Biden can't say that

[gr8fuldaniel]

The Bush Admin is a steam roller.
If our Representatives cannot stand up for what is right and the people will not rise up against the evil machine of empire and hegemony, we will go the way of other fascist nations and be the victims of other nations who will come roaring in with great blood shed to liberate us. Many Americans will die, even though it was only our leaders who offended.

[Lou Minotti]

i support the Christian Right

So do you believe the behavior of homosexuals/liberals caused God to punish America with 9/11?

[RickSp]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel The Bush Admin is a steam roller. If our Representatives cannot stand up for what is right and the people will not rise up against the evil machine of empire and hegemony, we will go the way of other fascist nations and be the victims of other nations who will come roaring in with great blood shed to liberate us. Many Americans will die, even though it was only our leaders who offended.

We are in a race between the Bush administration's imperial delusions and the willingness of the American people to go along with the madness. Already a majority of American oppose the war in Iraq and Bush enters his second term with the lowest approval rating of any second term president in half a century. Nothing motivates the cowards in congress like opinion polss.

My biggest fear is a successful terrorist attack that the Bushies can use to justify another invasion or the Bush administration using Isreal to start a war. Have you noticed that the Bush administration has virtually stopped talking about "terrorism" and is now focussed entirely on "tyranny"?

[Scribbler1]

I hope no one else thinks like I do, but as the last few decades have instilled in me an unshakeable cynicism I am of the opinion that we may have gone well past the point of no return. I'm not saying we are all doomed to extinction but in a decade or so this country will little resemble the one we had a couple of decades prior.
With mistake after mistake, deliberate mishandling of our nation's government for the sake of expediency or to cover up the actions of our leaders and those who have bought and paid for them, I think the fuse has been lit. It's just a matter of time until it burns all the way down.
The worst part, as well as the evidence for my somewhat gloomy prediction is the fact that the majority LIKE what's going on, or at least approve of it through their inaction.

[bishop]

I hope no one else thinks like I do, but as the last few decades have instilled in me an unshakeable cynicism I am of the opinion that we may have gone well past the point of no return. I'm not saying we are all doomed to extinction but in a decade or so this country will little resemble the one we had a couple of decades prior.

can't say i disagree with that at all..

you can break a country's power down many different ways, but i'll just focus on economic, political, cultural and military power. with our economy, we're absolutely awash in debt, to the point that it's finally causing our currency to continuously decline. europe is beating us in growth, and developing countries are fueling global growth (two areas where we used to dominate). politically, the EU is looking to distance themselves, and china's increasingly unafraid to voice its views. plus, how many countries will fight with us should bush send us to war again? not many i'm sure. culturally... i think the entire world is fed up with our fast-food, decadent culture - and they are also fed up with our counter-culture of the christian right.

perhaps the only thing we have left (with the long-term in mind) is our military.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: bishop perhaps the only thing we have left (with the long-term in mind) is our military.

And I thought I was bummed BEFORE!!
Our military seems to be largely a myth. When you go into a country the size of California, which had a half-assed military that folded like a cheap umbrella a couple of weeks after we invaded and have the generals there declare we are undermanned, you have a serious problem. Pulling retirees out of their final days of the reserves, sending National Guard troops which were NEVER intended for international combat and were not trained for such, and extending tours of duty in direct violation of the government's agreement with the soldiers tells a sad tale. What would happen if we really found ourselves in a war on a scale of WW2?

[bishop]

i'm usually hesitant to make analogies back to previous wars because military technology has continuously evolved. the only comparisons that one can make are on political grounds. like, "we invade vietnam because of the gulf of tonkin lie just like we invaded iraq on the wmd lie". but when you're talking about capabilities, that's a different story.

we whipped the hell out of iraq in about a week or two with a force of about 130,000. occupation is something usually left to an internationalized force, but since the fuhrer sent us alone into iraq, that's our mess.. well, not really "our" mess - just the poor saps and their families that are fighting over there and middle/lower income americans who have been disproportionately affected by deficit spending and high oil prices. them rich folk are only affected in the positive sense.

i can't seeing either north korea or iran actually launching a nuke without first being attacked themselves. it's entirely irrational for americans to believe that possession immediately means that you'll be attacked. shit, we lived with the ussr for decades, under the threat of total annihiliation and there was no apocalypse. i'm going on a tangent now, but, i can't help but think about the fundamentalist evangelical backdrop of bush's (and friends') mindset. bush in particular believes he's doing god's work... we'd never find ourselves in a ww2 scenario, but we will find ourselves in a ww3 scenario if this policy of constant illegal intervention persists - and ww3 = nuclear war. personally, if bush were to lead us into the apocalypse, americans should hunt him down and hang him dead in the street.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: bishop i can't seeing either north korea or iran actually launching a nuke without first being attacked themselves. it's entirely irrational for americans to believe that possession immediately means that you'll be attacked. shit, we lived with the ussr for decades, under the threat of total annihiliation and there was no apocalypse. i'm going on a tangent now, but, i can't help but think about the fundamentalist evangelical backdrop of bush's (and friends') mindset. bush in particular believes he's doing god's work... we'd never find ourselves in a ww2 scenario, but we will find ourselves in a ww3 scenario if this policy of constant illegal intervention persists - and ww3 = nuclear war. personally, if bush were to lead us into the apocalypse, americans should hunt him down and hang him dead in the street.

Maybe not a war exactly LIKE WW2 but a major conflict nevertheless. A war which would force us to admit we are not quite as prepared to fight on 2 fronts as we claim and would have a cascade effect. To fight anything larger than the insurgents in Iraq we would have to reallocate troops from other areas of the world, which in turn would create a vulnerability there ; one which out enemies would surely notice. This could leave us stuck in a sinkhole like Iraq while the opposition concentrated on the newly vulnerable areas, and then where would we get the troops to refill the holes THERE.
If Iraq is any indicator, our biggest threat will be from bands of loosely organized terrorists and not from a large and difficult to move uniformed military who can pop up with little warning and no visible troop movement. We could be playing whack a mole for years.

[bishop]

we definitely have lots of holes that they can exploit. you always have lots of holes when you're trying to dominate the entire planet.

you know.. in some sense, i almost hope things stay as they are in iraq. (not seriously, but follow the thinking first) if we were able to divulge the security work in iraq to the iraqis, then bush would be able to pursue other fronts - namely iran. we have the country surrounded on two fronts, so we wouldn't even have to negotiate with pesky allies for bases and whatnot. everything's right there, and if there were ever an opportunity to invade iran, the time is now. the ONLY thing keeping us from invading, imo, is the quagmire in iraq. perhaps we should view the constant bad news as being good, given bush's propensity to go to war?