Bush Asks For Patience!!

[bishop]

Quote by: USMC Retired And if I spent the time, I am sure I could find 20 stories to refute your 2.... then you would find 200 and I would find 2000..... and so on, ad infinitum.... Bud, it's a BIG military, and nothing is ever PERFECT. But instead of BITCHING about it, what are YOU doing to make things BETTER? Did you send that soldier (whom you appear to be so concerned over) any money to help him and his family out? Did you make any calls on his behalf, write any letters? How about your Vietnam friends? Have you done anything for them? Or do you just sit there on your duff (I really wanted to use another phrase, but don't wish to be kicked off this forum just yet!) and BITCH about things??? Either you're part of the SOLUTION, or you're a part of the PROBLEM! Richard Reid USMC Retired

nope, i'm not sending them any of my money. i didn't push the button to send them there, so let them get help from someone else. nobody's helping me pay my bills, so... not to mention that my tax dollars are being spent on the military - so i already did give money! from my perspective, my interests supercede those of the troops.

it would be nice, however, to see the organization that they put their faith in treat them right. that seems more fair than expecting random people to subsidize their care (as if we don't already pay enough with our taxes). nope.. i pay my taxes, and the military already has a shit ton of money available to care for its soldiers (provided by the american taxpayer). i'm hardly the problem buddy, your superiors are.

and p.s... my vietnam friends aren't looking for individuals to "help them out".. they're looking for the benefits that they are ENTITLED TO. hopefully you can understand that, although it seems that you're going to be an apologist instead.

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: bishop nope, i'm not sending them any of my money... from my perspective, my interests supercede those of the troops.... hopefully you can understand that, although it seems that you're going to be an apologist instead.

Just as I suspected..... you're nothing but a WINDBAG! All BLOW and no GO!

Richard Reid USMC Retired

[USMC Retired]

Hero Report: B.J. Jackson

B.J. was born on June 12, 1981 in Des Moines, Iowa. He graduated in May, 1999 from Lincoln High School in Des Moines, Iowa.

October 1999, B.J. enlisted in the National Guard, underwent Basic Training at Fort Benning, Georgia and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Lee, Virginia where he learned skills as a Supply and small arms specialist. After National Guard training, B.J. returned to Iowa where he worked various roofing, home improvement and landscaping jobs until his Guard Unit received orders for active duty in February of 2003.

February 2003, through March of 2003, B. J.'s unit left Iowa for Wisconsin for additional military training.

April 2003, B.J. arrived in Kuwait to await orders for deployment in Iraq. Then B.J. was selected to be part of an advance team tasked with setting up camp and headquarters for his entire unit's arrival in Iraq. His unit was positioned just outside of Baghdad.

May through August 2003, B.J worked with his unit performing various Military Police duties and engaging in convoy support around Baghdad.

August 7, 2003, B.J. was enjoying his first day off from duty in nearly a month and was visiting the commercial district of Baghdad. He was driving a vehicle with two other soldiers riding with him. The vehicle struck a land mine and was then immediately hit by a rocket propelled grenade. Several hours lapsed as solders fought off the terrorist attack and worked to extract B.J. from his vehicle and transport him to safety.

B.J. was airlifted to an Iraqi field hospital for immediate care and was then taken to Kuwait and on to Germany for additional treatment. He arrived at the Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas on August 12th to begin long-term recovery and re-habilitation from severe burns and the loss of both legs below the knees.

November 2003, B.J. had recovered enough to begin the process of learning to use his prosthetic legs. Remarkably, by early December, he was skiing on his new legs at a resort in Breckenridge, Colorado

Has B.J's injury changed his life? He jokes that once he is discharged from the National Guard, he doubts that he will take up roofing. His message to fellow Veterans who may face similar challenges as a result of serious war injuries is one of strength and optimism.

“You only limit yourself, don't let anyone limit you,” says Jackson. “Learn from other people and learn to adapt. I got new legs in November and was skiing by December.”

[USMC Retired]

Thank you America. There aren't enough words to say how much we appreciate your support. During these troubled times it peaceful to our hearts and minds to know that everyone back home appreciates what we do. We will always be your guardians of freedom and your support is always a boost whenever we are serving our great country. Again I say thankyou. Godspeed and God bless the USA!!!
1LT Jonathan Aplin, Montgomery, AL


Thank you to everybody for your support. Your support makes our jobs and lives a lot easier.
SGT Robert J. Hunt, Santa Maria, CA, CA


Hello America, On behalf of myself and my fellow troops of Charlie Company, 3rd Batallion, 172nd Infantry (Mountain), I wish to thank you all for your support, thank you's, and your prayers. Knowing we have such great support from home helps us to be able too do our jobs here in Iraq more efficiently and successfully. Thank you all from the bottoms of our hearts.
SPC Marc Chubbuck, North Conway, NH


Thank you all who support us. God bless you all.
Tsgt Phillippi Sam, W. middlesex, PA


I would like to say thank you to everyone who has written, mailed, or otherwise supported us. It means a lot to see so many people who care. Iraq is a rough place and the warmth in the letters, packages, and the words we receive make our job so much easier. Thanks.
Spc Gude Leonard, Lutz, FL


During my time in Iraq I have seen more Love and Support from home than I expected. This War on Terrorism will not be won by the Troops alone. You supporters are keeping us in the game, giving us the passion that it takes to go out and complete our mission. After all, If not for you, why would we fight? Everything that you do to support the troops is a Blessing and will always be remembered. Thank you!!
SSG Joseph A. Wood, Ocala, FL


Thanks to all the people who support what we do. I am now in Japan after the time I spent liberating the Iraqi people. I know what the troops are going through over there. Keep your heads down but your spirits up!!! Semper Fi
Cpl Morris, Fleming, CO, AP


Thank you to everyone who has taken time to post messages of support. We couldn't do it without the support we have from the wonderful people back home.
SGT Mark Stach, Dixon, IL


My family shows their support by being in the military. Both my husband and I are active duty and have served time overseas. My nephew recently returned from Iraq and is preparing for another long deployment. I want to thank all of you who show your support to all active duty overseas. Every bit of mail, email and package counts.
Gina, Merced, CA


I am a member of the oklahoma air national guard. I support you guys and gals and look forward to serving there with you all soon.
SRA Erik A. Owens, Sapulpa, OK


Thanks for all the support. Being away from our loved ones is hard but knowing Americans are taking time out of their busy schedules to show their support, really improves our morale. Thank you.
Master Sgt. Wynn, Chicago, IL


I am currently serving in Baghdad, Iraq. I would like to say THANK YOU to all of you who offer us a daily reminder of why we are here. It is the Spirit of the American people that makes our country great. Your love, support and prayers make this difficult job a little bit easier. Thank You from the bottom of my heart.
Larry Walker, Richmond, VA, AE


As an Airman that just got back from Iraq, I just wanted to say thank you for all your support. It is you for whom I serve, and seeing this website with all the the letters of encouragement, reminds me of why I joined. Thank you and God Bless,
Staff Sgt. Adam M. Herr, Minneapolis, MN


It really means a lot to see all the support out there. Thank you!
SSgt Jennifer Watson, Harrisburg, PA


It's good to know that people back home really do care and are supporting us as we try to make it a safer world. It is great encouragement to receive letters and care packages from family and friends, but it's just amazing when we receive letters and packages from total strangers. Our company has many school kids drawings and letters hanging on the walls, and even some stuffed animals we received. Thank you for your support, as we keep up the fight to end terrorism and make the world a safer place for everyone. Pfc. Caldera 2 ID Waco,TX
Pfc. Caldera, A CO 1-503d Infantry, 2ID, Waco, TX


Thank you to everyone who has taken time to post messages of support. We couldn't do it without the support we have from the wonderful people back home.
SGT Mark Stach, Deployed to Iraq, IL


I want to thank all of the United States for your support of myself and Troops still deployed. Regardless of how small the package, letter, or card, we really do appreciate thought. Thank You,
Gil R Major, Lutz, Fl (Stationed Savannah, Ga), GA


"Thank you" I couldn't tell you how much those two words mean to me. After all the things I have been through and experienced. Just hearing some expressing their appreciation for me and all my fellow brothers in arms and all that we have done. Thank you for your support of us.
Frank, SC, AA


I just wanted to say thank you for all the care packages we have received. It really helps the single troops not only during the holiday season but year round. Again Thanks ....
M.A. Booth, Det. MI., AE


Serving my country and my troops in the country of Iraq and proud to be here. God Bless America!!!
Debbie Lee, Houston, AE

I have been home for just over a year now from the middle east. I still see more and more love from the American public, it is very much appreciated. Please don't ever forget the soldiers who lost their lives. They are the true heroes. Thank you for all your support.
SSG Dennis Crump, Brutus, MN


It's good to know that people back home really do care and are supporting us as we try to make it a safer world. It is great encouragement to receive letters and care packages from family and friends, but it's just amazing when we receive letters and packages from total strangers. Our company has many school kids drawings and letters hanging on the walls, and even some stuffed animals we received. Thank you for your support, as we keep up the fight to end terrorism and make the world a safer place for everyone.
Pfc. Caldera, Waco, TX


Hello from Bagram Afghanistan! I just wanted to extend my thanks to all of you who support us here and in Iraq. Your continued prayers and gifts of gratitude keep the reason we are here in the forefront of our minds. Sometimes because of the stress of our jobs and the stress of being away from our families consumes us and we forget why we are here. Then someone brings in a box of cookies, a heart felt card, or a phone card from those who support us, and it reminds us that we are not here just for ourselves but an entire country of freedom loving people. Please continue to pray for us. You have my most sincere gratitude God Bless,
Staff Sgt. B.J. Ivey, USAF, Houston, Texas, AE


My sincere gratitude to every single American back home. We miss you as much as you miss us, don't take life for granted, get out and experience it, being deployed teaches a key factor to us, that moments in life are very short, so you should make every bit of them as memorable as possible. Please seek our your local VFW, American Legion, cemetary, and please lay a flower on the resting place of someone who served. Semper Fi
Lance Cpl. Alan J. Stinar, Hibbing, MN, AP


Hello All, Thank you for your support during our deployed time here in Kuwait in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. A special thanks to the folks at Naval Medical Center - Portsmouth for allowing us the time to be here to help our fellow brothers and sisters. A very special thanks to the Linda Hayes and the folks at Freedom Packages in Illinois who have been sending us care packages for the past 8 months. Those packages have made us pass the time here more comforting and being at the US Military Hospital in Kuwait, our patients have enjoyed the goodies tremendously. Thank you all for your prayers and support. God Bless you all.
HM3 Karl Daley, Far Rockaway, NY, AE


I am a soldier in iraq right now with the first infantry division. As i was checking my email today i looked up and saw a letter from a little girl that had written to us. It was a simple letter saying how she was proud to have us fighting for her freedom and thanking us. It is really good to know that there are people out there who support us and are thankfull for what we do. I know that it means a lot to these guys out here and even though they may not always have time to write back we appreciate it alot. So as I can not write to every little girl and boy that writes to us I am writing you guys.... thank you!!!
SPC Michael Bushfield


Hello from FOB McHenry Iraq. I just wanted to let everyone know that the men and I are all greatful for everything that you are doing to show us your support. Your continued support following our extension is needed now more than ever! Keep up the great work! We feel the support! Alpha Company "Gunslingers", 1/27 Infantry, 25th ID Deployed Jan 21 2004 - ???
SGT Carlos Castillo, Los Angeles, CA


WE REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF THE SUPPORT THAT EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY HAS FOR OUR ARMED FORCES. YOU MAY THINK THAT JUST ONE PERSON DOESN'T MATTER BUT ALL IT TAKES IS ONE PERSON, TO CHANGE A LIFE, OR THE MORAL OF MANY. THANK YOU FOR ALL THE LOVE AND SUPPORT. IT DOESN'T GO UNNOTICED.
CPL ANNETTE WAYERSKI, WAUKEGAN, CA


This "Thank You" goes out to all the people around the world who support the military. The servicemembers really appreciate everything everyone has done for us. I am currently stationed in Baghdad, Iraq. My unit has enjoyed all the care packages we have received from our hometowns, as well as from people we don't even know. Once again, "Thanks!"
SGT Troy Thomas, Ashtabula, OH

[bishop]

your assertions are of no consequence to me. you clearly want to chastize the taxpayer, rather than the organization responsible for the soldiers' well being.

i do donate money to people who are constantly ignored however.. like refugees, child slaves, etc. why should i give more money to an organization that is already swimming in money? amazing that someone would chastize a taxpayer for "failing" to pay for soldiers when that's the military's job to take care of them! if it wasn't for the taxpayer, the military wouldn't even be able to afford things like $600 toilet bowl seats!

incredible logic you have. :rolleyes:

[bishop]

just curious, what was the point of pasting all those messages? a link would've been sufficient. if you were looking for some sort of emotional reaction from me, you aren't going to get one - i'm not impressed by those letters. obviously any soldier would appreciate receiving support. i'd also like to support them - by sending all of them home, to the families they miss and love! that'd beat the piss out of any care package you can put together any day of the week. :)

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: bishop your assertions are of no consequence to me. you clearly want to chastize the taxpayer, rather than the organization responsible for the soldiers' well being. i do donate money to people who are constantly ignored however.. like refugees, child slaves, etc. why should i give more money to an organization that is already swimming in money? amazing that someone would chastize a taxpayer for "failing" to pay for soldiers when that's the military's job to take care of them! if it wasn't for the taxpayer, the military wouldn't even be able to afford things like $600 toilet bowl seats! incredible logic you have. :rolleyes:

You miss the point, Bishop. I'm not "chastizing" anyone. YOU are the one saying how awful it is the way these soldiers and vets are treated. I simply asked if it bothered YOU so much, what are YOU doing about it? Are you doing anything about it...... besides BITCHING? Apparently not. My point is if BITCHING is ALL you are going to do... then you are part of the PROBLEM, not a part of the SOLUTION.

BTW, who ever told you that the military is "swimming in money"? I had more than my share of deciding what items to include in a budget each year.... what we NEEDED, what we wanted but had to find a way with doing without.... $600 toilet seats.... yes.... there are mistakes.... but then again, you NEVER hear about the military folks that did their best to SAVE money for their units, did you? Does that mean they don't exist? (Well in YOUR world, they probably DON'T exist. It would put a damper on your world view if you had to admit to their contributions, wouldn't it)

Richard Reid USMC Retired

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: bishop just curious, what was the point of pasting all those messages?

The POINT, Bishop, is that if you READ what those folks have to say, you might just get the idea that those folks BELIEVE in what they are doing. That's not to say that they want to be there.... I didn't want to be in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.... but they feel (as I felt) that it's a job that NEEDS to be done. Bah, you will NEVER understand..... why am I even wasting my time with you?

Richard Reid USMC Retired

[RickSp]

Exactly where the heroism is in fighting and dying in a needless and immoral war escapes me. Likewise while I understand why it might be important to tell yourself that that you are fighting to "defend your country" even while leveling Fallujah. Nevertheless, it does nothing to change the underlying reality - Bush's adventure in Mesopotamia fundamentally weakens the defense of our country.

Well over ten thousand good Americans have been killed or wounded, while tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians have been slaughtered. All justified by lies and deciet.

We all should support our troops. We should bring them home.

Ex-U.S. Marine: I Killed Civilians in Iraq

Here is commentary from STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY, USMC (ret):

Really, what led up to my disgust with the war was the civilian casualties that we were inflicting. We were given intelligence reports -- the civilian casualties really started taking place after we left the town of Anu Mannia on the drive north towards Baghdad. We were getting intelligence reports from higher command saying that the Fedayeen and Republican Guards were trading in their uniforms for civilian clothes, and they were mounting terrorist attacks against U.S. soldiers and marines using guerrilla-style tactics, suicide bombings. They were using civilians as human shields. They were loading down stolen ambulances and police cars with explosives. So, as we progressed on towards Baghdad, our fears and anxieties were heightened, and also due to the lack of sleep, some of us had less than 48 hours of sleep getting into Baghdad. So, whenever we were placed into these situations where civilian vehicles were coming up to our checkpoints, and not heeding our warning shot, we were lighting them up. What I mean by lighting them up, we were discharging our weapons, 50 cals and M-16's into the civilian vehicles. When we would do this, we were expecting secondary explosions, ammunition to be cooking off or actually have the occupants in the vehicle fire back at us. However, none of this ever happened. When we would go to search the vehicles, we would find no weapons, and nothing to link these individuals with -- these individuals with terrorists acts. And this happened continuously through the fall of Baghdad. I would say my platoon alone killed 30-plus innocent civilians.

[bishop]

oh.. it doesn't really bother me all that much. it is, however, a crying shame that you'd expect a private citizen to do something that the military's already funded and expected to do. that is, to care for the soldiers. i definitely appreciate measures to save money - too bad that wasteful spending always seems to supercede those measures. kinda like the billions pissed down the drain on the commanche project and that artillery project rummy fought to scrap. or the billions pissed away on our missile defense system that won't defend us from any missiles anytime soon. did you know that the soldiers in iraq where having their laundry cleaned in KUWAIT??? i guess someone figured that their laundry would enjoy a ride in the desert. how about the meal stipend given to iraqi council members? i believe they were given something like $500 a day to each member for food. how about all the reconstruction contracts that were given out to campaign contributors for million$, while iraqis could've done the work for much less?

and, i wouldn't make assumptions about my world view.. you're most likely assuming that i'm some fairy anti-war lefty. if you are, you're completely wrong.

[bishop]

The POINT, Bishop, is that if you READ what those folks have to say, you might just get the idea that those folks BELIEVE in what they are doing. That's not to say that they want to be there.... I didn't want to be in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.... but they feel (as I felt) that it's a job that NEEDS to be done. Bah, you will NEVER understand..... why am I even wasting my time with you?

just because they may believe in what they're doing doesn't mean that i should. and, it doesn't justify how bush lied his way to get his war, sticking them in that mess called iraq.

but for the wounded soldiers who just got their nuts blown off, if justifying their condition as being a necessary service for THEIR country (not to be confused with foreigners) makes them feel better, then so be it.

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: RickSp Ex-U.S. Marine: I Killed Civilians in Iraq

Lets see..... I went and looked at the web site you listed above..... yep, it sure looks like an UNBIASED source of information to me..... right!

BTW, if they came up to a check point that I had been manning, and refused to stop when told to, I'd have blown their shit away as well. How STUPID do you have to be not to stop when a WARNING shot is fired? If the Marine quoted in the article had a problem with that.... I'd bet his troops didn't!

Richard Reid USMC Retired

[RickSp]

Are you calling Jimmy Massey, a US Marine Corp Staff Sergent with a 12 year record, a liar? Are you suggesting that your quotes are unbiased?

Returning Veterans Paint Grim Picture Of War's Toll

Soldiers recently returned from Iraq gave an unfiltered and unflattering assessment of the war's human toll as they detailed their war experiences to a crowd of Oakton Community College students and faculty Wednesday in Des Plaines. One officer lost more than 38 pounds in the Iraqi desert when his unit ran low on food and water. Another was sent to the front lines without body armor. They witnessed soldiers blown to bits and mourned the loss of others who killed themselves when they returned home -- often excluded from the government's official body count. And they've been frustrated with buddies who have had to wait months for medical services or for their claims to be decided by the Veterans Affairs Department. 'People are unaware' "There's a tremendous human cost of this war, and America isn't prepared for it," said Paul Rieckhoff, a former Army infantry platoon leader from New York and founder of Operation Truth, a national soldier organization that is touring college campuses to present an alternative view of the war. Rieckhoff criticized the military for not releasing the entire number of those killed or injured in Iraq, a figure he said is far greater than the 1,416 listed as killed and 10,622 listed as wounded by the Defense Department. "It takes guys like us to embarrass [Defense Secretary Donald] Rumsfeld before things get changed," he said. "The military is being run into the ground, and the American people are unaware of what's really going on."

[USMC Retired]

No, I am not calling him a liar..... I simply state that his is only one opinion. As I pointed out before, for every one negative opinion you can dredge up, I can find a counteracting positive opinion. We can play this "tit for tat" game all day and night long..... it is obvious that I will never change your opinion of things..... any more than YOU will ever change my opinion. However, it sure is fun (for me at least) to TRY!

[bishop]

you know.. i remember when rummy went before the troops and received some hot and heavy questions.. now, i might not be a military guy, but when the soldiers asked their questions, it sure sounded like their comrades were in total agreement with the poor conditions they face.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: USMC Retired The POINT, Bishop, is that if you READ what those folks have to say, you might just get the idea that those folks BELIEVE in what they are doing. That's not to say that they want to be there.... I didn't want to be in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.... but they feel (as I felt) that it's a job that NEEDS to be done. Bah, you will NEVER understand..... why am I even wasting my time with you? Richard Reid USMC Retired

And I believed in what I was doing during the Vietnam war. Imagine my surprise to read later that McNamara knew all along that we couldn't win there. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was nothing more than a put-up job done to justify the expansion of a war we had no business being in. Years later, we got the same cry of wolf from a government bent on waging war for a political agenda, this time in the form of WMD's. I came from a small town of about 2500 people. Six of my friends and neighbors never came back from Vietnam. I don't feel like sacrificing any more Americans to free a country that didn't have the nerve to free itself. Maybe before you go on with your unconditional support of this illegitimate war you ought to read McNamara's book (In Retrospect : The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam). See for yourself the differences in what our "leaders" say, and what they really believe.

"That's one of the major lessons: no president should ever take this nation to war without full public debate in the Congress and/or in the public." - Robert McNamara

[Rainbow]

Quote by: giuliano how much control the US retains after elections, and so-called sovereignty continues to take hold in iraq, remains to be seen.

Are you suggesting that U.S. is going to copy previously "developed" political models for Iraq, just as it takes place in Saudi Arabia (for example) ?
I am scheptical that U.S. can afford it. It is too risky and may appear as a backfire with much worsen results. U.S. needs "assurance" that the Iraqi political system is going to be stable and serve well for all the Iraqis. That gives U.S. steady political situation, and - by that account - steady oil supplies, marketting fields, ect. that all together bring economy to grow for both U.S. and Iraq.
U.S. does not want to see yet another "flexible" Saudi Arabia's copy. Iraq - in order to progress - must have stable political structure that will provide "worry-free" bases for :
- military and intelligence sources
- oil
Marketting is the part that will revive U.S. economy and cover most of U.S. funds invested and spent on that whole U.S. action in Iraq, so that appx $300 billion (granted by U.S. Congress today) would bring sufficient profits that cover all the expenses plus provide some extra profits.
That is what the whole business is all about : money.

[giuliano]

Quote by: Rainbow Are you suggesting that U.S. is going to copy previously "developed" political models for Iraq, just as it takes place in Saudi Arabia (for example) ? I am scheptical that U.S. can afford it. It is too risky and may appear as a backfire with much worsen results. U.S. needs "assurance" that the Iraqi political system is going to be stable and serve well for all the Iraqis. That gives U.S. steady political situation, and - by that account - steady oil supplies, marketting fields, ect. that all together bring economy to grow for both U.S. and Iraq..

i think you make some very good points.

the saudi model is a bittersweet one for the US. on some levels, it works extremely well. in particular, the relationship between the saudi leaders and the US was for some time very strong, and this undoubtedly yielded strong benefits for both sides.

however it is also a bitter one, as it has slowly gone sour for both of them. 9/11 was the turning point for that, and today saudi-US relations are a lot more tense.

i agree with you that the US is unlikely to build iraq based on the saudi model. they will opt for a more open, democratic system of govt and relationship. however i don't agree they will just give 100% sovereignty to iraq and hope for the best. that is not how the US plays the game.

it is very likely no one party will win govt in iraq, and that it will be a coalition. this will include parties that come under the influence of the US, such as allawi's. iraq will remain for a long time highly dependent on foreign assistance, which means to a large degree that of the US, and those favours aren't distributed for free.