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tinybear · Jan 16, 2005, 01:30 am

Well, Graner put forward the Nuremberg defence: I was only obeying orders. But if this defence failed in the Nuremberg trials 60 years ago, how can it possibly succeed now? And the question that cries out for an answer is: who ordered this? How would you sentence Graner though? Leniently? Or would you throw the book at him?

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...0050115TXLM108

Zeebadee · Jan 16, 2005, 02:19 am

I'm surprised Graner didn't take the stand and testify under oath that he was specifically ordered to do the deeds that got him 10 years in prison, reduction to the lowest rank, and a dishonorable discharge. I believe there has been only one other person sentenced for the abuses at Abu Ghraib, Jeremy Sivits, and he got only one year. Maybe Graner didn't think he'd get such a harsh sentence and decided to keep quiet for that reason. It's going to be interesting to see how the rest of the GI's awaiting trial react to this sentence.

Spartacus · Jan 17, 2005, 03:28 am

The disgusting part of this affair is that not one officer has been brought up on any kind of substantial charges in this matter. Those NCOs were not loose cannons, they were acting on behalf of their higher ups (who never put their orders into writing... they learned that much from the Nazis). The few officers who were charged got a slap on the wrist and were sent on their happy way. Granier is no saint but he is not the devil here either. Special Ops has a lot to answer for and they won't say a word either. The wrong guy is being hung out to dry. There are many more in the woodwork.

Jan 16, 2005, 01:30 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,002	The Abu Gharib Prisoner Abuse Trial Well, Graner put forward the Nuremberg defence: I was only obeying orders. But if this defence failed in the Nuremberg trials 60 years ago, how can it possibly succeed now? And the question that cries out for an answer is: who ordered this? How would you sentence Graner though? Leniently? Or would you throw the book at him? http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...0050115TXLM108

Jan 16, 2005, 02:19 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,711	I'm surprised Graner didn't take the stand and testify under oath that he was specifically ordered to do the deeds that got him 10 years in prison, reduction to the lowest rank, and a dishonorable discharge. I believe there has been only one other person sentenced for the abuses at Abu Ghraib, Jeremy Sivits, and he got only one year. Maybe Graner didn't think he'd get such a harsh sentence and decided to keep quiet for that reason. It's going to be interesting to see how the rest of the GI's awaiting trial react to this sentence. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Jan 17, 2005, 03:28 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Spartacus voyager Location: where I am free Posts: 111	The disgusting part of this affair is that not one officer has been brought up on any kind of substantial charges in this matter. Those NCOs were not loose cannons, they were acting on behalf of their higher ups (who never put their orders into writing... they learned that much from the Nazis). The few officers who were charged got a slap on the wrist and were sent on their happy way. Granier is no saint but he is not the devil here either. Special Ops has a lot to answer for and they won't say a word either. The wrong guy is being hung out to dry. There are many more in the woodwork.