Voices of Iraq (the real people)

[Anniee]

Exactly, rcne. I agree on all points.

Isn't it odd, BSD that these days the anti-American propaganda comes from...America? LOL

[bullshitdetector]

Yes it is pretty bad that our real enemies are our own people these days. There is nary a word ever spoken of the US that is good from them, so bad that they actually look for ways to implement blame and shapeshift a negative slant to anything american.

[Scribbler1]

That is good news Anniee, don't let dissenting minds discourage those who know there is good coming from the war and that the troops are doing a fine job! As much as this doesn't represent all Iraqis, anti american propaganda doesn't either.

I just want to clarify one point here. I have not heard ANYONE from either side say the troops are NOT doing a good job. It's the political leadership in all this which is coming under much deserved fire.

Also, there is a big difference between being anti-administration and being anti-American. You should know this BSD. Using your standards, the Republicans were almost ALL anti-American during the PREVIOUS administration, weren't they?

[Anniee]

I hear people constantly disparaging the troops; I haven't read much here to know if that's the case at Volconvo, but one would probably have to have one's head in the sand not to hear bad things about the evil racist murdering soldiers and how they torture people and eat babies for fun. (Only slight hyperbole there; I have bunches of emails about the racist murderers for example, from certain leftists.) But then I never examine or learn anything do I?

By the way; I didn't know too many Republicans who complained about Clinton's acts of murderous aggression...except Waco. I mean most were disgusted but not too surprised at the aspirin factory bombing.

And now hopefully, back to topic.

[RickSp]

Isn't it odd, BSD that these days the anti-American propaganda comes from...America? LOL

So I guess all of us who don't support the empire are anti-American. Damned traitors every one of us. I guess you haven't noticed how much of the rest of the world is also what you might term "anti-American", even though they might call themselves anti-imperialist or just opposed to needless war.

And things are going just great in Iraq. Oh yah. Absolutely. And water runs uphill

Yes it is pretty bad that our real enemies are our own people these days.

Well, I guess that says it all doesn't it. Surrounded by enemies Mr. BS. Get use to it. We are just getting started.

[Anniee]

Rick, don't put words in my mouth. That is a deliberate twisting of what I said and what I was replying to. There IS anti-American propaganda ("more American arrogance and hypocrisy" is just one of the milder examples from this very board) which I would define as disparaging the US as a nation, as a whole; ridiculing the people and our way of life in general, and also expressing hatred towards the nation. Most of that which I've seen IS coming from the US; I'm sure I'd see more if I went to England, as they love to do it too; but to try and deny it comes out of here as well is ludicrous.

NOWHERE did I make the statement (or even imply) what you falsely accredited to me.

By the way, Rick, I'll take the word of the Iraqi people over armchair quarterbacks and even reporters who stick to their hotels. Yes, I think the real people know very well how to express themselves, now that they are actually allowed to do so. If you saw the preview, you saw some saying they don't care for the situation, and others saying they can't believe their new freedom. More of the latter. There was 450 hours from over 2000 common citizens. Yeah I think they know more about their situation than you do.

[Osborn F Enready]

BSD said: Yes it is pretty bad that our real enemies are our own people these days.

I say: I agree 100%, we just differ on who the finger is pointed at. Some people think that just because someone is protesting an action, an individual or an agenda it makes them Un-American or even Anti-American based solely on the fact that action, individual or agenda is a representative of the U.S. Government. Our system is built on discussion, debate and compromise. If all of the views are not allowed to discuss and debate, they are not included in the compromise. This amounts to people not being represented. They get taxed by the system, and they are forced to obey the system in order to function without being obviously reclusive. This is what led to the war with England and how we became a nation.

I think it is odd that someone would so easily cast aside an opinion that is against theirs, without being willing to see the points and compare the information. If you feel and believe strongly in something, it should be brought out to discuss whether or not it is popular. If people think you are wrong, they will SHOW you where you are wrong, and the only way to do that is with factual proof or logical path in theory.

People that are out to debate and argue a topic, do it with the purpose of bringing facts and reason to the situation, leading to a clearer resolve. If you aren't even willing to debate something because someone labeled it Un-American, or Anti-American, it kind of puts a label on you..... if you believe in labels that is.

Annie,

I notice you started the thread with the title "Voices of Iraq(the REAL people)". This is already biasing the entire thread. Are people who are voicing different opinion NOT real people?

This is a thread about peoples opinion, posted in a factual type of format. It is still opinion. The resistance the troops, the new "government", and the people in general are getting is proof of itself there is more than "moderate" resistance from inside.

I sense some HEAVY bias, and the replies show some.

[RickSp]

Seems to me that my representation is pretty accurate. Nowhere in the the criticism I see of this reckless and dangerous administration do I find any "disparaging the US as a nation, as a whole; ridiculing the people and our way of life in general, and also expressing hatred towards the nation."

If that is the way you see it, we will obviously continue to differ in our perspectives.

[bullshitdetector]

So I guess all of us who don't support the empire are anti-American. Damned traitors every one of us. I guess you haven't noticed how much of the rest of the world is also what you might term "anti-American", even though they might call themselves anti-imperialist or just opposed to needless war.

And things are going just great in Iraq. Oh yah. Absolutely. And water runs uphill



Well, I guess that says it all doesn't it. Surrounded by enemies Mr. BS. Get use to it. We are just getting started.

You're being emotional and not using logic, if those who are worried about my comment think it applies to them maybe they shouldn't spend their time playing the gadfly championing the anti american cause 99% of the time.

If this thread isn't something you all are interested why not take Seans new policy into consideration and not post on it.

[Anniee]

Yes; that is true. This was posted as an informative article about the *good* news coming out of Iraq; and has degenerated into slamming the US and dismissing the people who are telling us that good news. If one isn't interested in the good news Iraqi citizens have to give us (not the insurgents/terrorists that drove the real citizens OUT of their homes in the first place) then perhaps they should go back to the NOT-anti-American threads about how arrogant and hypocritical Americans are and continue the bash-fest there.

[Scribbler1]

I hear people constantly disparaging the troops; I haven't read much here to know if that's the case at Volconvo, but one would probably have to have one's head in the sand not to hear bad things about the evil racist murdering soldiers and how they torture people and eat babies for fun. (Only slight hyperbole there; I have bunches of emails about the racist murderers for example, from certain leftists.) But then I never examine or learn anything do I?

If you mean the Abu Gharib prisoner story, I agree with you. There WAS a lot of criticism about that and a few other incidents. But I feel this is SOME troops as opposed to THE troops. I don't hear any generalized criticism of the soldiers as a whole.

By the way; I didn't know too many Republicans who complained about Clinton's acts of murderous aggression...except Waco. I mean most were disgusted but not too surprised at the aspirin factory bombing.

When BSD said "Yes it is pretty bad that our real enemies are our own people these days. There is nary a word ever spoken of the US that is good from them, so bad that they actually look for ways to implement blame and shapeshift a negative slant to anything american." I took that to mean pretty much ALL criticism and not just the military. There is more to this country than its army.
This is what I saw during the Clinton years from the right.

And now hopefully, back to topic.

Agreed...onward and upward! :)

[Anniee]

Scribbler, as I said in my own observations no distinctions are made; the troops have been disparaged pretty universally. Except when the same people want to cash in on anti-Bush sentiment by saying they care that the poor troops don't have enough armor and we should care enough to bring them home.

A C.S. Lewis fan? Perhaps we shall meet in more amenable topics at another time then.