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tinybear · Jun 1, 2005, 11:17 am

And so, Matt, what's your point? I'm rather slow tonight and quite sleepy. Please tell me.

**Matt W** · Jun 1, 2005, 11:19 am

My point...there are other things happening in that part of the world than just Indonesians being corrupt which are hampering & hindering the efforts - and there are other governments who are equally useless.

Sleep well!

tinybear · Jun 1, 2005, 11:25 am

Hey Matt, incompetence, carelessness...etc are forgiveable (I mean who hasn't made mistakes); dishonesty, corruption..etc are not.

Mia · Jun 1, 2005, 11:29 am

And Indonesia has a monopoly on those things?

**Matt W** · Jun 1, 2005, 11:34 am

You really think the Indian stuff is just incompetence, not corruption? Why are they so much more holier-than-thou than the Indonesians?

tinybear · Jun 1, 2005, 12:41 pm

I didn't say India isn't corrupt. I just said Indonesia was (and still is).

tinybear · Jun 1, 2005, 12:44 pm

And it's no excuse to say: "Sorry I'm too preoccupied with other things, I forgot to be honest and besides they're others who are dishonest too". I mean what sort of 'justification' is this?

**Matt W** · Jun 2, 2005, 04:23 am

Quote:

I mean what sort of 'justification' is this?

So, a polio outbreak is just 'other things'? Have you any idea how much resources vaccinating a country in 2 days takes?

tinybear · Jun 2, 2005, 04:29 am

Quote:

Quote by: Matt W

So, a polio outbreak is just 'other things'? Have you any idea how much resources vaccinating a country in 2 days takes?

And that makes them too busy to be honest?

**Matt W** · Jun 2, 2005, 04:46 am

No, it means that a shitload of resources get diverted to deal with that.

I love your stereotypes, tb - all Muslims are terrorists & wifebeaters, all Indonesians are corrupt...anything else for us today?

tinybear · Jun 2, 2005, 04:49 am

You don't need any resources to be honest. Either you're honest or you're not. It's as simple as that.

**Matt W** · Jun 2, 2005, 04:55 am

Quote:

You don't need any resources to be honest

You need resources to rebuild a tsunami-hit country, which is what this thread is about, yes? Also rebuilding in the middle of a civil war makes things fun too.

tinybear · Jun 2, 2005, 05:05 am

Last I heard we were talking about whether Indonesia's officials will be decent and honest enough to use donations from other nations to rebuild the country instead of lining their own pockets. Knowing Indonesia's officials, I very much doubt it. Having lived in Indonesia for five years, Matt, I would have thought you would be harboring the same doubts, but....I don't know, maybe you haven't had much dealings with corrupt Indonesian officials. But that can't be. They're everywhere.

**Matt W** · Jun 2, 2005, 05:08 am

*laughs* I know there are many corrupt officials about. But I tend to look at what else is going on in the world, tb, rather than focussing on one single tiny point and saying that all the problems are their fault.

rmnunez · Jun 3, 2005, 01:44 am

I'd heard there was a massive campaign in Indonesia to erradicate corruption, that they were making all sorts of improvements, officials getting prosecuted, more transperancy, oversight institutions, better fiscalization...

tinybear · Jun 3, 2005, 02:38 am

I hope it works. I really do.

Jun 1, 2005, 11:19 am	#62 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,763	My point...there are other things happening in that part of the world than just Indonesians being corrupt which are hampering & hindering the efforts - and there are other governments who are equally useless. Sleep well! I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Jun 1, 2005, 11:29 am	#64 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	And Indonesia has a monopoly on those things? "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Jun 1, 2005, 11:34 am	#65 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,763	You really think the Indian stuff is just incompetence, not corruption? Why are they so much more holier-than-thou than the Indonesians? I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Jun 2, 2005, 04:46 am	#70 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,763	No, it means that a shitload of resources get diverted to deal with that. I love your stereotypes, tb - all Muslims are terrorists & wifebeaters, all Indonesians are corrupt...anything else for us today? I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Jun 2, 2005, 05:08 am	#74 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,763	laughs I know there are many corrupt officials about. But I tend to look at what else is going on in the world, tb, rather than focussing on one single tiny point and saying that all the problems are their fault. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Jun 1, 2005, 11:17 am	#61 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	And so, Matt, what's your point? I'm rather slow tonight and quite sleepy. Please tell me.

Jun 1, 2005, 11:25 am	#63 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	Hey Matt, incompetence, carelessness...etc are forgiveable (I mean who hasn't made mistakes); dishonesty, corruption..etc are not.

Jun 1, 2005, 12:41 pm	#66 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	I didn't say India isn't corrupt. I just said Indonesia was (and still is).

Jun 1, 2005, 12:44 pm	#67 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	And it's no excuse to say: "Sorry I'm too preoccupied with other things, I forgot to be honest and besides they're others who are dishonest too". I mean what sort of 'justification' is this?

Jun 2, 2005, 04:49 am	#71 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	You don't need any resources to be honest. Either you're honest or you're not. It's as simple as that.

Jun 2, 2005, 05:05 am	#73 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	Last I heard we were talking about whether Indonesia's officials will be decent and honest enough to use donations from other nations to rebuild the country instead of lining their own pockets. Knowing Indonesia's officials, I very much doubt it. Having lived in Indonesia for five years, Matt, I would have thought you would be harboring the same doubts, but....I don't know, maybe you haven't had much dealings with corrupt Indonesian officials. But that can't be. They're everywhere.

Jun 3, 2005, 01:44 am	#75 (permalink) (top)
rmnunez Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772	I'd heard there was a massive campaign in Indonesia to erradicate corruption, that they were making all sorts of improvements, officials getting prosecuted, more transperancy, oversight institutions, better fiscalization...

Jun 3, 2005, 02:38 am	#76 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	I hope it works. I really do.