Silenced in China

[PatrickHenry]

Anybody see this story on Frontline, 1/11/05?
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/st...401/index.html
The reporter, Serene Fang, filmed and discussed the situation in Xinjiang province. This is a non-Chinese part of the PRC, Muslim by faith, but not fundamentalist. They do not speak Mandarin. There are numerous human-rights violations which have taken place in the area as the dictatorship arrests and sentences those who would dare to speak out.

She became emotional when talking about one man who was arrested for speaking with her:

now, in an effort to bring attention to his case, she has decided to reveal his identity. His name is Sitiwaldi (Dilkex) Tilivaldi, and he was taken away on October 19, 2004, by the Chinese authorities. The whole experience has left Fang shaken. "I subscribe to journalistic ethics that say that the story is important, and it's important to get the truth out there," Fang says, shedding tears. "But the price was very high -- and I didn't have to pay it. So if I could take it back, I would. I think about his wife and his children. What are they going to do? So, I regret."

Maybe some of us could e-mail the PRC authorities and ask for his release...

[tinybear]

Xinjiang is a Chinese province, mostly inhabited by Uighurs who are Muslims. They have been fighting for independence from Chinese rule for centuries.

I don't think e-mailing the Chinese authorities would be of much use. Maybe if the Uighurs discover oil in Xinjiang and George W Bush gets to hear of it, then there may be some hope.

[PatrickHenry]

http://www.uhrp.org/
A group with a human rights focus on the Uyghurs. This group of people are NOT Chinese by any stretch of the imagination, and this repression is a racist, genocidal effort by the dictatorship that rules the People's Republic of China.

Here is Amnesty's page for protesting the treatment of Rebiya Kadeer, an Uighur prisoner of conscience. They recommend a letter for her release to
His Excellency Ambassador Yang Jiechi
Embassy of the People's Republic of China
2300 Connecticut Avenue N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20008
fax: (202) 328-2582

I suggest that we write for Mr. Sitiwaldi (Dilkex) Tilivaldi, too.

[tinybear]

They may be subject to oppression, but they are still Chinese citizens (although not by choice). Same thing with the Tibetans whose country was invaded by and annexed by China in the 1950s.

[castille]

Quote by: PatrickHenry This is a non-Chinese part of the PRC, Muslim by faith, but not fundamentalist. They do not speak Mandarin.

Obviously you know nothing about China. Not speaking Mandarin doesn't mean non-Chinese, considering China has over a hundred different languages (Shanghai doesn't speak Mandarin, does this suggest Shanghai isn't part of China?).

Do you even know the history of the Xijiang area?

Oh, and I'm been to Xijiang (which includes the area known as Tibet) on both military and civilian duty, unlike most of the American "Free Tibet" hippies. Didn't see any oppression, unless you count the pretty horrible way the Tibetians milk their goats. I can't drink goat milk anymore.


Funny how the US invades all those countries and sets up all those dictatorship puppet states, yet still finds the time to criticise China for invading 1 country. Shouldn't you be busy shooting Iraqi kids?

[tinybear]

You did not see it, does not necessarily mean it does not exist.

http://hhdl.dharmakara.net/hhdl-tibet.html

[castille]

And you've personally seen it?

[tinybear]

No, but the fact that I haven't does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist. :)

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: castille Obviously you know nothing about China. Not speaking Mandarin doesn't mean non-Chinese, considering China has over a hundred different languages (Shanghai doesn't speak Mandarin, does this suggest Shanghai isn't part of China?).

I think you mean hundreds of dialects (Mandarin and Cantonese for example).

Let's not drag in the US into this, we already know enough about their hypocrisy.

[castille]

Quote by: tinybear No, but the fact that I haven't does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist. :)

I think you missed my point by a mile.

How many "free Tibet" protestors even know where it is? (NO, its not in Canada!)

(As a minor note, terrorism and fundamentalism is a strong concern in Xijiang. A lot of terrorists come in through the borders of the former Soviet republics. Recently, suspected cells have infiltrated China from Afghanistan, mainly fleeing Afghan terrorists. And bombings DO happen - when I was stationed a school bus got blown up by some extremist)

Let's not drag in the US into this, we already know enough about their hypocrisy.

Well since the US is the country making most of the criticisms, I figure something should be said for their hypocrisy.

[Pooeypants]

Yes but we have other threads that do this already. Let's keep it on topic here please.

[tinybear]

Quote by: castille I think you missed my point by a mile. How many "free Tibet" protestors even know where it is? (NO, its not in Canada!) (As a minor note, terrorism and fundamentalism is a strong concern in Xijiang. A lot of terrorists come in through the borders of the former Soviet republics. Recently, suspected cells have infiltrated China from Afghanistan, mainly fleeing Afghan terrorists. And bombings DO happen - when I was stationed a school bus got blown up by some extremist)

That's why I posted that link so that we can all share knowledge of what has happened in Tibet from 1950 until the present day and the genuine concerns of the Tibetan people. And, yes, they do go beyond the milking of those goats.

[castille]

Well back on topic:

Can anyone prove, apart from unreliable witnesses, that any wide-scale oppression actually takes place? I mean I've served for over a year in that area, conducted counter-insurgent operations, and knew a lot of people from the area. Yet I never saw any of this alledged oppression.

I do know that prisons are violent places. The so-called political witnesses who go on American talk shows saying how oppressive Chinese prisons are partially correct; beatings do occur in any prison, both by guards and by fellow prisoners (sort of like that American "pick up the soap" thing).

But do beatings occur for racial reasons? Many prison guards in Xijiang are natives, so racial issues aren't too common. I think one common misunderstanding is that Chinese racial minority prisoners think they are victims, when in reality violence is common in prisons.

Even police/military brutality occurs within reason. Take me - I was a city boy, grew up with running water and television (Transformers!). I join the army for the excitement and patriotism. Then I get sent to some shithole where there's no running water, no electricity, and not even proper food. Even the people of Xijiang were more violent than I was used to. I would sometimes get into fights with them and end up spending a few days in confinement. A lot of soldiers/cops who got transferred to the area also couldnt stand it. (Imagine if a cop from the nicest part of Boston got transferred to Iraq for duty)

But then again, the majority of cops in Xijiang are natives, so police violence wasn't that common when they were around. Some of the native cops were in fact the peacekeepers who stopped us and locals from taking things too far.

However, from my time spent in Xijiang I rarely saw extended violence, not much more violent than American cops. Racism wasn't an issue, since everyone was considered Chinese, only resentment due to wealth issues or failure to compromise with each other's ways of life.

[PatrickHenry]

I will consider the source of your comments, castille. You are one who honors Mao. You admit that you have participated in "counterinsurgency" operations in this ethnically Turkmen province. Your posts have demonstrated a taste for personal violence and a lack of ethical concern for others.

Regardless of your present location in Australia, you have been a consistent apologist for the dictators who rule China. Eyewitness accounts are valuable, no doubt. But should we take them uncritically from PRC stooges as well as Amnesty International?

[tinybear]

Beats me how can anyone can defend China's position on Tibet. Hell, I can't even defend China's position on Taiwan (and that's mild by comparison).

[castille]

You are one who honors Mao.

Er...I don't honour Mao, or communism, or socialism, or hippism. You've been stalking my posts for a few months PatrickHenry, so unless you're dumber than a Jerry Springer guest, you've probably figured me out for a capitalist.

. You admit that you have participated in "counterinsurgency" operations in this ethnically Turkmen province.

Is there something illegal against fighting armed rebels? Don't American soldiers and armed police crack down on "insurgents" all the time? (like that crazy Christian/cultist farm guy) Or is armed rebellion legal in America?

PatrickHenry - nice of you to criticise someone you don't know, in a land you've never been to, from the safety of your comfortable middle class American house. Especially when your country is presently killing thousands of Iraqi civilians.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: tinybear Beats me how can anyone can defend China's position on Tibet. Hell, I can't even defend China's position on Taiwan (and that's mild by comparison).

Propaganda is very strong over there. Most mainland China students that I've spoken to believe that Taiwan is a part of China and they will be reunited.

[tinybear]

What do the people of Taiwan think? Has anyone thought of asking them?

[Matt W]

The Chinese government doesn't hold with asking them. Official position is that it's part of China. Full stop.

[castille]

Well from my visit to Taiwan and from Taiwanese friends, they seem to be divided. Some want China to be reunited (but only under the KMT government), others want Taiwan to be seperate. In fact a lot of Taiwanese are fanatically patriotic to China, but just not to the Chinese Communist Party.

The elections should have told you something. The pro-seperatist won by a narrow margin, and just like the Bush elections there was protests from the reunification supporters.

Frankly I don't like the Taiwan issue. Taiwan is a pain in the neck run by a bunch of guys still sore about losing the civil war. I really wouldn't care if they declared independence or became an Imperial state or something.

BUT from a strategic perspective, Taiwan poses a risk to national security. See those American bombers sitting on the island? They could bomb all of China's coastal cities in less than 2 days and wipe out 1 million civilians in less time than I could write this. Even Japan recognised Taiwan's strategic importance during World War 2.

In some ways Taiwan is like Cuba. They're annoying, nobody really should care, but they pose a danger by housing Soviet military bases. I recall the US nearly nuked Russia when Soviet troops offered to install missiles in Cuba.

And yes, there is propaganda in China. But then again, there is also propaganda in the US, so what's your point?