US General Says It's Fun To Shoot People

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Matt W :eek: Too heavy duty for me, I'm afraid. Unless I dig out my Pschology notes from uni... Hmm.

Quote by: Carl Jung, Anyone who wants to know the human psyche will learn next to nothing from experimental psychology. He would be better advised to abandon exact science, put away his scholar's gown, bid farewell to his study, and wander with human heart throught the world. There in the horrors of prisons, lunatic asylums and hospitals, in drab suburban pubs, in brothels and gambling-hells, in the salons of the elegant, the Stock Exchanges, socialist meetings, churches, revivalist gatherings and ecstatic sects, through love and hate, through the experience of passion in every form in his own body, he would reap richer stores of knowledge than text-books a foot thick could give him, and he will know how to doctor the sick with a real knowledge of the human soul. -- Carl Jung

Now, I am sure we could argue that war is MORE for the sake of Love than Hate in motive. Is it not the love of treasure and empire, rather than the nuisance of the messyness of killing to acquire it. The real targets of the old men of oligarchy is only partially the depopulation of those who could rise up to overthrow them.
Now, the troops are used for conquest and are controlled by the puppet strings of patriotism. Psych control of troops is bolstered by the demonization of the enemy through deception. Hate is fermented in the Superego. The soldier is forced to commit inhuman act of murder:

Everything, everything in war is barbaric . . . But the worst barbarity of war is that it forces men collectively to commit acts against which individually they would revolt with their whole being. Ellen Key, 1916

"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder". Albert Einstein

Often war is waged only in order to show valor; thus an inner dignity is ascribed to war itself, and even some philosophers have praised it as an ennoblement of humanity, forgetting the pronouncement of the Greek who said, "War is an evil inasmuch as it produces more wicked men than it takes away." So much for the measures nature takes to lead the human race, considered as a class of animals, to her own end Immanuel Kant

Violence is shrouded in justifying myths that lend it moral legitimacy, and these myths for the most part kept people from recognizing the violence for what it was. The people who burned witches at the stake, never, for one moment, thought of their act as violence, rather, they though of it as an act of divinely mandated righteousness. The same can be said of most of the violence we humans have ever committed. Gil Bailie

[gr8fuldaniel]

I found that quote by Carl Jung on this page. This page is very interesting. Jung is a bit more profound than Freud.
Jung allows for a collective conscience, which may help in the study of tribal warfare and personal conscious connection to it.

On a personal level I can justify killing someone who is trying to kill me or my family.
I cannot see killing as a legit reason for making Haliburton, defense contractors and Oil company executives more wealthy than everyone else in the world.

No matter how lathered up the tribe gets about it.

Even if it means going back to horse and buggy.
Why is that so unfathomable?

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel OK, Scribbler that all makes sense. Except in public life we have penalties that multiply if a hate motive applies. The reason for this is because Hate is a disease of irrationality that condemns without subjective or objective discretion. Hate only needs an appearance and no real evidence, to damn. We have no business fighting this guerilla war, to start with.

You know I completely agree about this unnecessary and fraudulent war. We never had a legitimate reason to go in.

However, hate crimes are strictly a civilian issue and not at all applicable to any wartime situation, regardless of the reason FOR that war. As long as there have been armies, the soldiers were indoctrinated to hate whoever the "enemy" was. Like it or not it makes for a more motivated killer, which is precisely what we want a soldier to be. Hate is an army's stock in trade and unfortunately it works. I can't imagine how our soldiers at any time in history would have fared if they felt any compassion towards those they were ordered to kill.
I don't like it, but that is the reality of it. If you MUST have a war, and you truly and honestly want to win it, your soldiers MUST hate the opponent. Mankind (interesting word, eh?) will not need to hate the enemy at the same time it completely eliminates war.

[rmnunez]

This is ridiculous:

The real targets of the old men of oligarchy is only partially the depopulation of those who could rise up to overthrow them.

I'd suggest you've got your gears misaligned, the chain got tangled or something. Only a dyed-in-the-wool Marxian would pitch the problem as class war. I'm advised there are a few surviving Marxist fossils who harbour the hope of witnessing the onset of their cherished World Proletarian Revolution on May Day and with a General Strike -hopefully on a rallying call they could coin themselves; "no blood for oil" or whatever. Get with the program fellas, we're in the 3rd millenium and those days are over.

Now what prevails is a much more pragmatic approach. This was evident in the early 90s with the blissful disregard for third-world development once the Soviets vanished. Savings resulted that were redirected and inertia keeps the MIC going for decades fully-funded and adjusted for inflation, with cost-overruns no less.

With cyberspace globalization is the only track and any alternative has to overcome the quite obvious beneficence of the neoliberalist models. Chavez, Khaddafy, Castro, Slobo, Lula, or anyone else you can think of is compared with some Marxist ideal, whatever befalls them blamed on nefarious gringan manipulations. Each of these models has substantial shortcomings too. There is no coherent alternative more attractive than South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan or Thailand, Slovakia or Turkey, Egypt, Morroco or Mexico, outside of the US and EU -all offer decideldly neoliberal approaches. Where is there a model of the alternative? How atractive is it, do people migrate to it? Maybe just the 'right' people? How come you are not there?

No, there really isn't a working model out there. Migration patterns suggest lots of people think the neoliberal models are the best. They seem to favour western Europe and the US, then some of the ones mentioned and others nearby. A lot has to do with economics and quality of life, education and opportunity, but it sure seems like if people voted with their feet the US would be at the top. So lets stop characterizing things in terms of this anachronic dialectic of class warfare.

We need to break things down a bit. Its not about cultural or ideological clashes -its religious. The gringoes confront, on behalf of humanity (minus the Muslims) what can be best described as an agressive "religious uprising". The Islamic fundamentalists are the only alternative to neoliberal gringan imperialism and Marxian fellow-travellers hitch their wagons to the loser's cause. The enemy and friend dychotomy applies poorly here and silly lefties ought to put down their placcards and silly banners and engage the effort.

Take a pragmatic approach; is there any credible expectation the US armed forces in Iraq (or anywhere else) could be defeated -short of a surprise and massive nuclear exchange? Given that the Coalition will ultimately prevail in Iraq once they erradicate all insurgents or terrorists, and given that this will be done sooner, more safely and better, now than in a long drawn-out process, why gum-up the gears with detractory comments and suggestions?

Its time for all of us to get with it, put your nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel or whatever, support the effort and get it done with.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: rmnunez, Where is there a model of the alternative? How atractive is it, do people migrate to it? Maybe just the 'right' people? How come you are not there?

Because the American Experiment can work if the Constitution were given due diligence and enforcement. Despotism, unchecked Imperialism and hegemony wont work, we already know that from history.

Quote by: rmnunez, We need to break things down a bit. Its not about cultural or ideological clashes -its religious.

Or more precisely religious bigotry and ethnic cleansing, right? America should be the thought police and energy monitor for the world, not just America?

Quote by: rmnunez, The gringoes confront, on behalf of humanity (minus the Muslims) what can be best described as an agressive "religious uprising".

So this IS a crusade, even though Bush the lesser retracted that statement made on On Sept. 14, 2001?

Quote by: rmnunez, So lets stop characterizing things in terms of this anachronic dialectic of class warfare.

Right, because we really should focus on the bigger picture, World Domination. Not just class.

Take a pragmatic approach; is there any credible expectation the US armed forces in Iraq (or anywhere else) could be defeated -short of a surprise and massive nuclear exchange?

What do you mean we could be defeated?, I thought we already won? Remember, "Mission Accomplished" Was that just a joke from the sniggering chimp?

Quote by: rmnunez, Given that the Coalition will ultimately prevail in Iraq once they erradicate all insurgents or terrorists, and given that this will be done sooner, more safely and better, now than in a long drawn-out process, why gum-up the gears with detractory comments and suggestions?

"erradicate all insurgents or terrorists"Hah! Thats a good one. Dont you realize, our military is effectively recruiting for them with every bombing raid on innocent civilians. Do you think we won Viet Nam? We are in a hotbed of hate. The Iraq elections were pure bullshit, but had to be carried out guerilla warfare or not, before the SOTU address, for the sake of American Propaganda. Goebbels would have been proud. I think I'll paint my middle finger purple.
Support our troops, Bring them home now.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Me, So this IS a crusade, even though Bush the lesser retracted that statement made on On Sept. 14, 2001?

Actually it was Ari Fleischer that retracted the statement, so we dont know if Bush minor actually retracted it from his 'holier than thou' mentality.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Paavo Ouch... that'll look swell in the eyes of the Arab world. Well, more recruits for terrorist groups heading for American soil. :(

It sounds you dream it will happen.
I hope all the terrorists pack up on that wagon, so U.S. finish them at once, and for good.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: tinybear US General Says It's Fun To Shoot People

That is not exactly what he meant. That phrase is pulled out of the whole statement.
It would not be exactly "fun" for me to eliminate terrorists, but no mercy of any kind or fomr whatsoever to them. That is what he meant.

Erudition is not the strongest part of his education, at least, while onomastics is the key, in such cases. How did he graduated West Point ??? Nobel for that guy.