Hawaii--a Victim Of The Us

[fedfem]

Another tidbit of information and evidence of American Arrogance. They will end up being the next Cuba.

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/index.html

oh, but then we'll have to add puerto rico so that we can maintain 50 states.

i dont really mind.

but i mean... 49 states? come on. that would just look bad.

lol


give em independence, i don't care one way or another. they dont seem to contribute much to the nation, except in tourism.
i vote- Hawaii out, Puerto Rico in!

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

It appears that nearly everything is evidence of American arrogance according to FedFem. How about the existence of salt-water, I bet that is somehow connected...

[fedfem]

that isn't very fair. If you have evidence that it is not, simply present it for debate.

I love America and can still discuss the mistakes it has made. I am not the type to defend the indefensible out of any patriotic duty. I think you are just angry because I caught your mistake on Puerto Rico.lol

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

If you want to continue to argue that, go right ahead. But you may want to notice the state I am posting from, a lot of Puerto Rician's live here...too bad neither of the ones I know would care to debate.

But I only mentioned PR in a single post, and even if it was a mistake it would only be one. I do not mention it in every topic...

[indierockboy]

you realize hawaii is 100% dependant on imported oil for power, and is highly dependant on outside sources for fresh drinking water? it's largest source of income is tourism, and if it became an independant country, tourism would decline, due to the difficulties of customs and passports. this smells just like quebec's constant rallying to become an independant nation; it's a pipe dream whose realization would do nothing less than harm the state.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

indierockboy
...and here I thought you only posted fluff.

[fedfem]

Not 100% but yes they do import oil and that wouldn't stop if they had independence. They would still purchase oil--and water and whatever they needed. They also have an active alternative energy program--hydro, geothermal, wind, etc...but that has nothing to do with independence. They are not proposing to be shut off from the rest of the world. The legal claim is legitimate. President Clinton offered an official apology back in the nineties I believe. I don't think it is a pipe dream but I do agree it may not be in their best interest economically.

[indierockboy]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon@Sep 2 2003, 11:40 PM indierockboy ...and here I thought you only posted fluff.

wow, thanks for the compliment, great wurm. i'll keep that in mind.

[einned]

Originally posted by indierockboy@Sep 2 2003, 10:07 PM you realize hawaii is 100% dependant on imported oil for power, and is highly dependant on outside sources for fresh drinking water? it's largest source of income is tourism, and if it became an independant country, tourism would decline, due to the difficulties of customs and passports. this smells just like quebec's constant rallying to become an independant nation; it's a pipe dream whose realization would do nothing less than harm the state.

I have to agree with indierockboy. There are always "countries" in the world who want there independence but when you look at it in a economical perspective they have no real chance chance on surviving by themselves.
In The Netherlands there is an issue at this moment about Curacao. We colonised it years ago and now the people (or the politicians mainly i guess) want their independence, but the chances of having a good or even an economy that will barerely keep the country running or close to zero.
Why then do they want to be independent ... power. That's the thing everyone is after no matter what the price is they (or their people) will have to pay for that.

[Pooeypants]

Don't worry about being 49 states, His holy Tony Blair the first, lapdog of Mr Oil baron Bush will be willing to sign UK over to the US. *rollseyes*

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by indierockboy, you realize hawaii is 100% dependant on imported oil for power, and is highly dependant on outside sources for fresh drinking water? it's largest source of income is tourism, and if it became an independant country, tourism would decline, due to the difficulties of customs and passports. this smells just like quebec's constant rallying to become an independant nation; it's a pipe dream whose realization would do nothing less than harm the state.

What a crock, indi. Excuse me for noticing, but you seem to be sourcing your own ineptitude.



How about PatrickHenry lives in Hawaii(Big Island) and like none of your post is factual. Hawaii does import oil and has no oil wells or petroleum bearing strata. Power is another subject however. There is geothermal, solar and wind. All have some degree of development in Hawaii.
http://www.state.hi.us/dbedt/ert/sol_t_hi.html#use

An estimated 80,000 single family homes, multi-unit dwellings and institutional facilities in Hawaii are served by solar water heaters.

http://www.awea.org/projects/hawaii.html
http://www.punageothermalventure.com/

Puna Geothermal Venture ("PGV") is located about 21 miles south of Hilo on the Big Island of Hawaii. The facility is situated on about 25 acres of a 500-acre plot along the Lower East Rift Zone (LERZ) of the Kilauea Volcano.

Dependent on outside sources of fresh drinking water? Hawaii bottles and sells fresh water, smarty. It rains a lot and there are immense aquifers. http://www.watertechonline.com/news....e=4&N_ID=49147

Largest source of income is tourism, but why would tourism decline if Hawaii were an independent nation? Hawaii is a major destination for Japanese visitors. And I think that Americans have been coming to Hawaii long enough on vacation that it ain't gonna slow down now. Chances are, all you Americans would need would be a visa, like Mexico. We would still be friends and allies. It's not like traveling to the Middle East. Lots of friendly faces, lots of aloha. Hawaii has a diversified economy, too, with agriculture and fishing prominent.
http://www.imageshawaii.com/general_economy.html

And why is it a pipe dream for a formerly independent nation to want its sovereignty returned? The Baltic Republics(Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) got their independence back after being captives of the Russians for many decades. Is America so uncivilized that it can't even match the Russians for civility?

Hawaii was siezed from its monarchs and citizens in 1893. With the aid and abettance of the USMC. Grabbing a country with guns doen't make it a rightful possession. The overthrow of the Hawaiian constitutional monarchy will never be swept under the rug. The world sees and knows American rhetoric about democracy and freedom of choice is flatus. Hawaii is the proof, the smoking gun...

[waterfalllife]

Puerto Rico has no need to become a state. They dont have to pay taxes, serve under any form of military, and America protects them and sends them money if needed! Why become a state when you have all this FREE money??

[Liberty Landing]

Hawaii and Alaska are both on the political fringes compared to the rest of America. Grant them both independence if they democratically vote it upon themselves.

I would not mind at all living in an Alaskan Free State. :-D