Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

tusaki · Jan 8, 2005, 03:11 pm

Well, you could be right, the Chinese, or to be more precise, ethnic Chinese live all over south-east Asia, and are usually doing pretty well. They own shops, factories and offices are relatively rich and live in sheltered communities. The example you provided, about the rioting, made me think about the Jews in Germany. The similarity is this: You have a poor uneducated majority who jealously sees an ethnic minority doing pretty well, so when things turn bad, they are an easy scapegoat.

However, they may hate us, but that wont prevent me from doing good. Did you know the Netherlands, with 16 million inhabitants, collected 112 million euros for the tsunami victems? And you see people collecting stuff and flying over there to bring it to the people. Quitting their jobs to set up orphanages, people who are 'in-between-jobs' who are becomming volunteers to help. Amazing. Must be because we had our own disaster with water, so we can relate a bit.

tinybear · Jan 8, 2005, 03:14 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Lou Minotti

And I have pictures of Chinese tanks rolling over peaceful student protestors. I have also seen pictures of Special Forces machine-gunning woman and children as they try to exit a burning building. What is your point?

Where have I said Tiananmen was right? Where I have I supported communist China's brutal suppression of the student/workers movement of June 4th 1989? I condemn that as much as I condemn the Indonesian rapes and riots of 1998.

But, your point is?

Lou Minotti · Jan 8, 2005, 03:15 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

I was asked to produce evidence. I comolied with the request. Here's more.

http://www.hrw.org/reports98/indonesia3/govt.htm

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/4120/jkt.html

To play your game...why are you changing the subject?

Lou Minotti · Jan 8, 2005, 03:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Where have I said Tiananmen was right? Where I have I supported communist China's brutal suppression of the student/workers movement of June 4th 1989? I condemn that as much as I condemn the Indonesian rapes and riots of 1998.

But, your point is?

My point is that you don't have a point.

tinybear · Jan 8, 2005, 03:24 pm

Well, before we digressed, my point was: if there are countries hit by the tsunamis who refuse aid, there's nothing we can do. We cannot force them to accept it. I should have thought this was quite obvious.

Lou Minotti · Jan 8, 2005, 03:30 pm

But the thread is about the moronic behavior of Anne Coulter. Don't you think she could keep her trap shut and not turn everything into a politic cluster f@ck when faced with 160,000 dead people?

tinybear · Jan 8, 2005, 03:35 pm

Some of her points were valid and some not. She is entitled, however, to express her views in whichever way she sees fit provided it's not against the law (as we all are).

Lou Minotti · Jan 8, 2005, 03:38 pm

Who is saying she shouldn't be able to express herself? I'm just calling her "expression" moronic.

tinybear · Jan 8, 2005, 03:53 pm

I thought you said she should "keep her trap shut".

Lou Minotti · Jan 8, 2005, 04:07 pm

I said she "should" (my opinion obviously). Never said she should be forced to not speak.

tinybear · Jan 8, 2005, 04:14 pm

Oh. OK. I'm sure An Coulter will be relieved to hear that.

Lou Minotti · Jan 8, 2005, 04:15 pm

I don't care.

tinybear · Jan 8, 2005, 04:18 pm

Noted.

Lou Minotti · Jan 8, 2005, 04:26 pm

Finally.

PatrickHenry · Jan 8, 2005, 05:12 pm

You guys... Lose the one-liners or one worders as the case may be...
Re: India and aid http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/.../0708india.htm
India is on a different track right now...

tusaki · Jan 8, 2005, 05:24 pm

I like tinybear

haven't seen an ad-hominem so far, so he'll be a good addition since he does seem to have an outspoken mind.

And about coulter.. well, I guess free speech and all prevents anyone from stopping her, and you have those types everywhere. In the Netherlands we had a politician called "Pim Fortuyn" who had an outspoken mind too, which ran contrary to the views of the established elite, but found a lot of resonance within the dutch population. Do you know what they (the established elite) hated him for most? The ability to shout something and changing his opinion without losing credibility. He never really "flip flopped", he... adapted his opinion, build nuance in it. He was -shock- being honest. Of course, some wacko's hate honest people and start demonizing them, so he was murdered. (first political murder in the Netherlands ever)

But he was on his way to becomming the prime minister, and that would have been a sight to behold. He was a flamboyant, bald, outspoken homesexual. It would have been so much fun to see him shake hands with Bush, or Putin or the Pope. On the other hand he wouldn't have been taken seriously enough by other countries. Oh well.. w'll never know. Here is a wikipedia entry on him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn

bishop · Jan 8, 2005, 05:31 pm

Quote:

Re: India and aid http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon...3/0708india.htm
India is on a different track right now...

looks to me like india's eager to quit their mixed-basket exchange rate regime and begin to truly float their currency. countries who depend on foreign aid typically have currencies that depend on foreign currencies. if you can move away from that, you definitely get respect from the international community.

plus, this has everything to do with india's competitive relationship with china, and nothing to do with the tsunami. doesn't really have anything to do with gaining a seat on the security council either. china is moving towards the mixed basket exchange rate, so if india can convert to a genuine float rate it stands to receive more fdi and capital investment than china. i.e. its economy will beat china's in the long run.

Lou Minotti · Jan 8, 2005, 05:32 pm

I also like Tinybear. But I hate Anne Coulter.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/coulter_07_10_03.html
Coulter at her finest. When you can't answer questions backed up by AP and MSNBC, you need to rethink your political strategy, in my opinion. Say what you will about Alex Jones but Coulter comes off like a babbling moron.

RickSp · Jan 8, 2005, 07:03 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

My mistake. Indonesia did not refuse aid. My comments about their corruption, pillaging, raping...etc are true though.

Your comments about Indonesian past history under an entirely different regime are so out of date as to be completely meaningless. Indonesia has lots of problems but your xenophic and condescending comments are way off the mark, to put it mildly.

tusaki · Jan 8, 2005, 07:25 pm

He gave evidence of something like that happening in 1998, that's not out-of-date. And it's not like the caucasians have the monopoly on xenophobia. I believe he was right... to a certain extent. There are anti-chinese sentiments in the indonesian population, in my oppinion because of the perceived "priviledged" lifestyle of the ethnic chinese in these societies. I do not, however, agree with his conclusion that because of these sentiments we must not aid them. I think those people want our help, and most of us are willing to chip in.

Jan 8, 2005, 03:11 pm	#61 (permalink) (top)
tusaki Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805	Well, you could be right, the Chinese, or to be more precise, ethnic Chinese live all over south-east Asia, and are usually doing pretty well. They own shops, factories and offices are relatively rich and live in sheltered communities. The example you provided, about the rioting, made me think about the Jews in Germany. The similarity is this: You have a poor uneducated majority who jealously sees an ethnic minority doing pretty well, so when things turn bad, they are an easy scapegoat. However, they may hate us, but that wont prevent me from doing good. Did you know the Netherlands, with 16 million inhabitants, collected 112 million euros for the tsunami victems? And you see people collecting stuff and flying over there to bring it to the people. Quitting their jobs to set up orphanages, people who are 'in-between-jobs' who are becomming volunteers to help. Amazing. Must be because we had our own disaster with water, so we can relate a bit. Hope & Dream Last edited by tusaki; Jan 8, 2005 at 03:16 pm.

Jan 8, 2005, 05:12 pm	#75 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,446	You guys... Lose the one-liners or one worders as the case may be... Re: India and aid http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/.../0708india.htm India is on a different track right now... "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Jan 8, 2005, 05:24 pm	#76 (permalink) (top)
tusaki Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805	I like tinybear haven't seen an ad-hominem so far, so he'll be a good addition since he does seem to have an outspoken mind. And about coulter.. well, I guess free speech and all prevents anyone from stopping her, and you have those types everywhere. In the Netherlands we had a politician called "Pim Fortuyn" who had an outspoken mind too, which ran contrary to the views of the established elite, but found a lot of resonance within the dutch population. Do you know what they (the established elite) hated him for most? The ability to shout something and changing his opinion without losing credibility. He never really "flip flopped", he... adapted his opinion, build nuance in it. He was -shock- being honest. Of course, some wacko's hate honest people and start demonizing them, so he was murdered. (first political murder in the Netherlands ever) But he was on his way to becomming the prime minister, and that would have been a sight to behold. He was a flamboyant, bald, outspoken homesexual. It would have been so much fun to see him shake hands with Bush, or Putin or the Pope. On the other hand he wouldn't have been taken seriously enough by other countries. Oh well.. w'll never know. Here is a wikipedia entry on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn Hope & Dream

Jan 8, 2005, 07:25 pm	#80 (permalink) (top)
tusaki Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805	He gave evidence of something like that happening in 1998, that's not out-of-date. And it's not like the caucasians have the monopoly on xenophobia. I believe he was right... to a certain extent. There are anti-chinese sentiments in the indonesian population, in my oppinion because of the perceived "priviledged" lifestyle of the ethnic chinese in these societies. I do not, however, agree with his conclusion that because of these sentiments we must not aid them. I think those people want our help, and most of us are willing to chip in. Hope & Dream

Jan 8, 2005, 03:24 pm	#65 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,272	Well, before we digressed, my point was: if there are countries hit by the tsunamis who refuse aid, there's nothing we can do. We cannot force them to accept it. I should have thought this was quite obvious.

Jan 8, 2005, 03:30 pm	#66 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	But the thread is about the moronic behavior of Anne Coulter. Don't you think she could keep her trap shut and not turn everything into a politic cluster f@ck when faced with 160,000 dead people?

Jan 8, 2005, 03:35 pm	#67 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,272	Some of her points were valid and some not. She is entitled, however, to express her views in whichever way she sees fit provided it's not against the law (as we all are).

Jan 8, 2005, 03:38 pm	#68 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	Who is saying she shouldn't be able to express herself? I'm just calling her "expression" moronic.

Jan 8, 2005, 03:53 pm	#69 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,272	I thought you said she should "keep her trap shut".

Jan 8, 2005, 04:07 pm	#70 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	I said she "should" (my opinion obviously). Never said she should be forced to not speak.

Jan 8, 2005, 04:14 pm	#71 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,272	Oh. OK. I'm sure An Coulter will be relieved to hear that.

Jan 8, 2005, 04:15 pm	#72 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	I don't care.

Jan 8, 2005, 04:18 pm	#73 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,272	Noted.

Jan 8, 2005, 04:26 pm	#74 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	Finally.

Jan 8, 2005, 05:32 pm	#78 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	I also like Tinybear. But I hate Anne Coulter. http://www.prisonplanet.com/coulter_07_10_03.html Coulter at her finest. When you can't answer questions backed up by AP and MSNBC, you need to rethink your political strategy, in my opinion. Say what you will about Alex Jones but Coulter comes off like a babbling moron.