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Melvyn · Feb 2, 2005, 06:47 pm

After a lifetime of support for the State Of Israel and a number of years of study and questioning, I have formed some opinions about the conflict between the Israelis and the Palstinians. I have written a long article in my blog. If anyone cares to read it, I would appreciate the commentary.

http://radio.weblogs.com/0137954/2005/02/02.html

Melvyn Polatchek

PatrickHenry · Feb 2, 2005, 10:31 pm

OK, Mel. Read your blog. I am a pro-jew, anti-Zionist with pacifistic tendencies. Sorta like the True Torah Jews http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ or the Jews Not Zionists http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/index.htm
I am an evangelical Christian with Jewish relatives whom I love and respect. But I think Zionism has failed Jews worldwide, causing more problems than it has solved. You are likely correct in assuming that the UN partition plan was to spare the member nations the obligation of dealing with displaced Jews. But Jews in America have long had a fairly good experience. If I was a Jew, I would much prefer a life in America to life in Israel.

On the question of what to do for the Israelis: try real negotiations; put it all on the table now with a new Palestinian chairman. Be ready to remove the settlers by force, and don't retaliate by destroying the buildings in the settlements. Give them to the Palestinians as a gesture of peace and change. I recognize that neither party has been a very good partner in what little dialog there has been. But isn't it time to try? This problem won't go away with the type of behavior we have seen so far. Hasn't there been enough blood? The time is now for compromise.

tinybear · Feb 3, 2005, 03:37 am

It's a myth that you can live in the same house with your enemy. It simply cannot and will not happen. There will be no real peace in the Middle East unless one side utterly destroys the other.

PatrickHenry · Feb 3, 2005, 03:41 am

That's a vicious and bloodthirsty statement, tinybear. A plague upon your house...

tinybear · Feb 3, 2005, 03:48 am

What? You can't handle the truth?

**Matt W** · Feb 3, 2005, 05:37 am

TB, try looking at South Africa. Or Northern Ireland. Then re-evaluate.

tinybear · Feb 3, 2005, 06:28 am

What about South Africa? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1329449.stm

**Matt W** · Feb 3, 2005, 06:31 am

Good've you to choose an article that was 4 years old there. Next?

**Chris the Chees** · Feb 3, 2005, 09:40 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

It's a myth that you can live in the same house with your enemy. It simply cannot and will not happen. There will be no real peace in the Middle East unless one side utterly destroys the other.

Thats rubbish, look at Northen Ireland.

bishop · Feb 3, 2005, 10:18 am

another fault of the u.n. is with its refugee resettlement agency. that agency has successfully resettled people all over the world - the only place that it's failed to my knowledge is in palestine. undoubtedly, the reason for that failure is that neighboring countries say they can't take them in for financial & economic reasons. they have, however, allowed some in and that should be noted.

that said, the palestinians already have a home. and their home is constantly being encroached upon by israeli radicals (the settlers). i agree with PH that the government should be prepared to move the settlers out by force if necessary. the resolution of this issue is not only important to the region, but also for our country. time and time again (for decades now), we've told the israelis to stop the settlements. and time and time again, they've ignored our good judgement while gleefully asking for more and more foreign aid/welfare. from a purely american perspective, we should be using money's persuasive power to force israel's government to do what it ought to do.

also, as far as i understand, israel's electoral system benefits the settlers by giving them a disproportionate advantage.

tinybear · Feb 3, 2005, 11:07 am

Quote:

Quote by: Chris the Chees

Thats rubbish, look at Northen Ireland.

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/078446.htm

bishop · Feb 3, 2005, 11:15 am

do us a favor tinybear.. stop wasting space here with your one lined replies. and this last one.. a friggin link is not a legitimate post. read the etiquette again since you're totally not following it whatsoever.

**Matt W** · Feb 3, 2005, 11:21 am

TB, that's a blog, not a legitimate news site. Besides which, it seems to be a general description of the Troubles - rather than what the situation is now - which is a strained, but mostly effective ceasefire by the major terrorist groups. Have you been to Belfast? No? Then you wouldn't know what a fun & friendly city it can be - even if you're English.

In the meanwhile, I ask again - what about South Africa?

tinybear · Feb 3, 2005, 11:40 am

What about it?

allen · Feb 3, 2005, 11:43 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

It's a myth that you can live in the same house with your enemy. It simply cannot and will not happen. There will be no real peace in the Middle East unless one side utterly destroys the other.

Probaly you need an authority, like communists, to force all sides sit down and reconcile. Then after 50 years or more, go to democracy.

tinybear · Feb 3, 2005, 11:50 am

Hmm, maybe that's right. But why the commies? Why not the superpower of the world, i.e. the USA? Oh, but wait, USA has already tried that, and umpteenth ceasefires and peace agreements (not to mention a few Nobel Peace Prizes) later , the Israelis and Palestinians are still killing each other. Why do you think that's so?

**Pooeypants** · Feb 3, 2005, 11:57 am

Because the US has unconditional support for Israel and is giving billions of dollars to them each year?

tinybear · Feb 3, 2005, 12:15 pm

No, because you cannot force two sworn enemies to live with each other in perfect harmony.

bishop · Feb 3, 2005, 12:26 pm

what you're doing, aside from completely derailing melvyn's thread, is using extremist examples to stereotype two diverse groups of people. there are MANY moderates amongst both the israelis and palestinians.. just as the silent majority in america is constantly screwed over by the political elite, so too are moderates in israel/palestine. the israelis by large support withdrawing the settlements - it is the radical settlers who are fervently opposed. and i'm convinced that there are many palestinians who simply want a good peaceful life for themselves and their families. there are how many palestinians versus the few that make the news every night?

tinybear · Feb 3, 2005, 12:57 pm

How have I derailed this thread? Those who raised South Africa and Northern Ireland probably did. I kept to the topic and my point simply is enemies can't live together.

Feb 2, 2005, 06:47 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Melvyn Igneous Magma Posts: 229	An American Jew Thinks About Israel/Palestine After a lifetime of support for the State Of Israel and a number of years of study and questioning, I have formed some opinions about the conflict between the Israelis and the Palstinians. I have written a long article in my blog. If anyone cares to read it, I would appreciate the commentary. http://radio.weblogs.com/0137954/2005/02/02.html Melvyn Polatchek

Feb 2, 2005, 10:31 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455	OK, Mel. Read your blog. I am a pro-jew, anti-Zionist with pacifistic tendencies. Sorta like the True Torah Jews http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ or the Jews Not Zionists http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/index.htm I am an evangelical Christian with Jewish relatives whom I love and respect. But I think Zionism has failed Jews worldwide, causing more problems than it has solved. You are likely correct in assuming that the UN partition plan was to spare the member nations the obligation of dealing with displaced Jews. But Jews in America have long had a fairly good experience. If I was a Jew, I would much prefer a life in America to life in Israel. On the question of what to do for the Israelis: try real negotiations; put it all on the table now with a new Palestinian chairman. Be ready to remove the settlers by force, and don't retaliate by destroying the buildings in the settlements. Give them to the Palestinians as a gesture of peace and change. I recognize that neither party has been a very good partner in what little dialog there has been. But isn't it time to try? This problem won't go away with the type of behavior we have seen so far. Hasn't there been enough blood? The time is now for compromise. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Feb 3, 2005, 03:41 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455	That's a vicious and bloodthirsty statement, tinybear. A plague upon your house... "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Feb 3, 2005, 11:57 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,609	Because the US has unconditional support for Israel and is giving billions of dollars to them each year? War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Feb 3, 2005, 03:37 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	It's a myth that you can live in the same house with your enemy. It simply cannot and will not happen. There will be no real peace in the Middle East unless one side utterly destroys the other.

Feb 3, 2005, 03:48 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	What? You can't handle the truth?

Feb 3, 2005, 05:37 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 7,197	TB, try looking at South Africa. Or Northern Ireland. Then re-evaluate.

Feb 3, 2005, 06:28 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	What about South Africa? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1329449.stm

Feb 3, 2005, 06:31 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 7,197	Good've you to choose an article that was 4 years old there. Next?

Feb 3, 2005, 10:18 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	another fault of the u.n. is with its refugee resettlement agency. that agency has successfully resettled people all over the world - the only place that it's failed to my knowledge is in palestine. undoubtedly, the reason for that failure is that neighboring countries say they can't take them in for financial & economic reasons. they have, however, allowed some in and that should be noted. that said, the palestinians already have a home. and their home is constantly being encroached upon by israeli radicals (the settlers). i agree with PH that the government should be prepared to move the settlers out by force if necessary. the resolution of this issue is not only important to the region, but also for our country. time and time again (for decades now), we've told the israelis to stop the settlements. and time and time again, they've ignored our good judgement while gleefully asking for more and more foreign aid/welfare. from a purely american perspective, we should be using money's persuasive power to force israel's government to do what it ought to do. also, as far as i understand, israel's electoral system benefits the settlers by giving them a disproportionate advantage.

Feb 3, 2005, 11:15 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	do us a favor tinybear.. stop wasting space here with your one lined replies. and this last one.. a friggin link is not a legitimate post. read the etiquette again since you're totally not following it whatsoever.

Feb 3, 2005, 11:21 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 7,197	TB, that's a blog, not a legitimate news site. Besides which, it seems to be a general description of the Troubles - rather than what the situation is now - which is a strained, but mostly effective ceasefire by the major terrorist groups. Have you been to Belfast? No? Then you wouldn't know what a fun & friendly city it can be - even if you're English. In the meanwhile, I ask again - what about South Africa?

Feb 3, 2005, 11:40 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	What about it?

Feb 3, 2005, 11:50 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	Hmm, maybe that's right. But why the commies? Why not the superpower of the world, i.e. the USA? Oh, but wait, USA has already tried that, and umpteenth ceasefires and peace agreements (not to mention a few Nobel Peace Prizes) later , the Israelis and Palestinians are still killing each other. Why do you think that's so?

Feb 3, 2005, 12:15 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	No, because you cannot force two sworn enemies to live with each other in perfect harmony.

Feb 3, 2005, 12:26 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	what you're doing, aside from completely derailing melvyn's thread, is using extremist examples to stereotype two diverse groups of people. there are MANY moderates amongst both the israelis and palestinians.. just as the silent majority in america is constantly screwed over by the political elite, so too are moderates in israel/palestine. the israelis by large support withdrawing the settlements - it is the radical settlers who are fervently opposed. and i'm convinced that there are many palestinians who simply want a good peaceful life for themselves and their families. there are how many palestinians versus the few that make the news every night?

Feb 3, 2005, 12:57 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	How have I derailed this thread? Those who raised South Africa and Northern Ireland probably did. I kept to the topic and my point simply is enemies can't live together.