Silenced in China

[tinybear]

Good. Then let China not talk about re-unification with Taiwan unless and until they get rid of one-party rule and allow all its citizens to choose their leaders. Until then, Taiwan should remain free to develop its own independence as its people see fit without intimidation or interference from China.

[castille]

Well if China stopped talking about re-unification, then technically Taiwan would become independent (or go into a civil war between KMT/DDP supporters), and all hell would break loose in China.

Judging by the actions of the US in the past, Americans only understand strength and power. If China backs down, American papers will be screaming "China defeated by the USA!" and "Wimpy Gooks surrender to American power!". Meanwhile, in China, there would be ultra-nationalist revolution and communism will be replaced by Fascism.

[tinybear]

Taiwan is already independent.

[Matt W]

True, but even they don't declare themselves independant.

[tinybear]

China wouldn't even let them have a referendum to decide whether they should, that's why.

[Ningning]

Taiwan still calls itself the "Republic of China." they think that they are China, they just don't recognize the communist government

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear China wouldn't even let them have a referendum to decide whether they should, that's why.

People in taiwan can vote to change their constitution (which claims china and mongolia as part of ROC). But before they finish that, Taiwan is not independent.

[tinybear]

Taiwan has its own President, its own government, its own parliament, its own judiciary, its own military and has total autonomy to deal with all domestic, foreign and defence matters. How's that not independent?

[tinybear]

Quote by: Ningning Taiwan still calls itself the "Republic of China." they think that they are China, they just don't recognize the communist government

Not any more. President Chen does not subscribe to this view.

[allen]

One man's view won't count. He has to change the constitution first. Besides, Chen is president of Republic of China. By taking that job, he accepts Taiwan is not a sperate nation.

[tinybear]

President Chen was elected into office by universal suffrage on a platform which advocates, amongst other things, changing Taiwan's name and independence for Taiwan.

[allen]

yes. he was from DPP platform, but he was also elected under a chinese constitution, to a chinese post. Just wanting to change the name of the state dose not give the state independence, you have to go through the legal changes. Without doing that, taiwan is still part of China.

[tinybear]

He was elected under a Taiwanese constitution. And the people elected him knowing his stance on Taiwanese independence. Need I say more? On the contrary, just claiming Taiwan is under the sovereignty of China without one shred of evidence indicating that China exercises any part of the so-called sovereignty is nothing more than a joke.

[allen]

Who is joking?
Isn't Chen president of ROC? Who in the world accept Taiwan as an independent coutry? If the constitution is Taiwanese, why it includes China?

[tinybear]

If Taiwan is part of China how come China doesn't have any say or part in the running of its affairs?

[allen]

Quote by: tinybear If Taiwan is part of China how come China doesn't have any say or part in the running of its affairs?

R.O.China has been running Taiwan since 1945. President Chen is President of Republic of China, not President of Taiwan.

[Ningning]

Tinybear. it seems that you view the world strictly from your own safe vantage point, critisizing others while not really taking the time to understand the whole story. How do you know that an independent Taiwan is what's best? have you had actual conversations with either taiwanese and/or mainlanders about this issue? Mainlanders and Taiwanese are all basically the same people, they look the same, speak the same language, share the same culture and history. Cross-strait relations have been on the rise, they even offer direct flights now, from parts of the mainland to taiwan.

Have you considered that positive outcomes of a reunification between the mainland and taiwan? Or are you only concerned with promoting "american style independence" throughout the globe.

[tinybear]

Fair enough. Let's consult the Taiwanese people. Let's have a referendum on the issue and let them decide. President Hu and President Chen should have equal opportunities to put their case to them. How about that? Why does China find this so repulsive?

By the way, Taiwanese locals speak a language which is peculiar to Taiwan. And Taiwanese history and culture is unique.

[Matt W]

Ningning:- If I recall rightly, TB is posting from Hong Kong. Where are you, pray tell? Do not be too quick to pre-judge people.

[castille]

Tinybear, did you not read the posts? Taiwan is the REPUBLIC OF CHINA, and has been ruled by the Republic of China for the last 50 years.

Now since you don't know anything about Chinese history, China was traditionally ruled by the KMT (who now rules Taiwan). This was known as the Republic of China. Prior to that China was an imperial state, ruled by an emperor.

The Communists won the civil war in 1949, and established the Peoples Republic of China. The KMT (Republic of China) fled to Taiwan where they declared that they were still the true China.

Therefor, Taiwan is technically part of China. In fact, the KMT Party (Taiwan's original party) maintains that they are the true rulers of China, and not the Chinese Communist Party.

Yes its more complex than America's black and white politics. Just imagine if the Republicans and Democrats started a civil war, and the Democrats won, and the Republicans fled to the Bahamas, but still maintained they were the rightful rulers of the US.