What are the goals of liberalism?

[Darklordabc]

Seriously, is there a set of defined goals that liberals have in mind?

Democracy, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Choice, and all that good stuff.

Do government entitlements equate to "freedom" for liberals?

Depends what you mean by "freedom". Running around punching people in the nose is freedom too. But if by freedom, you mean a society that maximises human potential and liberty, then yes some entitlments are freedom.

What level of taxation is the most they need and will never ask for more beyond it, if granted?

Cant answer this question, there is no way to know that the optimmum taxation rate is unless we know the context. In the future we may be engaged in a war that requires very very high taxation. Trying to set an upper limit is folly.

Is forcefully taking from a few for the benefit of many a moral request or is it coercion?

It is a moral request. If one guy has all the bread in the town, and everbody else is going to starve, is it moral to take the bread and share it up, or is it more coercion?

Do liberals acknowledge that corporations are entities made up of people of which the majority put in a lot of sweat and sacrifice to make the company the economic success and providers of essential goods or services that it is?

Many liberals do not give acknowledgement to hard working companies. Actually many liberals of the "occupying" sort seem to buy into conspiracy theories that companies are the biggest evil in the world.

Are there any government programs the liberals are willing to declare obsolete outside of military expenditures that are only about 3.2% of our gdp? http://www.wisegeek.com/what-percent...n-military.htm

Don't know.

[Charlatan]

I can understand, as noted in my op, my sympathies.

I think if you ask any fair minded person that they would likely say, "yes" signifying agreement that they too believe in "equality." But how do we approach that and by extension "fairness?" For instance if I'm poor, you win the lottery and a third part built a company from the ground up, would you say the lottery winner should be taxed more then the guy who built the company? Should I the poor, receive more of your money since "you didn't earn it" and some of his to make things fair and equal? Or should the third party pay more because all though he did earn it he has become too successful and has too much? Should we just have a plateau that people can reach and then all earnings above that must be confiscated in the name of equality? i'm curious as to how "equality" works in the liberal mindset. I realize there are scoundrels who have exploited their way to the top but I'm referring to everyday honest people running their economic interests.



How do we determine what is an equal distribution of justice without being bias as to what the affect may or may not have on society?

Do you consider rape immoral? What is "equal opportunity" and how would you purpose to insure it to all across the board?

Would you mind expressing your views to some of the specific questions in the op? I really am curious as to your thoughts.

Like!

[oades11]

Considering President Kennedy was more to the right than most modern republicans today and Winston Churchill had this to say "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains."

There is no record that Churchill ever made that quote.

[finder]

There is no record that Churchill ever made that quote.

http://www.quotedb.com/category/poli...ston-churchill

[Dan74]

Actually he didn't even say it: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston...#Misattributed

It's a stupid quote anyway, as some of the most famous "conservatives" have been idiots.

[finder]

Just how were they "taxed and regulated" out of business?

With my daughter's store, the business depended on the ability to take in merchandise as well as selling it. So as it became established in the first few years and as the various local governmental agencies tacked on their fees and taxes the state and federal governments taxed the "potential" sales that the inventory in stock could generate. In other words they taxed the estimate worth of the inventory. Now if she didn't have a mortgage on her house and kids to raise she might have been able to stick it out. Indeed she gave it try by hiring a trust worthy friend to mind the store during the week while she worked a job. But that turned out to be rather expensive thanks to uncle sam. As it is commonly known that for every employee hired the government demands almost the same amount payed to the employee, in taxes. This occurred in the liberal bay area where the liberals constantly claim to stick it to the rich for our sake.

My friends bistro met a similar fate only his tax that did him in wasn't so much an inventory type tax. His bistro was in San Jose and the city constantly added regulatory certifications for all kinds little things like grease disposal and exhaust from kitchen equipment. He could have stayed open as well but as he put it, he was losing so much money trying to stay ahead of the onslaught of bureaucratic and environmental agencies with their hands out that he couldn't sleep at night. Always wondering what fee or fine he will be hit with next. And just so you know, he's liberal in his politics. Just another statistical casualty among a growing list as liberals continue their quest to "make the rich pay their fair share."

Bottom line is it doesn't matter what ideology is in control, if it's not offset enough by another, corruption and greed set in. Right now the pendulum is too far left. It needs to swing back to the right and loosen governmental oppressive bureaucracies on small business if we are ever going to come out of this economic stagnation.

[finder]

Actually he didn't even say it: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston...#Misattributed

It's a stupid quote anyway, as some of the most famous "conservatives" have been idiots.

"Wiki" is either loved or hated, depending on whether or not one agrees with what they say. Truth is you and I do not know for certain. But the quote itself is "stupid" only if it cast an unflattering light on oneself. And some of the most famous liberals have been idiots as well.

[CarlPilkington]

Wasn't the allure of having no "glass ceilings" what created the wealth by drawing many entrepreneurs from around the world here with their dreams and ideas?

Yea, but now it's like NBA players playing basketball against a special ed team and taking all the points. You're not going to get good at basketball if you keep playing against the NBA, you're going to get hurt before that happens. Or you look at the economy like a garden, if you have a few big plants, they're going to suck up all the water and the small plants can't grow. That's probably a better analogy... I was resisting using a Pokemon reference... :(

[CarlPilkington]

meanwhile, no joke, there are people living better then I, in government housing, receiving assistance that I'm not able to receive or take advantage of because I make too much at 60,000 per year.

My girlfriend, kid, and I are receiving food stamps and cash assistance. I work as a server at a small coffee shop that just opened and I make 4 dollars an hour plus tips. My girlfriend and I are both going to college on Pell grants. We live in a four room apartment. A kitchen with a gas stove, we got out kitchen table from my dad and we have some old lawn chairs to sit on, a living room with no furniture but a bean bag chair and a futon mattress. We just got an AC yesterday, THANK GOD, because we live in Florida. Again, my dad had to give that to us. We eat pretty well. We have no TV, had to sell it and other things you probably have at a yard sale. We have no car.

Over all, it's not bad, I still have my 5 year old laptop and all. Anyway, do you think we're living better than you are?

[finder]

My girlfriend, kid, and I are receiving food stamps and cash assistance. I work as a server at a small coffee shop that just opened and I make 4 dollars an hour plus tips. My girlfriend and I are both going to college on Pell grants. We live in a four room apartment. A kitchen with a gas stove, we got out kitchen table from my dad and we have some old lawn chairs to sit on, a living room with no furniture but a bean bag chair and a futon mattress. We just got an AC yesterday, THANK GOD, because we live in Florida. Again, my dad had to give that to us. We eat pretty well. We have no TV, had to sell it and other things you probably have at a yard sale. We have no car.

Over all, it's not bad, I still have my 5 year old laptop and all. Anyway, do you think we're living better than you are?

Too bad you're not located in California, in a large population center to be precise. My wife and I live in a modest one bed room, one bath apt that is 1600 a month. When we inquired the renting price of a comparable apt complex in a neighboring suburb we found out it was government housing which was offering a two bedroom two bath for 875 a month. I didn't qualify because of my salary. Believe me, those apt dwellers live every bit as well as I do.

I do hope for the best for you with your situation. But the point of my op is that the liberals do not "go after the rich" to pay for programs as they incessantly promise with every election. They go after people who work hard, many of them for the corporations they wail against.

[Dan74]

"Wiki" is either loved or hated, depending on whether or not one agrees with what they say. Truth is you and I do not know for certain. But the quote itself is "stupid" only if it cast an unflattering light on oneself. And some of the most famous liberals have been idiots as well.

Did you even read it? It's not like some kid with too much time on their hands added this in. It's clearly backed by valid sources.

[finder]

CarlPilkington,

My wife just reminded me rent on those apartments were income based ranging from 250 to 800 a month! I was mistaken on my 875 quote. doesn't that make you sick? When you gain success I hope these walls of discouragement are nonexistent where you are.