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RickSp · Dec 24, 2004, 04:38 pm

The message of Mosul is that armored Humvees and steel and concrete mess buildings won't really make a difference. An Iraqi wearing an Iraqi army uniform with an explosive vest beneath it can kill all those around him in any facility.

The message to the US soldiers is that they should not, cannot trust the Iraqi soldiers they are training or leading into battle. They cannot tell whether they will fight, run or turn their weapons against the Americans. And one just might be wearing a bomb.

The message to the Iraqis is that the Americans cannot protect them, either on the streets or going to the polls in a few weeks. If the Americans cannot even protect their own soldiers while eating lunch in a "secure" base, what chance does an Iraqi civilian have on the street or at a polling place?

Most Iraqis don't want us in Iraq at least according to opinion polls commissioned by the coalition Provisional Authority last May, before it skipped town. 65% of the Shia and 61% of Sunnis as well as 75% of Baghdad residents want the US and British troops to be pulled out immediately. Only about 10% viewed the Americans as liberators. (Sorry 'bout that Zell.) There have been no opinion polls published since, but I doubt the downward trend of American popularity has changed.

Currently, the Iraqis are suffering not only violence but shortages in gasoline and electricity. The insurgency is part of the problem while corruption in the Oil Ministry now under Iraqi control is also thought to play a major role.

The real message of Mosul is that we are in the middle of a guerrilla war which is only building in intensity. We have not won the "hearts and minds" of the Iraqis and we have not won on the ground. Despite repeated claims that the US is "breaking the back" of insurgency, the insurgency, if it even has a back, is far from broken. We are losing this war and the longer we stay, the worse it will become.

Disturbing_Clown · Dec 24, 2004, 04:49 pm

Unfortunately, those who support this madness will not take heed untill many more people are dead on both sides.

RickSp · Dec 26, 2004, 05:49 pm

Quote:

The deadly suicide attack on a US military base in Mosul this week was an "inside job" carried out by insurgents who are part of the Iraqi armed forces, Asia Times Online has been told.

Sources said a strong nexus between Iraqi forces and the resistance is what allowed them to carry out the most devastating attack on US troops since the beginning of the invasion. US forces have imposed a curfew in Mosul and have launched a military operation in the city, but, the sources say, this will have little effect on the problem, for the simple reason that the US-trained Iraqi military is heavily infected with people loyal to the resistance groups.

Mosul attack 'an inside job'

Sonart · Dec 26, 2004, 06:31 pm

A blind man could have seen this coming...

April 22, 2004 --"But he (Gen Dempsey, commander of the US army's 1st Armored Division) acknowledged that one in every 10 of the Iraqi security forces trained by the coalition ended up working against the US-led forces."--

Oct. 11, 2004 --"Iraq's new security forces are heavily infiltrated by insurgents, and the guerrilla groups have access to almost unlimited money to pay for deadly attacks, according to a U.S. defense official who provided new details on the evolution of the rebels."--

Oct. 26, 2004 --"Saturday's bloody massacre of dozens of Iraqi army recruits heading home for leave after training at the Kirkush military base on the Iran-Iraq border has raised fears that Iraq's security forces have become deeply infiltrated by insurgents."--

Oct. 26, 2004 --"The police and military forces all have insurgents in them," said Lt. Col. Jeffrey Sinclair of the 1st Infantry Division. "You don't have a pure force."--

.

bishop · Dec 26, 2004, 07:25 pm

rick.. no disagreements here..

the sad truth is that when you point these things out to bush supporters, they usually call you a defeatist and then call it a day. the good ol' game of an ostrich sticking its head into the sand. either that, or they come up with new excuses for why we must stay. shedding off old excuses for new ones is politics 101.

castille · Jan 1, 2005, 06:52 am

This reminds me of organized criminals who infiltrate the police force and leak inside information to their criminal overlords, or take out particularly law-abiding police chiefs.

Dec 24, 2004, 04:38 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,589	The Messages of Mosul The message of Mosul is that armored Humvees and steel and concrete mess buildings won't really make a difference. An Iraqi wearing an Iraqi army uniform with an explosive vest beneath it can kill all those around him in any facility. The message to the US soldiers is that they should not, cannot trust the Iraqi soldiers they are training or leading into battle. They cannot tell whether they will fight, run or turn their weapons against the Americans. And one just might be wearing a bomb. The message to the Iraqis is that the Americans cannot protect them, either on the streets or going to the polls in a few weeks. If the Americans cannot even protect their own soldiers while eating lunch in a "secure" base, what chance does an Iraqi civilian have on the street or at a polling place? Most Iraqis don't want us in Iraq at least according to opinion polls commissioned by the coalition Provisional Authority last May, before it skipped town. 65% of the Shia and 61% of Sunnis as well as 75% of Baghdad residents want the US and British troops to be pulled out immediately. Only about 10% viewed the Americans as liberators. (Sorry 'bout that Zell.) There have been no opinion polls published since, but I doubt the downward trend of American popularity has changed. Currently, the Iraqis are suffering not only violence but shortages in gasoline and electricity. The insurgency is part of the problem while corruption in the Oil Ministry now under Iraqi control is also thought to play a major role. The real message of Mosul is that we are in the middle of a guerrilla war which is only building in intensity. We have not won the "hearts and minds" of the Iraqis and we have not won on the ground. Despite repeated claims that the US is "breaking the back" of insurgency, the insurgency, if it even has a back, is far from broken. We are losing this war and the longer we stay, the worse it will become. Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Dec 26, 2004, 06:31 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Sonart It's only logical Location: San Diego Posts: 4,958	A blind man could have seen this coming... April 22, 2004 --"But he (Gen Dempsey, commander of the US army's 1st Armored Division) acknowledged that one in every 10 of the Iraqi security forces trained by the coalition ended up working against the US-led forces."-- Oct. 11, 2004 --"Iraq's new security forces are heavily infiltrated by insurgents, and the guerrilla groups have access to almost unlimited money to pay for deadly attacks, according to a U.S. defense official who provided new details on the evolution of the rebels."-- Oct. 26, 2004 --"Saturday's bloody massacre of dozens of Iraqi army recruits heading home for leave after training at the Kirkush military base on the Iran-Iraq border has raised fears that Iraq's security forces have become deeply infiltrated by insurgents."-- Oct. 26, 2004 --"The police and military forces all have insurgents in them," said Lt. Col. Jeffrey Sinclair of the 1st Infantry Division. "You don't have a pure force."-- . I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

Jan 1, 2005, 06:52 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	This reminds me of organized criminals who infiltrate the police force and leak inside information to their criminal overlords, or take out particularly law-abiding police chiefs. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Dec 24, 2004, 04:49 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Disturbing_Clown Molten Ash Posts: 30	Unfortunately, those who support this madness will not take heed untill many more people are dead on both sides.

Dec 26, 2004, 07:25 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	rick.. no disagreements here.. the sad truth is that when you point these things out to bush supporters, they usually call you a defeatist and then call it a day. the good ol' game of an ostrich sticking its head into the sand. either that, or they come up with new excuses for why we must stay. shedding off old excuses for new ones is politics 101.