Bush Asks For Patience!!

[bishop]

i think our "leadership" views the entire world as children who need supervision. this includes oil producers as well as countries dependent on oil, like china. we are in the business of controlling the global economy, not solely oil flows.

about investments... they all invest in developed economies. aside from oil revenues, the only other way to earn serious income is to invest it. i can't nail down solid data yet, but it's clear from what i've seen that the iranians are heavily invested in foreign markets, including the u.s.. you'll notice that from the article i linked, the iranians also seem sympathetic to the effects of high oil prices, and say that they'd like prices to be lower (but not much lower).

the big deal about iraq was that we fundamentally changed their currency, making it reliant on the dollar. plus, the fact that we've floated this newborn currency speaks volumes about our intentions.. developing countries like china and india took years to move away from fixed FX rates and into mixed basket rates. many eastern european countries, and most south american countries still use fixed rates. it's amazing that iraq somehow is past them and has moved immediately towards floating rates. what this means for iraq is that their currency has become a specuator's wet dream - and it is incredibly vulnerable to speculative attacks. just do a google search for "buy dinar" and look at all the links you're presented with.

imo, this is the real economic reason why we invaded, not oil. oil is the secondary purpose, if it's even a reason at all. we've seen theories stating that we did this so that we could permanently link the dollar to iraq's oil commodities. if our arch-nemesis iran won't convert to the euro for pricing, then i doubt anyone else will. plus, any change in pricing (to another currency) will happen years/decades from now as this is not something so simple that you do it overnight. what is much more plausible are foreign central banks filling their reserves with currencies other than dollars.

the fastest growing financial industry in the world is the currency market, and i'm certain that this factored into our decision-making process. i bet i could find FX market data showing the jump that happened the instant we introduced the new dinar to traders.

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio 12 years was long enough. Sorry you guys lost that one too. As for the crash, it happens in peace, it sucks, but it has nothing to do with "the war" Shit happens when you fly.

No, Mr. Vicchio, they do NOT "get it." They sit in their ivory towers, wearing their rose colored glasses, and imagine the world as they would like it to be. If only they would take off the glasses, come down from the tower, and experience the REAL WORLD, as it really is.

For twelve years, Saddam lead their beloved U.N. inspectors around by the NOSE.... showing them only what he wanted them to see. Surprising then, that the inspectors didn't find anything? What a joke!

Next, the "WMD's". You want to find Saddam's WMD's? Then I suggest you go dig around in Syria or Iraq. That is where you will find his WMD's. My god, he had enough NOTICE that we were coming. He could have (and DID!) move anything that he didn't want to be found.

The crash. Yes, shit happens. Military aircraft do crash. I spent 20 years in the Marine Corps, and lost some very good friends in crashes. It's a sad thing..... but you don't stop flying just because there are accidents from time to time.

Lastly, I've been following the election coverage this morning. One thing I heard caught my attention.... the report of THOUSANDS of people walking THIRTEEN MILES just to be able to vote. Imagine that.... walking thirteen miles, just to be able to vote in an election. Knowing that there have been threats to to maim and kill, to bomb and shoot.... and doing it anyway. Imagine, just how IMPORTANT this election must have been to these people for them to do that. And then ask those people if we, the U.S.A. did the "right thing" in kicking out Saddam.

Richard Reid, USMC Retired

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: Zeebadee What a crock! When the names and ranks are released, we'll see how many of these dead were reservists that wouldn't have been on duty if it weren't for Bush's war. You might as well claim that all the dead have "nothing to do with "the war"", since everybody dies eventually anyway.

I've got news for you. EVERY ONE of those reservists were VOLUNTEERS. Do you understand the meaning of that word? They volunteered to serve, and did their duty. How about YOU? Were you ever in the military? Do you have any CONCEPT of the meaning of the words "duty","honor", "loyalty"? Yes, those people dies..... doing something that they BELIEVED in.

What do YOU "believe" in?????

Richard Reid, USMC Retired

[RickSp]

Quote by: USMC Retired I've got news for you. EVERY ONE of those reservists were VOLUNTEERS. Do you understand the meaning of that word? They volunteered to serve, and did their duty. How about YOU? Were you ever in the military? Do you have any CONCEPT of the meaning of the words "duty","honor", "loyalty"? Yes, those people dies..... doing something that they BELIEVED in. What do YOU "believe" in????? Richard Reid, USMC Retired

Sure they volunteered - a weekend a month, except in time of national emergency. Most probably never dreamed the boy King would send them off on his imperial adventure. The reservist have the worst eaquipment, the least training and die at a rate faster that the the regular corps, by hey they volunteered. Sure they did. Cannon fodder for the empire.

What do I believe in? A republic- not an empire. Freedom and liberty - two words King George loves to use, but seems not to understand. And justice - a word the lords of Gitmo and Abu Ghriab know absolutely nothing about. And yes, honor, which means that I have no choice but to resist those who have lied us into a needless war.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: USMC Retired Lastly, I've been following the election coverage this morning. One thing I heard caught my attention.... the report of THOUSANDS of people walking THIRTEEN MILES just to be able to vote. Imagine that.... walking thirteen miles, just to be able to vote in an election. Knowing that there have been threats to to maim and kill, to bomb and shoot.... and doing it anyway. Imagine, just how IMPORTANT this election must have been to these people for them to do that. And then ask those people if we, the U.S.A. did the "right thing" in kicking out Saddam. Richard Reid, USMC Retired

At ease, soldier :) And welcome to Volconvo.

You seem to forget that the U.S. has a long history of "kicking out" dictators we used to support but who fell out of favor with us, like Manuel Noriega. We did these things without the loss of our troops and invading another country. Ask yourself why it is so different this time. Could it be that this great push to democratize Iraq comes ONLY after the threat to us by Saddam was disproved? Bad intel (with a later medal of freedom gioven to the guy who gave Bush the bad intel), terrorist strongholds, the nuclear "wake up call", the aluminum tubes and drone aircraft. These and other "threats" were disproved but we went in anyway. Then it quickly became clear that a lot of people didn't want us there and the whole thing began to unravel. We needed a "reason" to be there then so we manufactured this so-called "liberation".

It's unfortunate, but now it seems the deception is complete and the Bush supporters have completely forgotten the reason we originally went in there was to protect OURSELVES and NOT the Iraqi people.

But I'd like your opinion. Why do you think this bloody and costly war was undertaken instead of us doing what we usually did and covertly support our OWN "insurgency" against Saddam to get rid of the guy?

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: USMC Retired No, Mr. Vicchio, they do NOT "get it." They sit in their ivory towers, wearing their rose colored glasses, and imagine the world as they would like it to be. If only they would take off the glasses, come down from the tower, and experience the REAL WORLD, as it really is.

Yeah, we need someone that has spent 20 years in a gung-ho Marine environment to tell us how the "REAL WORLD really is.

Quote by: USMC Retired For twelve years, Saddam lead their beloved U.N. inspectors around by the NOSE.... showing them only what he wanted them to see. Surprising then, that the inspectors didn't find anything? What a joke!

The inspectors went to every site that the U.S. identified for them. After all, with the "proof" that Colin Powell claimed we had, we must have had some very good ideas about where the WMD's were stored. Why don't you give us a few examples of places where the inspectors weren't allowed to go?

Quote by: USMC Retired Lastly, I've been following the election coverage this morning. One thing I heard caught my attention.... the report of THOUSANDS of people walking THIRTEEN MILES just to be able to vote. Imagine that.... walking thirteen miles, just to be able to vote in an election. Knowing that there have been threats to to maim and kill, to bomb and shoot.... and doing it anyway. Imagine, just how IMPORTANT this election must have been to these people for them to do that. And then ask those people if we, the U.S.A. did the "right thing" in kicking out Saddam. Richard Reid, USMC Retired

Evidently you believe that this is worth the almost 1500 dead GI's, thousands more injured and maimed for life, and the hundreds of billions of dollars spent. I don't. If the Iraqi's were so anxious to vote, why didn't they ever target saddam the way they target our troops with suicide bombers and IED's?? If they wanted freedom so bad, why didn't they throw saddam out they same way the Iranians threw out the Shah?

Quote by: USMC Retired How about YOU? Were you ever in the military? Do you have any CONCEPT of the meaning of the words "duty","honor", "loyalty"?

If you read one of my earlier posts, you'd know that, like you, I did serve. Unlike you I don't feel the need to broadcast my service by advertising it in my screen name. And I believe that "duty","honor", "loyalty" is a two way street. It has to come from the Commander-in-Chief as well as the lowest ranking member of any service. Furthering a political agenda with a war based on lies certainly doesn't respect any of those three words.

[bishop]

They sit in their ivory towers, wearing their rose colored glasses, and imagine the world as they would like it to be. If only they would take off the glasses, come down from the tower, and experience the REAL WORLD, as it really is.

are you talking about the bush administration? you know.. those chicken hawks who either never served, or took the easy way out (like bush with vietnam)?


i could really give a damn less about the iraqis.. i'm concerned about MY country. volunteer soldiers should not be used as pawns to further the interests of the elite, or to serve the interests of foreigners. but, all those who feel that american lives (and treasure) are so expendable, they should be the first in line to go to iraq.

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: RickSp Sure they volunteered - a weekend a month, except in time of national emergency. Most probably never dreamed the boy King would send them off on his imperial adventure. The reservist have the worst eaquipment, the least training and die at a rate faster that the the regular corps, by hey they volunteered. Sure they did. Cannon fodder for the empire.

Lets see if I can set you straight on something here (I doubt it, but I'm going to try anyway).

Let me quote to you the OATH that those reservists took:

I, _________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of ___________________________________ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ________________________ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

Hmmm..... lets see.... where are the words "one weekend a month" or "national emergency".... funny, I don't seem to find them. Do you??? Oh, I forgot (again).... it's those rose colored glasses of yours that change your perceptions of the world and make you see things that the rest of us can't see.

As for training and equipment, how much time have YOU spent in a reserve unit? I spent three years, as part of the active duty staff training Marine reservist in Houston, Tx. And from my PERSONAL experience (not just some high browed opinion) I can tell you that they were just as well equiped and trained as the regular forces were. The only difference was their training (by their choice) was one weekend a month, and two weeks a year, instead of 365 days a year. And I will add that I would have gone into combat (something else you know nothing about, I'm sure!) with those people any day of the week.

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: Scribbler1 At ease, soldier :) And welcome to Volconvo.

I thank you for the welcome, but must correct you on calling me a "soldier". I am not and never was a "soldier". I am and always will be a UNITED STATES MARINE! A "civilian" might not know the difference..... but MARINES do. Anyone can be a "soldier" in the Army.... but few have what it takes to be a MARINE.

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: Zeebadee Yeah, we need someone that has spent 20 years in a gung-ho Marine environment to tell us how the "REAL WORLD really is. If you read one of my earlier posts, you'd know that, like you, I did serve. Unlike you I don't feel the need to broadcast my service by advertising it in my screen name.

You know, I guess the difference between you and I is that I am PROUD of my 20 years of service, proud of the country and Corps that I served, and proud of the men and women that I served with. You're right, I'm a "gung-ho Marine".... and am dammed proud of that fact. It's a pitty that you don't feel the same way. I feel sorry for you.

Richard Reid USMC Retired (and dammed PROUD of it!)

[bishop]

good to see you're proud of yourself.

here's two stories of how much your piece of shit superiors care about the people they use:

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/...0/abandon1.htm

He lost an arm in Iraq; the Army wants money

http://www.armytimes.com/print.php?f...ER-2788602.php

The pre-deployment screenings were “grossly inadequate,” and troops were “rubber-stamped” fit for duty even though they had medical conditions that should have kept them home, Mosley said. People with profound hearing loss, severe cardiac disease, insulin-dependent diabetes and other conditions were deployed to Iraq, Mosley said. He said his symptoms were ignored during his Army medical evaluation board and only many months later was his Parkinson’s disease diagnosed by a civilian doctor.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Iraq...=163109&page=1

Army Spc. Tyson Johnson III of Mobile, Ala., who lost a kidney in a mortar attack last year in Iraq, was still recovering at Walter Reed Army Medical Center when he received notice from the Pentagon's own collection agency that he owed more than $2,700 because he could not fulfill his full 36-month tour of duty.

i personally know several people who fought and were injured in vietnam... they have to fight through mountains of bullshit just to get the benefits they were promised.

[RickSp]

Quote by: USMC Retired Hmmm..... lets see.... where are the words "one weekend a month" or "national emergency".... funny, I don't seem to find them. Do you??? Oh, I forgot (again).... it's those rose colored glasses of yours that change your perceptions of the world and make you see things that the rest of us can't see. As for training and equipment, how much time have YOU spent in a reserve unit? I spent three years, as part of the active duty staff training Marine reservist in Houston, Tx. And from my PERSONAL experience (not just some high browed opinion) I can tell you that they were just as well equiped and trained as the regular forces were. The only difference was their training (by their choice) was one weekend a month, and two weeks a year, instead of 365 days a year. And I will add that I would have gone into combat (something else you know nothing about, I'm sure!) with those people any day of the week.

And you are accusing me of wearing rose colored glasses? Damn. Just as well equipped, just as well trained. Next thing you'll be telling us that we are winning the war.

A few comments from Jim Dugan on the Reservists:

The relatively high rate for National Guard and reserve troops is attributable to a number of factors. The main one is that they are less well trained. The army doesn’t like to talk about this one, because the official word has always been that the part time soldiers are able to serve as effectively as their active duty brethren. In addition to less training, the reservists also have equipment problems. Reserve units get new gear after active duty troops are taken care of. This is often remedied for troops headed for Iraq by issuing the reservists with the new stuff before they go. But this means the reservists are still getting used to the new gear. An attempt has been made to remedy this by giving the reservists months of additional training before shipping them out. This helps, but it does not completely solve the problem.

Why It's Dangerous to be a Reservist in Iraq
Most U.S. Iraq deaths are reservists

And we are losing the war. "The insurgency in Iraq will last at least a decade and American troops alone will not be able to defeat it". That wasn't my statement that was from Gen John Abizaid of US Central Command. You may have heard of him.
US troops will never overcome insurgents, warns senior officer

This was a needless war justified on lies with no planning for the occupation, no cogent exit strategy, all directed by chicken hawk imperialists. I'm sure you'll give us your rose colored critique. You've already mentioned your WMD fantasies.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: USMC Retired I thank you for the welcome, but must correct you on calling me a "soldier". I am not and never was a "soldier". I am and always will be a UNITED STATES MARINE! A "civilian" might not know the difference..... but MARINES do. Anyone can be a "soldier" in the Army.... but few have what it takes to be a MARINE.

I know. I have a few old friends who were Marines. I'm just using a generic term there, as in anyone who fights for his country is a soldier.

And I can see we will disagree quite a lot here, but I do thank you for your service to our country.

[USMC Retired]

Dr. William Winkenwerder Jr., assistant secretary of defense for health affairs, said he recently named a task force to create a system to better track the health of Guard and reserve members after they leave active duty. The services have health surveillance and preventive medicine experts in theater, and when environmental hazards are identified, the names of service members who possibly could be exposed are recorded. For more than a year, more than 92 percent of Guard and reserve members who returned from deployment report their health as good to excellent, Winkenwerder said.

Interesting what SELECTIVE quotations can do........

[RickSp]

Quote by: USMC Retired Interesting what SELECTIVE quotations can do........

Telling to see who you believe.

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I know. I have a few old friends who were Marines. I'm just using a generic term there, as in anyone who fights for his country is a soldier. And I can see we will disagree quite a lot here, but I do thank you for your service to our country.

Yes, it seems I do "disagree" with the opinions of a number of folks here.... oh well, if we all agreeded on everything, life would be rather BORING, don't you think?

Richard Reid USMC Retired

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: USMC Retired Yes, it seems I do "disagree" with the opinions of a number of folks here.... oh well, if we all agreeded on everything, life would be rather BORING, don't you think?

Absolutely. We ARE here to argue our sides, after all. :)

One thing I'd like you to do though. As it usually is with political and social arguments, things can get heated and we have a set of easy to remember rules here to keep things to a simmer. Since you're new around these parts, and if you haven't read them yet, it's always good to know the rules of the road before you pull out of the driveway.

Volconvo Rules (Etiquette)

.

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: bishop good to see you're proud of yourself. here's two stories of how much your piece of shit superiors care about the people they use: i personally know several people who fought and were injured in vietnam... they have to fight through mountains of bullshit just to get the benefits they were promised.

And if I spent the time, I am sure I could find 20 stories to refute your 2.... then you would find 200 and I would find 2000..... and so on, ad infinitum.... Bud, it's a BIG military, and nothing is ever PERFECT. But instead of BITCHING about it, what are YOU doing to make things BETTER? Did you send that soldier (whom you appear to be so concerned over) any money to help him and his family out? Did you make any calls on his behalf, write any letters? How about your Vietnam friends? Have you done anything for them? Or do you just sit there on your duff (I really wanted to use another phrase, but don't wish to be kicked off this forum just yet!) and BITCH about things???

Either you're part of the SOLUTION, or you're a part of the PROBLEM!

Richard Reid USMC Retired

[USMC Retired]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Absolutely. We ARE here to argue our sides, after all. :) One thing I'd like you to do though. As it usually is with political and social arguments, things can get heated and we have a set of easy to remember rules here to keep things to a simmer. Since you're new around these parts, and if you haven't read them yet, it's always good to know the rules of the road before you pull out of the driveway. Volconvo Rules (Etiquette) .

SIR, rules and regs have been read, SIR. LOL!!!! I will attempt to keep my PASSIONS under control.

Richard Reid USMC Retired

[bishop]

Dr. William Winkenwerder Jr., assistant secretary of defense for health affairs, said he recently named a task force to create a system to better track the health of Guard and reserve members after they leave active duty.

it's great to see that they are FINALLY looking into the problem.. vets have been making similar complaints for decades now, and the military has dragged its dirty ass on the pledges they made to soldiers. i distinctly remember how the military only began to talk about gulf war syndrome after scores of vets continued to talk about it and wouldn't take the b.s. denials that the establishment people gave.

i sure hope these 7,000+ wounded soldiers - you know, the ones with missing limbs, even the 5th - i hope they're happy that they mangled themselves so that some foreigners could vote. call me crazy, but i don't think they'd do it again if they had the choice.

"no poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. he won it by making other bastards die for their country."

i guess that quote has taken on a whole new meaning now..