Seattle Central Community College Riot

[Lou Minotti]

Quote by: Lou Minotti Oh, woops, I mentioned Halliburton, I must worship Dennis Kucinich and have a commie flag on my wall

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio it's like tuning into Air America.

I WAS RIGHT!!!! This guy is about as predictable as my dog when the food hits the bowl...I could be pouring a bunch of marbles but she still comes looking for Purina.

[kharmajunkie]

One of those few occasions I agree with Vic. I'm against the war too but it's misguided and just wrong to bully recruitment officers. That's not unlike soldiers getting spit on coming home from Nam.
Protest the Bush administration, that's whose responsible for the war.

[G. Adams]

Even though I don't advocate the current causes they are being sent off to fight for, I do think we should give soldiers more respect than they get. I don't know how they train 'em in the US, but the British Army does a good job of turning boys into men, as does the Royal Marines (our marines are green beret commando's, so that's kind of inevitable), and on that basis I would advocate everyone going into those services if they can. I'm waiting for the doc's to clear me of asthma so I can get in, once that's done I'm going for the Royal Marines or Royal Signals, whether I've finished my degree or not.

[rcne]

I'd finish the degree and become an English officer. The Brits have a well earned reputation in the world.

Good weather in basic training - you'll know what I mean when you get through it.

[castille]

Simple, just stop all funds to those schools.

If the students don't need the government, then the government should cut off all assistance to those students.

In about 3 hours all student protestors will come crying to the government for handouts...


Funny how students are always the ones making trouble. Protesting this, protesting that. Why not finish your studies (which is funded by the....GOVERNMENT!), make your own living, before protesting against the hand that feeds you?

[kharmajunkie]

"Funny how students are always the ones making trouble. Protesting this, protesting that. Why not finish your studies, make your own living, before protesting against the hand that feeds you?" Castille

What are you, ninety? If you'd rather people shut up and listen to our corrupt government then you're in for a rough couple of years of cultural civil war in America. I hope you enjoy the homos in your left ear and the evangelicals in your right. Nam protesters are gonna look like pikers by 08. And while you're giving out study advice to the student protesters, you should take some of it and go over your copy of the Constitution again. Or did I miss the part that says the first amendment is only applicable if your homework is done?
And protesting isn't a money issue, we are all Americans and whether we like it or not, there's bombs being dropped and people being killed with our money and GW does all this representing us.
Protesting is how people separate themselves from their government.

[leftcider]

Quote by: kharmajunkie One of those few occasions I agree with Vic. I'm against the war too but it's misguided and just wrong to bully recruitment officers. That's not unlike soldiers getting spit on coming home from Nam. Protest the Bush administration, that's whose responsible for the war.

I agree that soldiers deserve to be treated with respect. Unlike the example you cited, these weren't soldiers who had just returned from combat zones. The protestors weren't doing anything like spitting on the recruiters or threatening them either, they were just expressing their right to free speech.. The school is their community and they deserve to have their say, especially against military recruiters who often mislead those that they are trying to recruit in order to meet their quotas. I do not feel sorry for the recruiters. All they suffered were feelings of discomfort, and they should be made to feel uncomfortable about the cause which they are supporting. In a time when the military is starved for fresh bodies to send to Iraq, disrupting recruitment efforts seems an effective tactic to end US involvement in Iraq as quickly as possible. I thank these kids for taking a stand.

[Lou Minotti]

The Brits have a well earned reputation in the world.

My guess is you don't know too much about history. Which reputation are you referring to, exactly?

[Lou Minotti]

BTW Can you prove that they did not ship thier WMD and equipment out of the country before the war?

Can you prove that Bush and his neocon trojan horses aren't the equivalent of the Gambino crime family?

Just curious....

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Lou Minotti My guess is you don't know too much about history. Which reputation are you referring to, exactly?

He's talking about the skill of our military today, not the past transgressions. Our military today is very well respected, for it's capability. It comes from being a small military highly overstretched, it means nobody is green for long and there is a vast pool of experience. Also additional things, like respect for officers. It doesn't matter how old they are, they must be able to maintain battle fitness or they will be thrown out. Someone like Norman Schwarzkopf would be thrown out of our military. It means there is a lot of respect from the soldiers towards the officers.

[Lou Minotti]

Our military today is very well respected, for it's capability

Respected or feared? Capability for what? Occupation of foreign nations?

[kharmajunkie]

Quote by: leftcider Quote by: kharmajunkie One of those few occasions I agree with Vic. I'm against the war too but it's misguided and just wrong to bully recruitment officers. That's not unlike soldiers getting spit on coming home from Nam. Protest the Bush administration, that's whose responsible for the war. I agree that soldiers deserve to be treated with respect. Unlike the example you cited, these weren't soldiers who had just returned from combat zones. The protestors weren't doing anything like spitting on the recruiters or threatening them either, they were just expressing their right to free speech.. The school is their community and they deserve to have their say, especially against military recruiters who often mislead those that they are trying to recruit in order to meet their quotas. I do not feel sorry for the recruiters. All they suffered were feelings of discomfort, and they should be made to feel uncomfortable about the cause which they are supporting. In a time when the military is starved for fresh bodies to send to Iraq, disrupting recruitment efforts seems an effective tactic to end US involvement in Iraq as quickly as possible. I thank these kids for taking a stand.

I'm glad the kids want to protest the war but this group was misguided and if you don't see the hypocrisy in people demonstrating for peace by scaring and bullying recruitment officers then you should take another look. I don't know why people demonize recruitment officers like you just did. When I joined up, the Seargent that handled me was upfront and even wanted me to think about things for a couple of days because he felt I was rushing into it but you make them all sound like snake oil salesmen Last time I checked, a group of recruitment officers in a neocon think tank didn't start the war in Iraq, the Bush administration did.
I'm just saying that if you want to protest, at least protest the right people; anything less is disingenuous and just plain spineless.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Lou Minotti Respected or feared? Capability for what? Occupation of foreign nations?

Okay, this is just annoying, are you trying to ignore what I'm trying to say. I will be as clear as I can possibly be.

The British military, as it is today, is a highly efficient, well trained, veteran army. It is respected amongst the other military's of the world because of this. It is particularly well respected amongst our allies (even if they get a little pissed off when some of there stuff goes missing, our soldiers are nick-named 'the borrowers').

Capability for what? What is it do you think a military does? It invades, protects, peacekeeps, covert-intelligence at times, etc. The British military is well accomplished in this, perhaps most of all for it's special forces. The SAS and SBS are, arguably, the most elite unit in the world. This isn't just because they are better trained (or selected), but because they get called on all of the time to do their job, which means they have the greatest experience in their job.

Yes, the British military can occupy nations at times, though they don't have the size to cover large states for prolonged periods alone.

You are digging at something not related to what I was saying.

[Lou Minotti]

The British military, as it is today, is a highly efficient, well trained, veteran army. It is respected amongst the other military's of the world because of this. It is particularly well respected amongst our allies

OK, now I understand. Elitists have respect for other elitists. What's so special about that?

What is it do you think a military does?

Judging from every example in history, a military serves the elite of a given nation state.

Yes, the British military can occupy nations at times

At times? Are you kidding?

they don't have the size to cover large states for prolonged periods alone.

Right, so they have their little puppet regimes do the dirty work for them.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Lou Minotti OK, now I understand. Elitists have respect for other elitists. What's so special about that? Judging from every example in history, a military serves the elite of a given nation state. At times? Are you kidding? Right, so they have their little puppet regimes do the dirty work for them.

I don't know why your pursuing this. RCNE reccomended that I become an officer in our army which is well respected, and it is. You didn't understand this, so I tried to explain what he meant by this. Yet your creating an argument out of this, for what reason? I know full well that most military's of the world serve nothing but the elites of the state. I know that when these states release a military upon an enemy, massive atrocities usually occur. I know that unnacceptable numbers of civillian casualties occur in any offensive action. I never said that any of these things didn't occur, so why are you acting as if I am some ignorant nationalist? I certainly am not. I want to join the military not because I pretend that the military will always be doing good, it doesn't, I want to join up because I want the life of a soldier. I hate the mundane life of a civvy, it drives me fucking nuts. I also want the military training because I want to be able to defend myself from the state should the time come. I also like the idea of spreading communist ideas amongst the barracks.

So for god's sake, fuck off! Your attacking an opinion that I never held, it's lunacy.

[castille]

Quote by: G. Adams Our military today is very well respected, for it's capability

Not after 1940. Even Australia stopped respecting the British Army and started making alliances with the US.

The British troopers had its heyday during the 1800s, I mean the British hordes swept across Asia, Africa, and America cutting down anyone in their way, but somehow these days, you should be glad Britain isn't bordering any aggressive nations.

I also like the idea of spreading communist ideas amongst the barracks.

Funny, for me it was the opposite - spreading capitalist ideas amongst the barracks

Still, nationalism is the most powerful ideology for soldiers, since its so easy for them to believe. Let's face it, not every soldier is a communist/capitalist, but everyone belongs to the same nation. I've never seen a successful army built on ideology (even Stalin stopped preaching communism, and started nationalistic preaching, during WW2).

[G. Adams]

Arghh, more misunderstandings of what I meant by respect. I didn't mean that they were feared for the size of empire or control they exerted, but of the professionalism of British soldiers today.

I know I'd have to work within the grounds of nationalism. The idea would be that soldiers already live under a pretty much socialistic lifestyle. Everyone lives together, works together. Even though some are of higher ranks, they got their through work and capability, and despite the ranks, everyone is working together for higher goals. Have to be careful mind, this could all be equally capable of sounding a little fascist.

[rcne]

Those who were in the military will understand the life beyond what the rest of the populations do.
The choice to serve is to serve the all, this includes those who will never understand. But your service protects those who can't see the need. Such is one of the paradox.

[castille]

Quote by: G. Adams The idea would be that soldiers already live under a pretty much socialistic lifestyle. Everyone lives together, works together. Even though some are of higher ranks, they got their through work and capability, and despite the ranks, everyone is working together for higher goals.

Actually socialism has been tried for the army, with very poor results. I'm too young to remember, but some of the older guys in my troop served during socialist times. They have nothing good to say about socialist armies (even though they bore the brunt of socialist propaganda during the 60s).

Problems of socialist-style armies include command ("Why should I listen to your orders? I'm equal to you!"), control ("Stuff what high command said, I'm just gonna charge!") and efficiency (no sense of direction).

Personally I think fascism is a pretty damned good philosophy for the army. Obedience, order, loyalty, and most importantly, strength - who can defeat such an army?

[G. Adams]

Oh I'm certainly not up for for a socialist army, with elections etc I think the best you could do under such a system would be a democratic centralism, you elect your boss, but once that's done you have to maintain order and discipline under him. I still recommend that system though. Army's that are distracted by politics within themselves are always gonna be crap. Besides, I don't like the idea that I'm serving under someone who got elected by the group, they could be a nice guy or a good bullshitter, and don't know shit about their new role. I wouldn't want to risk it. The only time I could accept that would be in elite guerilla units, but in such a case you would know your comrades well enough to see who is fit for command.

I just want them to leave the military focusing on what can be achieved by a well functioning team, and the importance of looking after each other.

Also, no offence to those who don't find the military appealing, I see it, or the circumstances it puts you in, as what turn boys into men. You get to see the darkest aspects of life and deal with them. I don't want to go through life only seeing half of it.