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PatrickHenry · Jan 18, 2005, 07:39 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Come on. Surely America can't be xenophobic. We should amend the Constitution now. Besides, Arnold isn't getting any younger, you know.

Arnold S. IS THE REASON for the desire by some to change the Constitution. But let me ask you this, tinybear: In a potential conflict between the US and Austria, are you certain where Arnie's loyalties would lie?

That is the reason for the founders fully conceived notions about Presidential qualifications. They were geniuses. Unlike the present leadership in DC.

castille · Jan 18, 2005, 09:06 am

Don't forget America was founded by immigrants...

tinybear · Jan 18, 2005, 09:10 am

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

Arnold S. IS THE REASON for the desire by some to change the Constitution. But let me ask you this, tinybear: In a potential conflict between the US and Austria, are you certain where Arnie's loyalties would lie?

That is the reason for the founders fully conceived notions about Presidential qualifications. They were geniuses. Unlike the present leadership in DC.

If there are enough Americans who doubt Arnold's loyalty, he would lose the election. No, changing the Constitution isn't going to be about Arnold forever. It has longlasting implications for future generations of Americans who weren't born in the USA long after Arnold's dead and buried.

Scribbler1 · Jan 18, 2005, 10:19 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

If there are enough Americans who doubt Arnold's loyalty, he would lose the election. No, changing the Constitution isn't going to be about Arnold forever. It has longlasting implications for future generations of Americans who weren't born in the USA long after Arnold's dead and buried.

That's not good enough. When you look at it this is a very minor issue and I disagree with the increasing perceprion that we can solve all our troubles by changing the Constitution. Leave it the hell alone unless you have a HUGE reason to tamper with it. In short, it AIN'T broke so don't "fix" it. If the terminator wants to be president and he can't, oh well. I guess you can't have everything.

I want to be 2 inches taller too, but I guess it ain't happening.

tinybear · Jan 18, 2005, 12:46 pm

Of course there's a HUGE reason. It's about equality of treatment of all Americans. Just 'cos an American wasn't born on American soil does it make him/her any less American? No! So he should be able to bid for the office of President of the United States. It's his right, don't you see?

gr8fuldaniel · Jan 18, 2005, 12:58 pm

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Quote by: tiny,

What is one's native land though?

native land

n : the country where you were born [syn: fatherland, homeland, motherland, mother country, country of origin]

tinybear · Jan 18, 2005, 01:06 pm

So I guess Bob Hope's a native Brit then.

gr8fuldaniel · Jan 18, 2005, 01:27 pm

So, not only was he a crummy comedian........He was not qualified to be president of USA. He was still a good man and funny to kids. He just couldnt remember his lines, real comedians and presidents shouldnt need cue cards.

gr8fuldaniel · Jan 18, 2005, 01:39 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear,

Of course there's a HUGE reason. It's about equality of treatment of all Americans.

Right and because Arnie gets to grope women freely I should be allowed the same freedoms?

gr8fuldaniel · Jan 18, 2005, 01:41 pm

And smoke Cuban (illegal) Cigars in a government building.
I should be allowed the same freedom

tinybear · Jan 18, 2005, 02:07 pm

Yeah, freedom and equality for all, I say. Anyone who says otherwise is a traitor to the US Constitution.

tivodan1116 · Jan 18, 2005, 02:08 pm

Quote:

Quote by: castille

Don't forget America was founded by immigrants...

Which America are you referring to? In the America I know of, the signers of the Declaration of Independance, U.S. Constitution, etc were born within the grounds of what is now called the United States.

America may have been settled ("invaded" for historical revisionists) by caucasians from another country, but it was founded as itself by natural born residents.

At any rate, our founders were right. To be born in one country, regardless of how long you live in another, you will always have a certain allegiance to that country. Heck, a lot of modern immigrants who have lived here for 30 years still march in parades and fly flags dedicated to third-world countries they left because they sucked.

tinybear · Jan 18, 2005, 02:17 pm

And if those immigrants teach their children these same values, and their children continue to fly those flags, they would be in the same position, wouldn't they? So they shouldn't be eligible to be President of the USA too, wouldn't you say?

Scribbler1 · Jan 18, 2005, 08:26 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Yeah, freedom and equality for all, I say. Anyone who says otherwise is a traitor to the US Constitution.

Huh? It IS the Constitution that prohibits foreign born presidents! How can the Constitution be unconstitutional?
I don't see this issue as important enough to open a Constitutional Convention. In fact, seeing what the sheep fall for these days I'd rather see no Con Con opened AT ALL! Remember that once a Con Con is opened, the delegates can do ANYTHING they want with the Constitution and it is highly unlikely that the Supreme Court of the U.S. will overturn anything done in one. This is more frightening than any supposed slight to a foreign born person with presidential ambitions.

RickSp · Jan 18, 2005, 08:50 pm

Hell, I'm worried enough that the Constitution will survive in any meaningful sense. Whether "Ahnold" ever gets a shot at the presidency is not a major concern of mine presently

tinybear · Jan 18, 2005, 10:36 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler1

Huh? It IS the Constitution that prohibits foreign born presidents! How can the Constitution be unconstitutional?
I don't see this issue as important enough to open a Constitutional Convention. In fact, seeing what the sheep fall for these days I'd rather see no Con Con opened AT ALL! Remember that once a Con Con is opened, the delegates can do ANYTHING they want with the Constitution and it is highly unlikely that the Supreme Court of the U.S. will overturn anything done in one. This is more frightening than any supposed slight to a foreign born person with presidential ambitions.

Inequality of treatment is inconsistent with the letter and spirit of the Constitution, would you not agree?

Scribbler1 · Jan 18, 2005, 10:52 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Inequality of treatment is inconsistent with the letter and spirit of the Constitution, would you not agree?

No I wouldn't, not really. There are degrees of percieved "unfairness" and this is quite a minor issue. The Constitution is FULL of things someone could find unfair. Just a quick look at my copy shows me that your basic Patriot Act fan could easily find fault with the 4th amendment as it would unduly restrict the ability of the authorities to go into a "suspected terrorist's" home without that pesky warrant thingie. And the 16th amendment? Oooh, THAT has to go! How about the age requirement to be president? A case could be made that a LOT of 18 year-olds are FAR sharper and certainly more educated than an average 35 year-old 200+ years ago. That's blatantly unfair so it must be amended.
There are others but I'm sure you get my meaning. Start playing around with the thing and you might as well throw it out entirely. Besides, I think the 10th amendment takes care of this argument. I refer to the part right after the first comma.
And given the gullibility of so many Americans these days, I don't want to tinker with the Constitution under ANY circumstances.

The founders MEANT for it to be extremely tough to fool with the Constitution. There is a reason for that.

tinybear · Jan 18, 2005, 11:00 pm

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people." (10th Amendment)

Sorry. Could you elaborate a bit on how the 10th Amendment "takes care of this argument" please?

tinybear · Jan 18, 2005, 11:02 pm

Incidentally if the Constitution is full of things which someone can find unfair, wouldn't it be a good idea to review those provisions which are perceived unfair instead of shrugging it off and doing nothing about it?

Scribbler1 · Jan 18, 2005, 11:14 pm

My apologies. That was a brain fart. I meant to say the NINTH amendment, as it shows there ARE rights controlled or denied by the Constitution. In other words it says any OTHER rights not specified belong to the states and the people. By saying OTHER it shows that all rights are not absolute, and the specification of article 2 is one of the "rights" the Constitution addresses.
Schwarzenegger can't be president and I can't run naked down Interstate 95. I guess we'll both have to just live with our restrictions.

Jan 18, 2005, 09:06 am	#22 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Don't forget America was founded by immigrants... Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jan 18, 2005, 01:27 pm	#28 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	So, not only was he a crummy comedian........He was not qualified to be president of USA. He was still a good man and funny to kids. He just couldnt remember his lines, real comedians and presidents shouldnt need cue cards. ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jan 18, 2005, 01:41 pm	#30 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	And smoke Cuban (illegal) Cigars in a government building. I should be allowed the same freedom ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jan 18, 2005, 08:50 pm	#35 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,586	Hell, I'm worried enough that the Constitution will survive in any meaningful sense. Whether "Ahnold" ever gets a shot at the presidency is not a major concern of mine presently Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Jan 18, 2005, 12:46 pm	#25 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	Of course there's a HUGE reason. It's about equality of treatment of all Americans. Just 'cos an American wasn't born on American soil does it make him/her any less American? No! So he should be able to bid for the office of President of the United States. It's his right, don't you see?

Jan 18, 2005, 01:06 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	So I guess Bob Hope's a native Brit then.

Jan 18, 2005, 02:07 pm	#31 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	Yeah, freedom and equality for all, I say. Anyone who says otherwise is a traitor to the US Constitution.

Jan 18, 2005, 02:17 pm	#33 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	And if those immigrants teach their children these same values, and their children continue to fly those flags, they would be in the same position, wouldn't they? So they shouldn't be eligible to be President of the USA too, wouldn't you say?

Jan 18, 2005, 11:00 pm	#38 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." (10th Amendment) Sorry. Could you elaborate a bit on how the 10th Amendment "takes care of this argument" please?

Jan 18, 2005, 11:02 pm	#39 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	Incidentally if the Constitution is full of things which someone can find unfair, wouldn't it be a good idea to review those provisions which are perceived unfair instead of shrugging it off and doing nothing about it?

Jan 18, 2005, 11:14 pm	#40 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	My apologies. That was a brain fart. I meant to say the NINTH amendment, as it shows there ARE rights controlled or denied by the Constitution. In other words it says any OTHER rights not specified belong to the states and the people. By saying OTHER it shows that all rights are not absolute, and the specification of article 2 is one of the "rights" the Constitution addresses. Schwarzenegger can't be president and I can't run naked down Interstate 95. I guess we'll both have to just live with our restrictions.