Silenced in China

[tinybear]

When have the Chinese ever voted?

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear Read a bit more about the history of China (1911-1949) before you conclude there was democracy during this period.

It was a democracy in nature, but became anarchy in most of the time. Look at Taiwan, can you deny ROC is a deomocracy?

Quote by: tinybear When have the Chinese ever voted?

Chinese "voted" their support to communist, against nationalist in civial war (1946-1949).

[allen]

Quote by: PatrickHenry You seem so confident to make this statement. Can you cite any evidence to support the assertion?

No, not that confident about this, just to remind you election is expensive. And the switching to democracy is expensive too, here we can take Russia as an example. During the switch, the corruption is maximized and legalised.

[tinybear]

Chinese "voted" to support communism because they were so downtrodden they figured they didn't have much to lose. Boy, were they disappointed!

Here's a funny clip for you. Enjoy.

http://www.csie.nctu.edu.tw/~ycchuang/shehui.swf

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear Chinese "voted" to support communism because they were so downtrodden they figured they didn't have much to lose.

You are right on this. Back then, people had nothing to lose, and besides, they got land after the landlord escaped to Taiwan. That was a right choice back to 1940s.
For now, I think if nationalist in Taiwan decides to liberate mainland, they will be welcomed.

[Ningning]

I don't know if "welcomed" is the exact word to use. there is still a lot of bad blood / bad sentiments between mainlanders and the KMT (i think that's what you are reffering to when you say "nationalist"). \

I agree with your earlier post "All taiwan need to do is just wait, with patience. Mainland china is changing"
in my estimation, it will take another generation for a sucessful reunification to come about (ie when my generation, college student age range, comes to power). Right now the leaders in charge can still remember the harsh post-revolution years, and were brought up on stories of their parents fighting eachother.

btw, as to Matt W's question of where i'm posting from, the answer would be Atlanta, GA.

[tinybear]

So how did you like that clip?

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear So how did you like that clip?

Me? Now it looks funny to me (although I was taught that song in school), the young generation in mainland china would think it was in North korea. Do you have more?

[tinybear]

Personally, I think it's hilarious that they can make such a song and dance about such bullshit, especially the part where the claim that, in socialist countries, the people come first. Former Chinese PM Zhao Ziyang died recently (as you are no doubt aware). The State Council intervened in the funeral arrangements and did not permit the public to mourn him. Ironically, Mr. Zhao was the first high-ranking official in the history of the PRC who showed any care and compassion to the ordinary folk. For that he was sacked and placed under house arrest for 15 years.

So, what other bullshit did they feed you whilst you were at school (in China, presumably?).

[castille]

Well I had all my primary and secondary schooling in China, and I don't recall being brainwashed (unless you count learning maths as brainwashing). Politics was barely mentioned in class (the only reason I even went to politics class was to get an extra credit for the army), half of us didn't even know the words to the national anthem, and we spent most of our days learning important things like maths, science, and languages.

Oh, and schools don't promote socialism anymore. If anything, we were taught in school to go to a good college and make a lot of money.

Maybe you should actually go to China before making up your bullshit. I'm sure Fox News isn't the prime source for learning about other countries.

[tinybear]

I never went to school in China. That's why I'm asking. Is patriotism promoted in schools and if so what meaning is given to it? Can you love your country without loving the Party?

[tinybear]

And in other news: The United States has urged China to improve its human rights record, a day after President Bush vowed to spread world freedom and end tyranny during his second term in office. The State Department said human rights remained a key stumbling block in Sino-US ties, and unless Beijing practised democracy and respected human rights, it couldn't be among America's "best" friends. Spokesman, Richard Boucher, said Washington wanted to see the mainland adopt the same standards as other countries.

[Comrade]

China has been capitalizing for a long time now. You can't be a player unless you're rich.

[tinybear]

Not that long. Barely 25 years.

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear Personally, I think it's hilarious that they can make such a song and dance about such bullshit, especially the part where the claim that, in socialist countries, the people come first. Former Chinese PM Zhao Ziyang died recently (as you are no doubt aware). The State Council intervened in the funeral arrangements and did not permit the public to mourn him. Ironically, Mr. Zhao was the first high-ranking official in the history of the PRC who showed any care and compassion to the ordinary folk. For that he was sacked and placed under house arrest for 15 years. So, what other bullshit did they feed you whilst you were at school (in China, presumably?).

That clip is one of proceeds of culture revolution (I guess). Actually the song itself is not funny, the communist party saved China from prey of western powers. Just check the last 200 years of chinese history, look at what the western nations did in China: pillage, burn, rob money, and cut land. It is communist party that stopped all this humiliation and made China a strong nation.

Although in the last 25 years, especially in the last 15 years, the communist party has quickly gone corrupted, communist did a good job in the past. When Zhao was in power in 1980s, corruption is not this severe. The current communist party is more like a capitalist party.

Mr. Zhao is not the first, there are a lot high-ranking official in the old generation communist, such as Zhou En Lai. When Zhou died, UN decided to show her respect by lowering the flag to half staff, which is the first time for UN in history. As UN secretary general put it "as a premier of a great nation of rich history and big population, did no leave a cent of saving or a child".

Quote by: tinybear I never went to school in China. That's why I'm asking. Is patriotism promoted in schools and if so what meaning is given to it? Can you love your country without loving the Party?

I spent 18 years in school in China, althoug I am now in Canada. That song was taught in elementary school in 1980s. When I was in university in Beijing in 1990s, all I was taught was to study hard. Sure I can love my country without loving the party, although I am personally thankful to communist party, for going university for free.

[tinybear]

It's the Chinese Communist Party who gave you the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution though. It is estimated that some 20 million died as a result.

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear And in other news: The United States has urged China to improve its human rights record, a day after President Bush vowed to spread world freedom and end tyranny during his second term in office. The State Department said human rights remained a key stumbling block in Sino-US ties, and unless Beijing practised democracy and respected human rights, it couldn't be among America's "best" friends. Spokesman, Richard Boucher, said Washington wanted to see the mainland adopt the same standards as other countries.

US is a rich country, China is a poor country. This made them intepreate human rights differently. What is the most important human rights in China? food and jobs. Do I want political freedom when I am struggling for food and clothes? No, I would rather leave that to someone with wisdom. The laogai camp is rediculous, an average chinese would ask: why they want us to make the prison such an attractive place?

China has been there for over 5000 years, suddenly this US, with less 400 years of living experience, come and tell her something is wrong, and demand a change. This is what has been kept happening in the last 25 years. In most cases, the problem in question is culture related. US could be right in some area, but the demanding way is unacceptable. Discussion is possible, when US knows how to respect other cultures. China is not a follower, she has her own principles.

When some one come and tell us that Chinese as a language is too complex and cruel to beginners, and we should switch to English, what can we do? We can do nothing but requesting him/her to express the concern in Chinese.

[tinybear]

Human rights are 'interpreted' differently: that's what they always say and, frankly, I'm sick of it. No matter how poor you are there are certain very basic rights you must have in order to be considered a human being. Any country, rich or poor, who does not have and respect such rights are ruled by tyrants who have no right to rule and should be deposed.

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear It's the Chinese Communist Party who gave you the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution though. It is estimated that some 20 million died as a result.

Well, CCP will be blamed for this in history. But this cannot negate the achievement they have made in the last 50 years. It took China more than 200 years for the population to grow from 300 million to 450 million. After CCP took power in 1949, the population grew from 450 million to 1.2 billion in 1982. This means chinese living standard was improved greatly under CCP.

Before CCP stopped the anachy, tens of millions died each year.

(dont get me wrong, I am not a communist. Ironically, in 1949, my grand father's brother did not get a chance to escape to Taiwan and was executed by communists. The entire family suffered this in serval decades, but I don't take this personally. I am fair, generally speaking, CCP does a good job, with complications)

[tinybear]

OK, since they've done such a good job, they are now ready to address human rights. Now, I wonder when that's gonna happen?