I Do Not Respect The Military

[Angry Citizen]

In another thread, a poster returned from basic training and AIT to choruses of "Good for you!" Rather than derailing that thread with an actual debate, I figured I would post it here.

I have no respect for the military. There is no reason to hold any extra good will towards a man or woman in uniform. The existence of the military, and public participation in it, encourages militaristic endeavors which are designed to extend American influence abroad.

Moreover, military service is not altruistic: several benefits exist which entice young, impressionable men and women into picking up weapons and killing other men and women (and sometimes children, if I may add). These include the chance at a college education; prestige at home and in the work force; benefits such as health care; and ethereal (and I posit non-existent and/or worthless) qualities like 'leadership skills' and 'experience'.

Military service is risking your life, your sanity, and the lives and sanity of other human beings for these benefits. I claim that any human being who would willingly accept this kind of indentured servitude is nothing more than a contract killer trafficking in blood money; or is not in possession of full mental faculty. Such individuals should be as ostracized as Untouchables in the Indian caste system. Caveats exist, of course, which pertain to the existence of the nation at large; however, no such existential threat has been seen in seven decades.

Shame on the military men and women who perpetuate this evil on mankind.

[Muckraker]

I'll have to agree here. Primarily because I abhor violence and I am incapable of taking orders.

I am disturbed when an average guy is tricked by the "freedom fighter and democracy protector" fanfare, signs up for promised future opportunity, and is willing to unquestioningly take an order to kill another person and, should he actually see active combat, take the gamble that he won't be killed or that he won't be physically crippled or mentally scarred for life by the experience. When in reality the military is a tool and unquestioning loyalty is not a valuable trait for a person to have (well not valuable for the individual at least).

[LetThereBe]

Meh... a military is a necessary thing to have. I'm not speaking to whether specific wars are justified, but there are times when it is necessary to kill others.

I'll agree just being in the military does not make you some kind of "hero". They are fairly compensated for what they do. In some instances people go "above and beyond" and may be deserving of special recognition or praise... but this is not the general case.

[Yarn]

Bashing the troops as a generalism is counterproductive because the problem isn't them it is our leaders, esp our political leaders. We need soldiers, though not quite so many of them, and bashing them as a whole is therefore like bashing police as a whole. Your wrong that the "experience" has no value, though sometimes that value is negative due to physical and mental health detriments involved in combat and other risky operations.

Regarding the soldiers, they don't choose where they go. They are more moral on issues of discretion than most other soldiers have been through out history. And I won't fault someone for joining a necessary but corrupted institution, I will only fault someone if they are at fault for making it corrupt.

The problem with the military isn't the troops. It is that it is bigger than can be justified, is run too inefficiently, and is often used incompetently and for the wrong reasons.

[Angry Citizen]

Bashing the troops as a generalism is counterproductive because the problem isn't them it is our leaders, esp our political leaders.

The military is an all-volunteer force. Sans volunteers, we could not use our military as we currently do - which is to say, in evil and violent wars of aggression. Therefore, they are every bit as much the problem as our political leaders.

[Trojan_Ripper]

In another thread, a poster returned from basic training and AIT to choruses of "Good for you!" Rather than derailing that thread with an actual debate, I figured I would post it here.

I have no respect for the military. There is no reason to hold any extra good will towards a man or woman in uniform. The existence of the military, and public participation in it, encourages militaristic endeavors which are designed to extend American influence abroad.

Moreover, military service is not altruistic: several benefits exist which entice young, impressionable men and women into picking up weapons and killing other men and women (and sometimes children, if I may add). These include the chance at a college education; prestige at home and in the work force; benefits such as health care; and ethereal (and I posit non-existent and/or worthless) qualities like 'leadership skills' and 'experience'.

Military service is risking your life, your sanity, and the lives and sanity of other human beings for these benefits. I claim that any human being who would willingly accept this kind of indentured servitude is nothing more than a contract killer trafficking in blood money; or is not in possession of full mental faculty. Such individuals should be as ostracized as Untouchables in the Indian caste system. Caveats exist, of course, which pertain to the existence of the nation at large; however, no such existential threat has been seen in seven decades.

Shame on the military men and women who perpetuate this evil on mankind.

Hell yeah….we don’t need fucking police either. Shame on them, contract killers should of course be ostracized. I can’t believe these people would Volunteer for such SERVICE like you state. Wait….what is the word you used (service) mean anywaysss.

Oopps…. thought I was posting to the Internet TROLL thread. Phiffitttt…wasted my time!

[Angry Citizen]

Hell yeah….we don’t need fucking police either. Shame on them, contract killers should of course be ostracized.

Modern policemen are without a doubt the "wrong stuff", and they should neither be ostracized nor given any particular respect. Just watching Cops, you'll see all kinds of abuses. I saw one fellow get ripped out of his truck by cops when he hadn't pulled a gun, hadn't pulled a knife, and had his hands in the air. His leg was severely injured. I see tasers deployed just to stop people from running, even if it's a large city with ample canine officers. Don't get me started on police.

I can’t believe these people would Volunteer for such SERVICE like you state. Wait….what is the word you used (service) mean anywaysss.

Guess the same thing as the SERVICE industry ... shall we place the McDonalds burger flipper at the highest echelon of society?

[Yarn]

Angry Citizen:

The military is an all-volunteer force. Sans volunteers, we could not use our military as we currently do - which is to say, in evil and violent wars of aggression. Therefore, they are every bit as much the problem as our political leaders.

The consequences of not having a military at all are greater than those of having one and risking that it be used improperly. Likewise, if joining the forces was the only way someone could go to college then the good might outweigh the bad in that area.

Furthermore, if there is to be an unjust war and if all decent people refuse to serve in it then only evil ones will be left serving. Good men fighting a bad war is better than bad men fighting a bad war because in instances of discretion bad men will do evil. Most of the history of war is filled with routine genocide, rape, looting, and deliberate murder of innocents. This is less likely to happen the more moral virtue there is among the troops.

Realistically, no individual can abstain from the service and have a reasonable expectation this will prevent wars. If the recruiting quotas aren't met then standards will reduced, and this will make up for any plausible shortfall.

Modern policemen are without a doubt the "wrong stuff", and they should neither be ostracized nor given any particular respect. Just watching Cops, you'll see all kinds of abuses. I saw one fellow get ripped out of his truck by cops when he hadn't pulled a gun, hadn't pulled a knife, and had his hands in the air. His leg was severely injured. I see tasers deployed just to stop people from running, even if it's a large city with ample canine officers. Don't get me started on police.

I'd rather have those policemen than no policemen. The goal should be reform of the institution, not obliteration of it.

But nothing is perfect. Nothing is free. The cost of solving larger problems is often inevitably creating smaller ones.

[Trojan_Ripper]

Guess the same thing as the SERVICE industry ... shall we place the McDonalds burger flipper at the highest echelon of society?

I don’t know AC you started the thread. Are you suggesting ALL servitude to be ostracized? If you where placing the military servicemen and women at the highest echelon of society then sorry I misunderstood your entire position.

We'll work on this a little at a time.

[LetThereBe]

Modern policemen are without a doubt the "wrong stuff", and they should neither be ostracized nor given any particular respect. Just watching Cops, you'll see all kinds of abuses. I saw one fellow get ripped out of his truck by cops when he hadn't pulled a gun, hadn't pulled a knife, and had his hands in the air. His leg was severely injured. I see tasers deployed just to stop people from running, even if it's a large city with ample canine officers. Don't get me started on police.

How is getting attacked by a police dog more humane than a taser? Dogs are also more expensive than tasers... and occasionally this happens:

[Darklordabc]

You should respect the military as an Idea. You shouldn't respect the military personal UNLESS you agree with the wars they are involved in. I'm sure Angry Citizen is not silly enough to propose we disband the military as a instuition, I think he just dislikes the current wars America is involved in.

There is nothing respectful about men and women going to kill people for an unjust cause, lucky for us, Iraq and Afghanistan are absolutely justified.

[Night]

There is nothing respectful about men and women going to kill people for an unjust cause, lucky for us, Iraq and Afghanistan are absolutely justified.

Iraq is an absolutely justified war, huh....? Do go on. I have the feeling I'm about to see you say something tremendously ignorant.