target: venezuela?

[bishop]

this ties into the theory that we invaded iraq because of saddam’s decision to price oil in euros. as it is, bush already backed a coup to oust chavez, so this new theory could most certainly be plausible.

where to start… well, opposite of how bush invaded iraq and summarily tore up its existing oil contracts and doled them out to u.s. corporations, venezuela has been actively forming new partnerships with countries like russia and china. meanwhile, they’ve been dragging their feet in the dirt when it comes to renewing contracts with u.s. oil companies.

the people of Venezuela have definitely benefited from high oil prices here. it’s estimated that for every $1 increase in the price of one barrel of oil, venezuela realizes $100 billion in additional revenues. with all of this money, chavez has given his people universal healthcare. deals made with china will naturally include increased exports to china – as it has recently become the world’s #2 consumer of oil and long-term projections show that it will eventually become the #1 consumer. what this means is that exports diverted away from the u.s. will cause our oil prices to increase even more.

we’ve already thwarted china’s quest for reliable oil supplies in afghanistan and iraq. we have our sights focused on iran, another key supplier for china. how about venezuela, where bush has already tried to stage a kissinger-esqe coup?

big momma rice has come out giving strong condemnation of Venezuela while women are beheaded in public in the land of bush’s friends, Saudi Arabia - and she doesn't say anything!


one last article that summarizes the issue nicely (if you didn’t feel like reading all the other ones above): http://www.sptimes.com/2005/02/07/Bu...l_artery.shtml


so, anyone here care to speculate what bush's foreign policy with respect to venezuela might be? boy, pissing off the whole world really works wonders for our country!

[bishop]

good timeline here:

http://wherewearebound.typepad.com/i...ame/venezuela/


plus, there's a growing volume of documentation hinting that we're using columbia as a proxy to target venezuela. as it is, columbia has violated venezuela's territory as it kidnapped a FARC leader.

[Nono]

Chavez is already getting the ol' villification treatment, which is a necessary preliminary. And since he has the country's wealthy baying for his blood, he'd better look out for Venezualan Contras as opposed to a frontal US attack.

Universal health care! Guy's got a nerve, don't he? :)

[fushigi]

Actually, a thread like this could backfire on radical Bush-hating liberals who claim that Iraq was "all about the oil." That is, if the U.S. doesn't invade Venezuela or revert to a '70s Kissinger coup to replace him with a friendly Pinochetan Mini Me, it would be all the more evidence that there is no right-wing conspiracy to control world oil through military might. After all, doesn't the U.S. get the majority of its oil from Mexico, Canada, Venezuela, and Nigeria (i.e. not the Middle East)?

[Mr.Vicchio]

It does. And while Bishop focuses like a laser on the "crimes of the Bush family" et al, constitutional rights are being stripped in that poor country daily. While the Bush administration looks ofr a way to avoid another Cuba rising, people like Bishop seek nefarious oil deals and sneak excuses to start another war.

Meanwhile, the land rights of the people are being stripped, Hugo Chavez continues his campaign to control the media and Bishop.. condemns America.

Yes this is a terrible situation, but it's a terrible situation for anyone that believes in freedom. That means supporting Bush.

[bishop]

Quote by: fushigi Actually, a thread like this could backfire on radical Bush-hating liberals who claim that Iraq was "all about the oil." That is, if the U.S. doesn't invade Venezuela or revert to a '70s Kissinger coup to replace him with a friendly Pinochetan Mini Me, it would be all the more evidence that there is no right-wing conspiracy to control world oil through military might. After all, doesn't the U.S. get the majority of its oil from Mexico, Canada, Venezuela, and Nigeria (i.e. not the Middle East)?

actually, i never said i believed that theory, although it is plausible from a purely logical standpoint. i.e. the theory makes sense, whether or not it's the real reason is another story. the salient issue at hand is that venezuela is moving to use euros rather than dollars, and that it's diverting some of it's oil supplies to china (when they would normally be sold in the u.s.). venezuela is also selling oil to cuba at a generous discount.

the administration sends people to exotic places to torture them, while proclaiming to be the great saint of the world. the allegations of life in venezuela are being actively distorted by bush's p.r. goons. fascism depends on good p.r. and these guys have a nack for it. they've already pumped millions into chavez's opponent's failed campaign. then, they helped with the failed coup attempt. there've been failed assassination attempts, etc.. we have a good place there, being that we're giving military "assistance" to columbia's government.

i'm not saying that this theory is reality.. all i'm saying is that it's possible, and that the administration has been ramping up its rhetoric against venezuela. the bush administration is one that looks for new targets, and venezuela could definitely become another one. although, we'd probably continue to try to get chavez killed, rather than stage some sort of invasion.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: bishop ... it’s estimated that for every $1 increase in the price of one barrel of oil, venezuela realizes $100 billion in additional revenues.

I admittedly just scanned the links provided, but did not see any evidence to support this claim. This would imply a production level of 100 billion barrels of oil, something I find hard to believe.

[Mr.Vicchio]

The whole basis of the arguement is hard to believe.

[Nono]

Quote by: fushigi If the U.S. doesn't invade Venezuela or revert to a '70s Kissinger coup to replace him with a friendly Pinochetan Mini Me, it would be all the more evidence that there is no right-wing conspiracy to control world oil through military might.

It would consititute evidence neither way. Iraq is floating on the world's second biggest pool of oil, and the US has its hands full occupying that country. Despite its efforts to demonize Chavez, it may decide that Venezuela would be biting off more than it can chew militarily, and simply continue supporting the opposition in the hope that something gives.
It could be argued that this is what it did in Chile (in a very active way) and the effort eventually paid off.

Edited for spelling. Damn.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Who has to demonize Chavez? He does a good enough job on his own.

[Nono]

No he doesn't, Vic. He's a Latin American leader in the macho tradition and has his faults, but there is far more sinister stuff going on on that continent that somehow doesn't attract the ire of the US (and therefore of Mr.V).

Remember when Nelson Mandela was one of the US media's whipping boys? All you have to do is defy the wrong interests at the wrong time and you instantly get the ol' demonization routine.

[bishop]

Quote by: Zeebadee I admittedly just scanned the links provided, but did not see any evidence to support this claim. This would imply a production level of 100 billion barrels of oil, something I find hard to believe.

shit.. that's my mistake.. i meant to say they realize an extra $1 billion for every $1 increase in a barrel of oil. here's the source:

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=23074

i'll fix the first post so nobody else is confused. thanks.

*edit - too late for making changes to the first post. oh well.*

[Mr.Vicchio]

Again, Chavez is far worse then your whitewashing of him. But maybe I just read too many "rightwing" news sources where things like, subverting the media, stealing land, using the military to attack it's own people... is considered damning. Perhaps I should check out more "mainstream" media sites and outlets, where Fidel's wanna be is lauded for his goals and his methods ignored... yes perhaps I wouldn't then demonize him.

[bishop]

what does that have to do with this thread?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Why Venezula Bishop?

[Gorgo]

You mean, why not Haiti or some of the other places that the U.S. has decided to attack and impoverish?

[Mr.Vicchio]

America likes ruining other countries for fun yes...
::rollseyes:::

[Nono]

Quote by: Mr.V maybe I just read too many "rightwing" news sources

No doubt.

things like, subverting the media, stealing land, using the military to attack it's own people.

Sounds just like the practices of the Latin American governments that the US is in the habit of supporting wholeheartedly.

Lula is another guy who sounds ripe for demonization. What do you have to put on his charge sheet, Vic? Witchcraft perhaps?

[G. Adams]

I doubt it with Lula, he is a lackey of capitalism with all the right rhetoric. He has already promised to agree by the austerity measures set by the IMF. At the recent World Social Forum both Lula and Chavez turned up. Chavez was cheered and praised like a rock god, Lula was largely booed or ignored.

[Gorgo]

Might want to check out something called American History, there 'V.'