest release.

PatC · Feb 10, 2004, 03:07 am

Does anyone ever read Tom Friedman's column in the New York Times? He has a very creative and unique outlook. Being a republican (most likey will not be for long) I am often surprised and occasionally pissed off by mostly everything liberals put out. Yet Friedman is one of the most insightful and intelligent writers i have read. He states his opinion, then backs it up with facts or reasonable argument. He criticizes the Bush admistration, then offers a solution. And even sometimes praises Bush for some of his actions. Friedman has writen 3 books, i have read 1 1/2. I often wonder why he is not a more central figure in the media, and is often overlooked by the like of Michael Moore and others. More and more i am convinced that Michael Moore is proped up by the liberal media, given too much praise, all to advance their own opinions.

Suburbanite · Feb 10, 2004, 03:19 am

Why the hell would a liberal, former Green Party member, write a book that gave credit to Bush? Perhaps for the same reason Hannity's book didn't give any credit to Clinton? Because it is POLITICS!!! C'mon, what a dumb question. I don't watch Fox News when I want to hear about the problems in Iraq, and I didn't read Michael Moore's Stupid White Men to read about Bush's good qualities (I tried to think of an example, but as you can see I came up short. Fox News isn't convincing enough I guess).

FreedomFirst · Feb 10, 2004, 10:46 am

The problem with Michael Moore is that he is considered by many to be a documentarian, when in fact he is anything but. There were lists of data going around about his latest movie, and I've seen some about his older works as well. It's fine and dandy that this guy wants to make political movies, but to call them documentaries implies a certain neutrality that simply is not present in his filmmaking. It also implies a level of truth that is not present.

Bragar · Feb 10, 2004, 10:55 am

moore is an ideology driven moron. His work is neither documentary nor is it factual-it's fiction. He is propped up by the liberal establishment thus his Academy Award for that pathetic piece of fantasy he put out a year or two ago.

I encourge anyone interested in accuracy to seek out other sources apart from the national media. They are overtly liberal and they produce tools like michael more. The far east and west coasts are populated with extream liberals. They have a goal to rip tradition from this country and force their twisted POV on mainstream America. That's why they fear and hate George Bush so dramatically. He is the obstical they face to restructuring our country. moore is one of the more extream liberals and thus one of the flag bearers of the liberal cause.

Views too far left or right are damaging to the nation.

RebelWithanAK · Feb 10, 2004, 02:33 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Bragar,)
moore is an ideology driven moron.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

As compared to you. At least he's an idealist.

Suburbanite · Feb 10, 2004, 06:39 pm

1. I think Moore is a tool also, and discredits liberals
2. However, he called his movie a Mockumentary and only the Academy Awards called it a Documentary.

Atomica · Feb 10, 2004, 08:23 pm

"Dude, where's my country?"

Dude, it's like in Cuba?

Michael Moron needs to get a clue. Evidently he has a very low IQ not tomention he is a terrorist-appeasing communist traitor without whom we would be better off.

Atomica · Feb 10, 2004, 08:24 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Bragar,)
moore is an ideology driven moron.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

As compared to you. At least he's an idealist.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

The problem with idealists is they start out with good intentions and they turn into bad trainwrecks. Look at the "War On Poverty" as a good example.

Jan 28, 2004, 03:46 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
PatC Molten Ash Location: Boston Posts: 109	First off, I have'nt read any of his books, i check out his website about 2-3 times a week. From this at least, why Michale Moore seem to think hes smarter than everyone else? He consistently criticizes the government and Bush and does not give him credit on anything and points out his faults in leadership. I have yet to hear Michael Moore offer any sort of solution or alternative to the war in Iraq or other issues besides "Bush f*cked up". Is he capable of forming an inteligent and rational opinion? He states facts about Iraq supporting his own anti-war view that often contradict with the work of others (such as Kenneth Pollack). If you have read either of his books let me know what you think, hopefully im wrong We're looking at the world through the barrel of a gun, are we ready?

Jan 29, 2004, 07:19 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Michael Moore is like George Bush, except with a different ideology. People like Moore are the doomsayers of the world; they've got all the criticism, and no solutions. "The world is fucked up! Yeah duuuuude! Lets go smoke weed! Cuz I dont have any no answers to this fucked up world!!!!" Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jan 30, 2004, 01:05 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
JustinGilmore Molten Ash Location: US, California Posts: 44	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PatC,) First off, I have'nt read any of his books, i check out his website about 2-3 times a week. From this at least, why Michale Moore seem to think hes smarter than everyone else? He consistently criticizes the government and Bush and does not give him credit on anything and points out his faults in leadership. I have yet to hear Michael Moore offer any sort of solution or alternative to the war in Iraq or other issues besides "Bush fcked up". Is he capable of forming an inteligent and rational opinion? He states facts about Iraq supporting his own anti-war view that often contradict with the work of others (such as Kenneth Pollack). If you have read either of his books let me know what you think, hopefully im wrong<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> You're wrong, his books are well put, and are sound when it comes to facts. The simple truth is that Bush has really pulled a fast one on the American citizens. It's actully shamefull, and disgusting. The "Liberal" media(which isn't even liberal at all), the stolen election, the president who went AWOL, the president who lied about WMD's. My point is that there is PLENTY of evidence backing Moores statments, esp in contrast to Bush's statments. Bush's lies make Moore look genius (which he is, anyways). </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by* Michael Moore is like George Bush, except with a different ideology. People like Moore are the doomsayers of the world; they've got all the criticism, and no solutions. "The world is fucked up! Yeah duuuuude! Lets go smoke weed! Cuz I dont have any no answers to this fucked up world!!!!" <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> We'll Moore at no point has ever just said "duuuude the world if fkd up." For example, in one of his books (i forgot which one, probably Stupid White Men) he had an open statment on how we can fix the israli/palistine problem. Also, it's people like Moore who actully help change happen, which by the looks of your post is something that you do not want. It's actully quite a shame that people don't have strong opinons like Moore, and I do wish they had them. It would be a better world if people would have their own ideals rather the ones that are force fed to them via biast TV analysists. Moore is someone that America needs at this moment. Look at how well the Bush propaganda has worked, there is litterly NO oppisition in the media, the control which the administration has on it is insane. Before 9/11 no one would have sided with Bush (current Bush). 9/11 has drasitcally changed our country, we're living in fear-and this is permitting Bush to do whatever he pleases really. I'm glad there is a popular person who has stood up against his agenda, todays Bush prays off xenophobia and overmanipulates facts and all the wile puts us in a 1 trillion doller deficit...and people want to re-elect him? Know why? Propaganda. I'm glad there is substantual oppsition to Bush, and even if I do not agree with Moore 100% of the time, I still give him my reguards. PS. Moore's usually right anyways :) ...weird

Jan 30, 2004, 01:40 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
PatC Molten Ash Location: Boston Posts: 109	Michael Moore admits he never graduated from college, and continually states that the U.S. went to war based on ficticous evidence that Iraq has or at one time possesed WMDs. Ken Pollack, (BA Yale, PhD MIT, Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institute, and Director of Saban Center for Middle East Policy) in his book The Threatening Storm (written before Gulf War II) states that they will be found and lays out the possibilities of what may have happened to them ( sold to syria, n. korea, al queda, destroyed to discredit Bush, etc.) Someone explain to me how Michael Moore can be so certain. Yes WMDs have not been found, but they were there in the 1980s all you have to do is ask any Kurd or Iranian. When you have free time read The Threatening Storm, wheather you agree or not We're looking at the world through the barrel of a gun, are we ready?

Jan 31, 2004, 11:23 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	I've read most books by Moore (usually I just read the middle chapters, since the rest is crap). And stupid white men is....well stupid. No, its worse than stupid. He doesn't present solutions. The only "solutions" he presents are simplistic and idiotic. He doesn't even take basic economics into account! Where did he get his economics education? Oh wait, he doesnt even have an education. Of course, Moore has no credibility. He has a video camera. I can make a story about America conquering the world under Adolf Hitler II with a video camera. Has he spoken to the national leaders of the world powers? Has he spoken to ANY national leader? He reminds me of a Christian....points out the moral faults of the world, but doesnt bother solving it. "Oh lets just hold hands and pray...." -Except he uses other words for pray. Rather no solution than an idiot's solution. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jan 28, 2004, 09:03 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
FC Mellon Molten Ash Location: So Cal Posts: 51	PatC...you would be amazed at the ways some 'Stupid White Men' try to sell a book. Remember that Republican who worked as the Secretary of Defense for a Democrat President who once said: "Helping others to be wrong is a cheap and childish method for trying to gain a feeling of superiority". ...I guess we all enjoy feeling superior once in a while..hee hee...though I still am searching for that feeling...just another Stupid White Man here. 8?( p.s. ..oh yeah..I forgot...Robert 'Strange' McNamara 8?O

Jan 28, 2004, 09:50 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	He does come off very agressive and maybe, as you said, egoistic. I've read "Stupid white men" and am now reading (almost done) "Dude, where's my country", and even though one is to read them 'through a filter', they're really funny and entertaining. Also, there's alot of talking about him lying in his books, but I think the message he's trying to get through to the US public is a good one (even if there are some figures twisted, haven't seen any "real" lies there yet). I think Michael Moore is a blessing to the US, with him being the average Joe with truly good values, and the skills to get through to normal people. And he does come with solutions to everything he criticizes, more or less serious. No matter where you stand politically, I think everyone should read those two books. If for nothing else, just for the pure hilarity of them. : )

Jan 28, 2004, 10:03 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
FC Mellon Molten Ash Location: So Cal Posts: 51	Paavo wrote: "I think Michael Moore is a blessing to the US, with him being the average Joe with truly good values, and the skills to get through to normal people. And he does come with solutions to everything he criticizes, more or less serious. No matter where you stand politically, I think everyone should read those two books. If for nothing else, just for the pure hilarity of them. : ) " I totally agree with the above....no matter everyone's politics...every 'one' should read what Moore has to say. There are many cogent points in 'his depiction of reality'. Though I disagree with Paavo's rendition of Moore being 'the average Joe'...imho...'Moore' is 'anything but average'..even though he enjoy the appearance of such. The man is quite intelligent/well read/political/confident/etc.....though 'imo' not necessarily correct with everything he has put to pen...oh and did I mention..'quite rich now' }?} ...but I still look at him just as I look at myself...just another 'fat white dude'...who 'needs to shed some of his bias' so he doesn't look so unhealthy to others...especially if he wants them to 'get it'...that is...what 'he gets'. 8?O

Jan 29, 2004, 01:34 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	Have you read his books, Castille? He does come with a solution to everything he criticizes, even if in a humorous manner sometimes. I'm not going to argue for Michael Moore, but I do think that he has better values than the ones in charge right now. That alone should be reason enough to give the man some credit. I'm just saying that he's not a guy screaming that everything's fucked up without coming with answers how to fix things.

Jan 29, 2004, 03:07 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
FC Mellon Molten Ash Location: So Cal Posts: 51	Once on my second day at work with this new company...I had a boss who said to me when I pointed out something wrong with a very large project..and he said: "Don't point out anything wrong with what we have built if you don't have a solution"....I replied: "oh..so If I see your house on fire and I don't have a best/handy solution with how to put the fire out I should just keep my mouth shut and walk away"...he got my point!....oh and I got a promotion with my 'solution' I presented somewhat later. 8?) So imho...it is ok to point out things which might be handled in a more efficient/proper way without necessarily having a ready solution. Sometimes the professionals are too close to the problem to see the errors of their ways s..but are able/willing to accept 'constructive criticism'..especially is they are not too immature. Personally I am not too fond of M. Moore...but I will still listen to him or anyone else who might be able to show 'US' the errors of our ways...provided their analysis appears to be somewhat cogent.

Jan 30, 2004, 10:12 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
blibbka Molten Ash Location: UK Posts: 130	He makes some good points and the world is a better place for his output, but he does have a leaning towards hyperbole that annoys me sometimes. Michael Moore took a bit of a battering in my opinions when I saw an edition of Question Time (UK political debate programme) with him as a panelist and he spent the show mainly interrupting other panelists whose opinions didn't mathc his. Started the show laughing with him but ended it wishing he'ld shut up and let someone else make a point un-interrupted.

Feb 9, 2004, 10:34 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
zorgasm Sedimentary Rock Posts: 5	In my English Literature class a few days ago, a passage from 'Stupid White Men' was read. So I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I really respect and admire Moore's work, I own stupid white men, I've seen a couple of his movies (Roger & Me, Bowling for C-bine). However to me, it seems that he tends to skew figures and data in order to prove his point. He presents a lot of irrelevant facts & figures that are simply for shock value. He fails to present an alternative point of view to his own, and this seems one of his weaknesses as a filmmaker and and author. His work would fare well as a persuasive essay, however for artistic merit he fails to dig deeper; he seems caught up in his own beliefs. Has anyone read "Dude, where's my country?"?? I'm wondering if it's worth picking up. Despite Moore's usual bias and faults, I'd like to see what he has to offer in his latest release.

Feb 10, 2004, 03:07 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
PatC Molten Ash Location: Boston Posts: 109	Does anyone ever read Tom Friedman's column in the New York Times? He has a very creative and unique outlook. Being a republican (most likey will not be for long) I am often surprised and occasionally pissed off by mostly everything liberals put out. Yet Friedman is one of the most insightful and intelligent writers i have read. He states his opinion, then backs it up with facts or reasonable argument. He criticizes the Bush admistration, then offers a solution. And even sometimes praises Bush for some of his actions. Friedman has writen 3 books, i have read 1 1/2. I often wonder why he is not a more central figure in the media, and is often overlooked by the like of Michael Moore and others. More and more i am convinced that Michael Moore is proped up by the liberal media, given too much praise, all to advance their own opinions. We're looking at the world through the barrel of a gun, are we ready?

Feb 10, 2004, 03:19 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Why the hell would a liberal, former Green Party member, write a book that gave credit to Bush? Perhaps for the same reason Hannity's book didn't give any credit to Clinton? Because it is POLITICS!!! C'mon, what a dumb question. I don't watch Fox News when I want to hear about the problems in Iraq, and I didn't read Michael Moore's Stupid White Men to read about Bush's good qualities (I tried to think of an example, but as you can see I came up short. Fox News isn't convincing enough I guess).

Feb 10, 2004, 10:46 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
FreedomFirst Molten Ash Posts: 67	The problem with Michael Moore is that he is considered by many to be a documentarian, when in fact he is anything but. There were lists of data going around about his latest movie, and I've seen some about his older works as well. It's fine and dandy that this guy wants to make political movies, but to call them documentaries implies a certain neutrality that simply is not present in his filmmaking. It also implies a level of truth that is not present. "You have to question when a person says, 'I have a great idea, let's make everyone __________.' If it's such a great idea, why do you have to make people do it?" www.freestateproject.org

Feb 10, 2004, 10:55 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
Bragar Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	moore is an ideology driven moron. His work is neither documentary nor is it factual-it's fiction. He is propped up by the liberal establishment thus his Academy Award for that pathetic piece of fantasy he put out a year or two ago. I encourge anyone interested in accuracy to seek out other sources apart from the national media. They are overtly liberal and they produce tools like michael more. The far east and west coasts are populated with extream liberals. They have a goal to rip tradition from this country and force their twisted POV on mainstream America. That's why they fear and hate George Bush so dramatically. He is the obstical they face to restructuring our country. moore is one of the more extream liberals and thus one of the flag bearers of the liberal cause. Views too far left or right are damaging to the nation.

Feb 10, 2004, 02:33 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Bragar,) moore is an ideology driven moron.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> As compared to you. At least he's an idealist. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Feb 10, 2004, 06:39 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	1. I think Moore is a tool also, and discredits liberals 2. However, he called his movie a Mockumentary and only the Academy Awards called it a Documentary.

Feb 10, 2004, 08:23 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Atomica Molten Ash Location: Joplin MO USA Posts: 36	"Dude, where's my country?" Dude, it's like in Cuba? Michael Moron needs to get a clue. Evidently he has a very low IQ not tomention he is a terrorist-appeasing communist traitor without whom we would be better off. ATOMICA Xtremist In Charge, POLITICAL SMACKDOWN! On Runboard And Network54

Feb 10, 2004, 08:24 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Atomica Molten Ash Location: Joplin MO USA Posts: 36	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Bragar,) moore is an ideology driven moron.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> As compared to you. At least he's an idealist.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> The problem with idealists is they start out with good intentions and they turn into bad trainwrecks. Look at the "War On Poverty" as a good example. ATOMICA Xtremist In Charge, POLITICAL SMACKDOWN! On Runboard And Network54