Senators Demand the Military Be Able To Lock Up American Citizens

[grandpa]

The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. Even Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) raised his concerns about the NDAA detention provisions during last night’s Republican debate. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.

The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.
Senators Demand the Military Lock Up American Citizens in a

Frankly, this doesn't sound too different from the so-called "Patriot Acts." But disturbing nonetheless. Anyway, it's something to talk about.

Grandpa h.

[sturmovic]

That is just cartoonishly, moustache-twirling evil.

[m5lange1]

While I doubt we are that far gone yet, I believe this could be coming. You want to turn a nation into a totalitarian regime complete with torture, political prisoners, arrest without charge or cause? Just scare the populace enough and they will sign over every freedom they ever valued. The last people I expected to support the freedoms lost in the Patriot Act were the rugged individualists and freedom defenders on the right but they scared them right out of their flak jackets and into their little sister's tutus with talk of terrorists.

[Jack]

The bill failed to pass.


Vote Counts: YEAs 38
NAYs 60
Not Voting 2

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

The bill failed to pass.


Vote Counts: YEAs 38
NAYs 60
Not Voting 2

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

That does not negate the fact that Politicians tried to pass this
Legislation !

The "Patriot Act"is just like the "Peoples Protection Law" that Adolf Hitler
Passed to give him a license to ransack peoples homes without a warrant to
round up People the Nazis saw as a threat to Government ! i.e. Biden
calling the TP terrorist !.....

~62% of the Politicians said no, and ~48% said Yes....

[Thanatos]

That is just cartoonishly, moustache-twirling evil.

You've got to admit that it's suspicious.

That does not negate the fact that Politicians tried to pass this
Legislation !

The "Patriot Act"is just like the "Peoples Protection Law" that Adolf Hitler
Passed to give him a license to ransack peoples homes without a warrant to
round up People the Nazis saw as a threat to Government ! i.e. Biden
calling the TP terrorist !.....

~62% of the Politicians said no, and ~48% said Yes....

Suspicious, but not necessarily grounds for comparison with Hitler just yet.

I did some digging and looked at the text of the law itself as a way to procrastinate something else.

It gives the appearance of only applying to Al Qaeda members and people who are not Americans, but this is not correct. McCain is a sneaky bastard; terms like "belligerent act" and "plotting to attack the United States" are potentially very elastic.

It also sounds like the military has to explain what it's using these powers for to congress, but only once the military determines your disposition. So long as you're plotting, it can hold you for as long as it wants to determine whether or not you should be indefinitely detained or put on trial... Lawyers. I hate lawyers.

The only really good news, which you won't believe, is that Obama hates it and wants to veto it. He, err, may get the chance because Jack read his chart wrong. That was them voting down an amendment to neuter the bill so they can't arrest anyone who is not arrestable under existing legislation and not outside the United States at the time.

[barts]

The only really good news, which you won't believe, is that Obama hates it and wants to veto it.

Obama will do whatever he's instructed to do by those who benefit personally from the apparatus of the new American security state.

The record shows that when it comes to suppressing civil and political rights, Obama is worse than Bush/Cheney.

[Thanatos]

Eh, we're no longer torturing people. I kind of hope the bill does make it all the way to Obama's desk (it still has to go through the House) just so he can show off how awesome he is.



For the cynics, the way it's worded has also made a lot of people who work in national security angry because military custody is the new default for covered crimes. This means non-military organizations no longer get to be involved in counterterrorism, and a true cynic might hope that enraging the counterterrorism arm of the CIA gets McCain accidentally on purpose dropped off an aircraft carrier. Not sure he'll be missed. Okay, I'm kidding and don't really think we'd ever be so lucky.

Relax. The world is not constantly coming to an end. Generally speaking, the least exciting thing possible is the one that happens next and this is almost always a good thing. One way or another we'll bumble through this apparent crisis and all float on.

[Dieval]

My biggest question to all of you - What the hell are you all doing that make you think the government is going to come round you up and drop you in a deep dark hole for the rest of your lives??

My other question...there's a TON of text to this bill...how about providing a lot more specifics to the actual text that was being voted on? Saying "Senators Demand the Military Be Able To Lock Up American Citizens" is a load of crap and very misleading.

[barts]

Eh, we're no longer torturing people. I kind of hope the bill does make it all the way to Obama's desk (it still has to go through the House) just so he can show off how awesome he is.

The Senate is also considering a bill to permit torture again.

The ACLU and over 30 other organizations sent a letter to the Senate asking them to oppose an effort in Congress that threatens to revive the use of torture and other inhumane interrogation techniques. If passed, an amendment introduced by Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) to the Defense Authorization bill would roll back torture prevention measures that Congress overwhelmingly approved in the 2005 McCain Anti-Torture Amendment, as well as a 2009 Executive Order on ensuring lawful interrogations. It would also require the administration to create a secret list of approved interrogation techniques in a classified annex to the existing interrogation field manual.

I look forward to being awed by Obama. It will be something new.

[m5lange1]

Quote by Dieval My biggest question to all of you - What the hell are you all doing that make you think the government is going to come round you up and drop you in a deep dark hole for the rest of your lives??

My answer is, once they can do it, it won't matter what you are doing. How many times was that question asked in any dictatorship when people objected to their neighbors and/or loved ones being carted off fror no apparent reason?

[barts]

My biggest question to all of you - What the hell are you all doing that make you think the government is going to come round you up and drop you in a deep dark hole for the rest of your lives??

Because the government is already dropping people in deep dark holes, sometimes for the rest of their lives.

I received my monthly, subscription CounterPunch newsletter. It's not up on the CounterPunch site yet, but let me quote from an article titled, Obama's Assault: 20 Examples, by Bill Quigley.

Bill Quigley is a human rights lawyer and law professor at Loyola University, New Orleans. He also serves as associate legal director of the Center for Constitutional Rights.

Quigley poses the question,

Is There Any Fundamental Difference Between the Bush and Obama Presidencies in the Area of Domestic Civil Liberties?

His answer is no, and an example he offers is,

Solitary Confinement

At least 20,000 people are in solitary confinement in U.S. jails and prisons, some estimate several times that many. Despite the fact that federal, state and local prisons and jails do not report actual numbers, academic research estimates tens of thousands are kept in cells for 23 to 24 hours a day in super-maximum security units and prisons, in lockdown, in security housing units, in "the hole," and in special management units or administrative segregation. Human Rights Watch reports that one-third to one-half of the prisoners in solitary are likely mentally ill. In May 2006, the U.N. Committee on Torture concluded that the United States should "review the regimen imposed on detainees in supermax prisons, in particular, the practice of prolonged isolation." The Obama administration has taken no steps to cut back on the use of solitary confinement in federal, state or local jails and prisons.

Special Administrative Measures

Special Administrative Measures (SAMs) are extra harsh conditions of confinement imposed on prisoners (including pre-trial detainees) by the attorney general. The U.S. Bureau of Prisons imposes restrictions such as segregation and isolation from all other prisoners, and limitation or denial of contact with the outside world, for example such as: no visitors except attorneys, no contact with news media, no use of phone, no correspondence, no contact with family, no communication with guards, 24-hour video surveillance and monitoring. The DOJ admitted in 2009 that several dozen prisoners, including several pre-trial detainees, mostly Muslims, were kept incommunicado under SAMs. If anything, the use of SAMs has increased under the Obama administration.

That's, in part, what makes me think that "the government is going to come round you up and drop you in a deep dark hole for the rest of your lives."

I gather you trust the government.