The Myth of the American War Hero

[seyorni]

Yes, seriously. How can you not see this?

[Thanatos]

Yes, seriously. How can you not see this?

The exception is that terrorists (loosely defined) who are ignored for too long often get ants in their pants from feeling useless. Why did Syria fire missiles at Israel every once in a while? No military point, really. The sole purpose was to stir things up and keep the Syrian people excited and distracted to delay the current crisis. There are many organizations and governments that could not survive without an enemy, and the prospect of that enemy no longer playing along would send them into panic mode.

[Winter wind]

Sometimes bad things need to be done in order to prevent a worse situation.

True, many times, we don't know what the worse situation is or even if it will occur. Also, we can't infringe on freedom just to prevent what may or may not be a worse situation. It's not enough to defend freedoms when it's convenient or easy. You have to do it when it's dangerous. Otherwise we aren't defending freedoms, we're just defending our own asses.

Maybe if he had flown a plane into a building I'd be a bit more worried about people like him, however, that isn't the case.

I do not find it outside the realm of plausibility that a terrorist organization is able to recruit someone who's white. Neither do I find it crazy that a terrorist organization bent on hijacking or attacking an airplane would be predominately white. We have just as many crazy people here as they have over there.

[RjBig]

This subject is a tough one for me...I come from a family where all of the males have served, including myself...Of course I was young and wanted money for college...It was peace time...As I said I was young then...As I have aged my view of life has grown and I now look at things a little differently...

I still respect the Idea of serving the country...However I some real issues with what our Military has become...And what it does...Some here have mentioned Vietnam and describe the actions of Jane Fonda and the Protestors as Traitors...But now we can look back with some clarity...and see...The protestors were RIGHT! The protestors said the war served no purpose, They said we should not be in that fight...they were RIGHT...They said the KILLING was unnecessary....they were RIGHT...They said the war was about Money...They were RIGHT....and Iraq was again another VIETNAM...totally unnecessary and not about the Security of America...no it was about MONEY...and the People of Iraq and our Soldiers were used as pawns for Corporate America to make a buck...It may bancrupt our country and kill thousands of our Young but what they hey we'll make a buck....Disgusting...

Some here have mentioned the Military Propaganda Machine that makes it to where the Young actually think joining is good for them and the Country...It is not...The military is bancrupting America...the actions of our Government make us less safe...A person is more likely to get shot working at 7-eleven than as a US Soldier in IRAQ during the War...So who is the Brave one...The soldier who has all the gear and intelligence backing him up as he goes to fight or the young girl who defends herself with only a smile...I get so upset when I hear Career Military people rant about the evils of Socialism and how Obama is trying to ruin our country by making it a Socialist Nation....To have a Career in the Military is to denounce our Free markets and Capitalism...and to choose to join the militaries Socialist System...Do not misunderstand what I am saying...Pat Tillman...He was a HERO...He did not join for the Money...He did not join to have a career...He joined solely to do his part during a time of war...That is what our military should be about...and what did he get for it...He got killed by fellow soldiers....Sickening...Our service is our final act to prevent our Government from taking unnecessary actions...If we had not volunteered to fight in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN we would not have all the Maimed and dead...WE would not have the huge Debt...We need to reduce our military expenditures by at least 50%...that money would be much better used on education for our citizens...The Navy is not as the commercial says "A Global Force for GOOD"....I do love the Orwellian nature of that commercial...almost as good as Department of Homeland Security....sounds a lot like the Ministry of Peace...lol

[seyorni]

The exception is that terrorists (loosely defined) who are ignored for too long often get ants in their pants from feeling useless. Why did Syria fire missiles at Israel every once in a while? No military point, really. The sole purpose was to stir things up and keep the Syrian people excited and distracted to delay the current crisis. There are many organizations and governments that could not survive without an enemy, and the prospect of that enemy no longer playing along would send them into panic mode.

Good point.
The best policy, I'd say, would be to eschew imperialistic machinations so patriots aren't radicalized in the first place. Ie: don't create terrorists and you won't have to worry about terrorism.

[truthreality]

"The military", as a whole, "fight(s) for America's freedom." From the top to the bottom, they all have a place and are needed in order to be successful. Some go above and beyond and are even more heroic, but they are all heroes.

There is no reason for false pride. If multiple countries really conspired to they could rip America to shreds and destroy it's freedom and America could do nothing about it. America is best off approaching freedom with a peace first philosophy with war as the last resort.

In the past recent years more military members have committed suicide then died in combat. That doesn't sound heroic to me.

"Suicide totals have exceeded U.S. combat deaths in Afghanistan in earlier periods, including for the full years 2008 and 2009."

"The statistics reported by The Associated Press show that military deaths from suicide outweighed combat deaths by a two-to-one ratio"

[truthreality]

Why does fighting for "America's freedom" need to be a "defensive" action?

There is no need to fight for one's freedom if there is not threat against one's freedom.

[truthreality]

If simply joining the military makes you a hero, then what we need to do is change our definition of a hero. The military is a job, just like any other. I don't consider ice truckers, who probably directly effect me more than the military, heroes. Nor fishermen, cab drivers, or airline pilots. Sure, it's easier to be a hero in the military as it allows some stickier more life-threatening situations but just because you served your time doesn't mean you're any more important to society than I am, thus rendering you normal.

If you run into a room full of "skinnies" and blast the armed men into oblivion and save the lives of the innocent, you're a god damn hero.

If you're sitting in an air conditioned office controlling an armed UAV and you're just slaughtering targets in the street... :/

Like.

[truthreality]

OEF US Casualties By State

There are over 15,000 soldiers wounded just from Afghanistan. Barts, I don't believe you have any idea what the word "hard data" means. You're looking at fatalities only, but some of these people are so crippled that it might as well be death.

In two years there have been 2/3 as many workers injured in non-military U.S. jobs as there have been American soldiers injured in Afghanistan over 11 years.

Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries:

"The preliminary count of fatal work injuries in the U.S. in 2010 was 4,547, about the same as the final total of 4,551 in 2009."

[truthreality]

II believe it used to be called the Department of War, if I'm not mistaken...however, not everything that affects our "freedom" comes from being "defensive". And example would be playing defense against Al queda. That gets us nothing.

Technically this is still defense since the United States is fighting against Al Queda because they are a threat. If Al Queda was not a threat there would be no reason to fight.

[lsbskins1]

Just askin' but what has your grandfather or my father for that matter who flew bombers in WWII over Germany got to do with Dunkin' Donuts coffee drinking drone operators working out of air conditioned trailers in bases in Nevada and California and launching Hellfire missiles on civilians in Pakistan? Heroes? These soldiers are nothing more than glorified video game players that just so happen to kill real people most of whom are innocent and deemed collateral damage.

Unlike your grandfather or my father, the only flack these "heroes" are going to endure is rush hour traffic on the drive home and perhaps a first degree burn while flipping steaks on the barbecue.

You seem to have missed the larger point of my post...

But to address the issue you raise here, it is a strange quandry. If, instead of sending your father to face the flak of German guns, we had been able to fly unmanned drones over Germany and save Allied lives, would you have refused your father that personal protection? The technology is a double edged sword. It creates both an advantage and an increased moral obligation. I would suggest that the problem is not that we CAN fly drones from a safe haven, it is how and when we choose to do it. And the guy pushing the joy stick does not make that decision. The moral fault is with the decision makers. And, it is easy to take the purist view that any civilian death caused by the use of technology is a moral failure, but if you take that view, and your father did fly missions over Germany, you must condemn him as well because it is an almost statistical certainty that civilians we killed by bombs he dropped. That someone shot at him in the process does not make the dead civilians any less dead, or any less civillian. I don't think your father was without morals, and I doubt you do, so he obeyed orders that led to deaths of innocents while not being a damn immoral pig war criminal. I don't think we can condemn the guy today anymore than we can condemn your father. The ugly truth is that civillians will die in war. It is pretty much unavoidable. What is avoidable is callous disregard for this reality. And therein lays the danger of the drone technology. It becomes easier to disregard useless death when you are immune to the inherent danger of war. It is a rationl aim during war time to minimize your own casualties and maximize your opponent's. Drones serve that purpose. I would suggest that the thing we are "screwing up" is not that we use the technology, it is that we refuse to accept that having it means we have to be tremendously dilligent in making sure we only employ it when the costs of not using it are a greater moral failure.

[barts]

You seem to have missed the larger point of my post...

But to address the issue you raise here, it is a strange quandry. If, instead of sending your father to face the flak of German guns, we had been able to fly unmanned drones over Germany and save Allied lives, would you have refused your father that personal protection?

By all means fly unmanned drones, just don't consider their pilots "brave" or "heroes". They're neither.