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saif · Jan 10, 2005, 01:47 pm

In an unusual last-ditch move to find clues to the three-year-old killing of a freelance fashion writer, police investigators are trying to get DNA samples from every man in this Cape Cod hamlet, all 790 or so, or as many as will agree.

Raising concerns among civil libertarians and prompting both resistance and support from men in Truro, the state and local police began collecting the genetic samples last week, visiting delicatessens, the post office and even the town dump to politely ask men to cooperate. Legal experts said the sweeping approach had been used only in limited instances before in the United States - although it is more widely used in Europe - and in at least one of those cases it prompted a lawsuit.

Sgt. David Perry of the Truro Police Department and other law enforcement authorities here say that the program is voluntary but that they will pay close attention to those who refuse to provide DNA.
"We're trying to find that person who has something to hide," Sergeant Perry said.

"I really think they're usurping my civil rights," said Mr. Seed, who may know something about DNA because his father is Dr. Richard Seed, the eccentric physicist who drew worldwide attention by announcing seven years ago that he planned to clone humans. "Are they going to chase down everyone who didn't give a sample? It kind of sounds like Stalin's secret police. If there's a murder committed in a restroom, are they going to be asking for a urine sample?"

Mass DNA collection drives, as needle-in-a-haystack as they might sound, have yielded results in criminal investigations in England and Germany. Six years ago in Germany, for example, authorities investigating the rape and murder of an 11-year-old girl collected DNA samples from 16,400 men, a sweep believed to be the largest to date. DNA from one man matched the evidence, prompting him to confess his guilt.

What do you have to say bout this one....

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/na...59&partner=AOL

Lou Minotti · Jan 10, 2005, 01:48 pm

Come and get my DNA...don't mind the bullets.

Mike · Jan 10, 2005, 02:51 pm

Second that.

The Dunedan · Jan 10, 2005, 03:06 pm

They can have my DNA right after they get my guns.

Technosoul · Jan 10, 2005, 04:10 pm

The authorities should never be allowed to collect DNA in order to go "fishing" because that is like searching a house without a warrent.

Plus, it could impose on other copyright laws. As you know if is now possible to clone a human simply by implanting DNA in the womb of a woman and waiting for the birth. So what big bucks I could make if I had some Elvis Presley DNA stored away in my little test tube - I can just imagine who many women would bid big bucks to have the first "Elvis Baby". So do not actors and singers have a right to copyright their DNA so people cannot steal it for future sales in the reporductive market and would not such laws apply to everyone else? Thinking I am just joking... wait and see!

People would want the DNA for Models, Sport's stars, and so forth - depending. Even DNA from smart people, etc.

Personal identity should be protected under law and not used by law just to bust people and get judgements. You cannot be ordered to bear witness about your self in a court and if our DNA is our self then seeking our DNA is just like telling us to confess verbally. (not meaning they do not deserve being put in jail, but rights are rights and we should have DNA rights - no one is much looking into that as of now. They assume DNA is like your finger prints. Now they have the right to take your finger prints and I do not hear anyone shouting "yeah, over my dead body if you get past my gun" concerning the fact that we allow everyone to take those finger prints for I.D. cards and what have you. How Come? What's the difference between finger prints and DNA sample? Will DNA sample become part of the next national ID card?

So that is my two-sidded (flip flopping) opinion. Technosoul.

Lou Minotti · Jan 10, 2005, 04:23 pm

I'm pretty sure you can't make a baby simply by "implanting DNA in the womb of a woman". I'm no scientists but I think it's a wee bit more complex then that.

Dieval · Jan 10, 2005, 06:20 pm

So what kind of nefarious plot do you believe big brother is going to do once it collects everyones DNA?

Lou Minotti · Jan 10, 2005, 06:57 pm

I don't know Dieval, just what could that give them the power to do? Hum....
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWrit...c/d_doc08a.gif
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWrit...r/fw_test.html
http://philipdru.com/audio/whitehurst.mp3

The Dunedan · Jan 10, 2005, 06:59 pm

Q: What would they do with it?
A: Anything they felt like.

Yet another reason to oppose such things; issues of freedom and self-ownership aside, such power will ALWAYS be abused.

Dieval · Jan 10, 2005, 07:21 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Lou Minotti

I don't know Dieval, just what could that give them the power to do? Hum....
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWrit...c/d_doc08a.gif
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWrit...r/fw_test.html
http://philipdru.com/audio/whitehurst.mp3

Sorry, but your first 2 links don't work while I'm at work...and the 3rd is....what?

Dieval · Jan 10, 2005, 07:23 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Dunedan

Q: What would they do with it?
A: Anything they felt like.

Yet another reason to oppose such things; issues of freedom and self-ownership aside, such power will ALWAYS be abused.

That is nothing more than pure speculation. Did anyone say that they would collect all this DNA evidence and not put in safe gaurds in place to prevent wrong doings from happening? I must have missed that.

rez · Jan 10, 2005, 07:28 pm

DNA isn't 100% correct.

The Dunedan · Jan 10, 2005, 07:34 pm

Safegaurds, safefaurds...*musing*....
Oh! You mean like in SSA-33 where it promises that the SSN would never be used for identification, right? You know, how we were promised that we'd never have to give our SSN to get a phone, or an apartment, or a Driving License, or to purchase a gun? Is THAT what you mean, Dieval? [/sarcasm]

Dieval · Jan 10, 2005, 09:19 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Dunedan

Safegaurds, safefaurds...*musing*....
Oh! You mean like in SSA-33 where it promises that the SSN would never be used for identification, right? You know, how we were promised that we'd never have to give our SSN to get a phone, or an apartment, or a Driving License, or to purchase a gun? Is THAT what you mean, Dieval? [/sarcasm]

As nothing shows up about SSA-33 on the SSA website, maybe you could supply a bit more information about this...

Now, back on topic - the DNA collection being done to catch a murderer in a small town - this is bad why? They might find a murderer?

Morgan_Freeman · Jan 10, 2005, 09:26 pm

Dunedan:

I don't like this idea either, but I also like to see justice done. If our government were more of a minarchy, with a much better track record for civil liberties, would you trust investigators with your DNA? Would you trust an independent investigator?

rez · Jan 10, 2005, 09:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Dieval

Now, back on topic - the DNA collection being done to catch a murderer in a small town - this is bad why? They might find a murderer?

You give suspects DNA tests.

The idea that you can give everybody a DNA test and find the bad gay is great Dieval! YAY for dieval! YOU FOUND THE ANSWER, an answer only found in the U.S.A by the way!

Does the murderer live in the community or something? what about tourists - do they get tested?

also I said it before, DNA tests are not 100% accurate.

Dieval · Jan 10, 2005, 09:39 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Lou Minotti

I don't know Dieval, just what could that give them the power to do? Hum....
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWrit...c/d_doc08a.gif
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWrit...r/fw_test.html
http://philipdru.com/audio/whitehurst.mp3

Sorry Lou, but I'm not seeing how problems with the FBI crime labs, from a completely different event 10 years ago, which have either been taken care of or were dismissed, ( http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=1026574 ), has to do with taking DNA samples from this town now? Maybe you could shed some light on that..

Dieval · Jan 10, 2005, 09:41 pm

Quote:

Quote by: rez

You give suspects DNA tests.

The idea that you can give everybody a DNA test and find the bad gay is great Dieval! YAY for dieval! YOU FOUND THE ANSWER, an answer only found in the U.S.A by the way!

Does the murderer live in the community or something? what about tourists - do they get tested?

also I said it before, DNA tests are not 100% accurate.

The idea is that it's a small town where this is feasable to do. Applying it to the rest of the country would be a monumental task that would have bigger issues to tackle before it could be done.

rez · Jan 10, 2005, 10:28 pm

These are some things I know.

its a small town.....its also a tourist attraction........a murderer doesnt have to live in the town.

I also know there are other ways to finding a murderer besides getting people to give DNA samples.

does this make sense?

Dieval · Jan 10, 2005, 11:08 pm

Quote:

Quote by: rez

These are some things I know.

its a small town.....its also a tourist attraction........a murderer doesnt have to live in the town.

I also know there are other ways to finding a murderer besides getting people to give DNA samples.

does this make sense?

You apparently did read the story very closely...sure there are other ways to find murderer, but as the story says - "In an unusual last-ditch move" - they've exahausted pretty much all other options. If none of the DNA from the 780 men in the town match the murderer, than they have nothing to fear...if they do, well, guess what, the murder is solved. Go figure.

Jan 10, 2005, 01:47 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
saif Sword of Truth Location: Elmira, NY Posts: 225	Knock Knock - The DNA Gustapo In an unusual last-ditch move to find clues to the three-year-old killing of a freelance fashion writer, police investigators are trying to get DNA samples from every man in this Cape Cod hamlet, all 790 or so, or as many as will agree. Raising concerns among civil libertarians and prompting both resistance and support from men in Truro, the state and local police began collecting the genetic samples last week, visiting delicatessens, the post office and even the town dump to politely ask men to cooperate. Legal experts said the sweeping approach had been used only in limited instances before in the United States - although it is more widely used in Europe - and in at least one of those cases it prompted a lawsuit. Sgt. David Perry of the Truro Police Department and other law enforcement authorities here say that the program is voluntary but that they will pay close attention to those who refuse to provide DNA. "We're trying to find that person who has something to hide," Sergeant Perry said. "I really think they're usurping my civil rights," said Mr. Seed, who may know something about DNA because his father is Dr. Richard Seed, the eccentric physicist who drew worldwide attention by announcing seven years ago that he planned to clone humans. "Are they going to chase down everyone who didn't give a sample? It kind of sounds like Stalin's secret police. If there's a murder committed in a restroom, are they going to be asking for a urine sample?" Mass DNA collection drives, as needle-in-a-haystack as they might sound, have yielded results in criminal investigations in England and Germany. Six years ago in Germany, for example, authorities investigating the rape and murder of an 11-year-old girl collected DNA samples from 16,400 men, a sweep believed to be the largest to date. DNA from one man matched the evidence, prompting him to confess his guilt. What do you have to say bout this one.... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/na...59&partner=AOL (Click to expand) Come visit the Evolution of Thought Institute today!

Jan 10, 2005, 02:51 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Mike ... Location: TX Posts: 32	Second that. My Webpage

Jan 10, 2005, 06:20 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Dieval Right of Center Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,764	So what kind of nefarious plot do you believe big brother is going to do once it collects everyones DNA? "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

Jan 10, 2005, 06:57 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	I don't know Dieval, just what could that give them the power to do? Hum.... http://www.public-action.com/SkyWrit...c/d_doc08a.gif http://www.public-action.com/SkyWrit...r/fw_test.html http://philipdru.com/audio/whitehurst.mp3 Last edited by Lou Minotti; Jan 10, 2005 at 07:00 pm.

Jan 10, 2005, 01:48 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	Come and get my DNA...don't mind the bullets.

Jan 10, 2005, 03:06 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
The Dunedan Hot Lava Posts: 925	They can have my DNA right after they get my guns.

Jan 10, 2005, 04:10 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	The authorities should never be allowed to collect DNA in order to go "fishing" because that is like searching a house without a warrent. Plus, it could impose on other copyright laws. As you know if is now possible to clone a human simply by implanting DNA in the womb of a woman and waiting for the birth. So what big bucks I could make if I had some Elvis Presley DNA stored away in my little test tube - I can just imagine who many women would bid big bucks to have the first "Elvis Baby". So do not actors and singers have a right to copyright their DNA so people cannot steal it for future sales in the reporductive market and would not such laws apply to everyone else? Thinking I am just joking... wait and see! People would want the DNA for Models, Sport's stars, and so forth - depending. Even DNA from smart people, etc. Personal identity should be protected under law and not used by law just to bust people and get judgements. You cannot be ordered to bear witness about your self in a court and if our DNA is our self then seeking our DNA is just like telling us to confess verbally. (not meaning they do not deserve being put in jail, but rights are rights and we should have DNA rights - no one is much looking into that as of now. They assume DNA is like your finger prints. Now they have the right to take your finger prints and I do not hear anyone shouting "yeah, over my dead body if you get past my gun" concerning the fact that we allow everyone to take those finger prints for I.D. cards and what have you. How Come? What's the difference between finger prints and DNA sample? Will DNA sample become part of the next national ID card? So that is my two-sidded (flip flopping) opinion. Technosoul.

Jan 10, 2005, 04:23 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	I'm pretty sure you can't make a baby simply by "implanting DNA in the womb of a woman". I'm no scientists but I think it's a wee bit more complex then that.

Jan 10, 2005, 06:59 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
The Dunedan Hot Lava Posts: 925	Q: What would they do with it? A: Anything they felt like. Yet another reason to oppose such things; issues of freedom and self-ownership aside, such power will ALWAYS be abused.

Jan 10, 2005, 07:28 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
rez technê Posts: 2,620	DNA isn't 100% correct.

Jan 10, 2005, 07:34 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
The Dunedan Hot Lava Posts: 925	Safegaurds, safefaurds...musing.... Oh! You mean like in SSA-33 where it promises that the SSN would never be used for identification, right? You know, how we were promised that we'd never have to give our SSN to get a phone, or an apartment, or a Driving License, or to purchase a gun? Is THAT what you mean, Dieval? [/sarcasm]

Jan 10, 2005, 09:26 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman Illogic Hunter Location: Seattle Posts: 2,385	Dunedan: I don't like this idea either, but I also like to see justice done. If our government were more of a minarchy, with a much better track record for civil liberties, would you trust investigators with your DNA? Would you trust an independent investigator?

Jan 10, 2005, 10:28 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
rez technê Posts: 2,620	These are some things I know. its a small town.....its also a tourist attraction........a murderer doesnt have to live in the town. I also know there are other ways to finding a murderer besides getting people to give DNA samples. does this make sense?