Suicide Bombers

[Sean]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PeterAngelo,)
Sodfather:
Get a law degree - it is the answer to everything.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Everything eh? I hope you're right, I'm pre-law :confused:

Listen, old people are the reason why we are in a world we are in, because at their time they were to coward to speak out like the people of today. Those old farts laid around fearful of losing their nice cars etc.. now we and our children will have to pay for their mistakes. I don't listen to old people, they didn't know what they were doing then, what makes them know what they are doing now.. and gramps there probably has nothing to lose except his false teeth now, oh and maybe medicare.. no, wait, that's all but gone now anyway.. thanks you old farts for nothing..

[Sodfather]

I wouldn't go as far as to say, "Thanks for nothing, old farts," but I will say that wisdom doesn't come with age. People who are intelligent remain intelligent as elders; people who were idiots, passers-by, tree stumps, grocery store managers, etc. in their youth will most likely remain so: unintelligent and unwise.

[PeterAngelo]

Sodfather:

Get help - you hate - that's all.

I have had an FBI file since I was sixteen for anti-Vietnam activism.

You assume you are the first generation to have the guts to do what? Post semi-literate hate on this forum.

Billions of bravehearts have died for generations beyond recorded history fighting tyrants like bush.

I have lived a mystical life because I make it happen myself - in spite of losers who do not have a clue - and the preditors who do.

Old fart - that's your mother - I rent new farts with my money - ain't slavery grand?

I don't know how old you are - but life is really, really short and if your unlucky - you will be old before you know it.

Best advice for you - die young - life is too hard for the mentally challenged.

[NittLion78]

This has obviously turned into a name-calling match, so I'll bring us back to reality.

You want to draw parallels between the American Revolt and bin Laden? Okay. Each side was/is willing to die for its cause. I'm sure that somewhere along the way, some innocent Tories and revolution sympathizers were killed in the conflicts - there's always some collateral damage.

But targeting civilians? Outright targeting civilians? It's cowardly. It's dishonorable. It's more of the typical nonsense preached by mullahs who distort the truths of the Koran. Their version of jihad is no different than the sick slaughter of the seven Crusades: take the peaceful teachings of either book and change it to your own liking so that killing is okay.

Now I understand that when you feel desperate, you'll take drastic measures. If I'm a starving Muslim extremist with no food in my belly, Allah in my veins, and Christians on my holy soil I'm pretty much realizing that in my lifetime, nothing's going to go all that great. Suicide for the greater good sounds pretty reasonable, because chances are, going toe-to-toe with the world's premier superpower will kill you anyway. May as well get the jump on them.

I can understand why bin Laden is upset. The reason he's upset is the same reason I am: our gov't has its hands in too many places for all the wrong reasons. Sure, all the soldiers are there trying to do their jobs as best they can, and they think they're doing some good, but most of them don't realize how badly they're being used. That's the saddest part, I think.

Now, my question is - if the US pulled every single soldier out of every single Muslim-heavy land, would the suicide attacks stop? Would America no longer be on the al-Qaeda radar? Would another 9-11 become an impossibility?

If the answer is yes (as I suspect it would be), then everyone's happy: the people of the Middle East can decide how to deal with their own problems without the West rolling the dice for them, and America could have a chance to getting back to non-interventionist roots.

But, if the answer is no, fry the bastard extremists. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

As an atheist, I have no inclination towards death any time soon because I know just how permanent nonexistence will be. I have no illusions of an afterlife good or bad. So I sure as hell am not ready to die for some other fool's irrational beliefs.

I don't care what god you pray to, but leave me out of your insanity in peace. I think all of us, regardless of our age or nationality can agree with that, yes?

[Samildanach]

Targeting civilians as you put it is one of the most effective methods to terrorise the enemy. If no one feels safe within a country then people start asking why not and when it comes down to it they turn to the person whos supposedly in charge and start saying do something. Meanwhile more civilians keep getting blown up and it shows that the people who are ment to be in power are really quite impotent because they cannot stop what is happening which eventually incites the people themselves to revolt. If I was setting war policy targeting of civilians is perfectly acceptable as a tactic cowardly as it may be. In war the object is to win not to worry about how that winning comes about. when you are a soldier you will lie, cheat, backstab and blindside to get any advantage. I would call suicide bombers on your side quite an advantage.

[french_jew]

Patc
The point is as long as Israeli soldiers keep killing Palestinians and Palestinian suicide bombers keep killing Israeli civilians without stopping for a minute and taking a look around and see what is happening, nothing will be gained by either side and the cycle continues
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Israel's trying to protect its people....it's got none other way to do it if it doesn't make the dirty job that the PLO doesn't want to.
This job is simple : eliminate terrorists and thwart their plan !

The Israeli army does not kill "palestinians" just to enjoy !!!!
Israel does not organize a party each time its Army kills one innocent... can say that concerning the Palestinians ???
It's not fair to put on the same level a suicide bombing that kills intentionally and indistincly, and Israel's retaliations and incursions for making that fucking dirty job !

Nathan

[Plaything48]

The reason you defend Israel is because you feel obliged to due to your faith, but try and look at things from others perspective

[PatC]

Israel has the right to protect its citizens, but they walk a fine line of protecting their citizens when their jets drop a bomb on a hamas safehouse and take out the whole block. They may have stopped future attacks from those individuals but hamas, islamic jihad, hizbollah, or who ever will use those innocent deaths as propaganda and there will be more muslims lining up to take the place of those who were killed. When Israel protects its self they must be very careful because inocent palestinian deaths are sure to result in inocent israli deaths

[Paavo]

I try to not get into the whole mess with Israel and Palestine, but;

I've been thinking about it a bit, and I'm sure that the Palestinians that target civilians, see the civilians more or less as combatatants. Why? Because they're living there, perfectly well knowing that land doesn't belong to them. When they move to the places that Israel has taken over, they take the knowing risk of being targeted. The Palestinians know that, and see the whole Israeli population living in these areas as invaders, not as peaceful, neutral-in-hearts civilians.

Also, I have yet to hear one reason why Israelis are allowed to cover land where they are. Israel goes against loads of UN rules by doing so, and the only *real* reason they're allowed to do so, is because it's backed by the US. The US tax payer's paying for that invasion. Shouldn't there be more active thinking within the US population about this issue?

[PatC]

There should be more active thinking, The U.S. uses Israel as an ally because every other nation in the region hates the U.S. The U.S. played a central role in establishing the state of Israel in 1948, yet the reasons why American presidents continually insist on aiding Israel escapes me. (Show about the Iraeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty during the 6 day war has just came on the history channel, how ironic) Anyways, most muslim nations, al quada, etc...., see America as an ally of Israel (which they are) yet simultaniouly the U.S. is trying to win over the hearts and minds cof the muslim world ot defeat al quada. What sense does it make to ally yourself with your enemy's enemy.

The other problem is that the U.N. needs to reform and should be given more power, or assume the responsability to take on more power. The U.N. failed to stop genocides in Rwanda and in the Balkans, enforce sanctions in Iraq.

[french_jew]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PatC,)
The other problem is that the U.N. needs to reform and should be given more power, or assume the responsability to take on more power. The U.N. failed to stop genocides in Rwanda and in the Balkans, enforce sanctions in Iraq.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

The United Nations is an organisation mostly composed by dictotorships.... and you wanna give them more power ????

More power for what ?

Does the UN act to defend freedom all over the world ? No, it does not !
Does the UN act to prevent terrorism ? No, it does not because a large part of its members finances terror or just back it. According to you, why the UN did not act for Saddam's Iraq ?
Do you know the elected country that heads the UN Commission of Human Rights ???

LIBYA !!!!
A great example of UN's deep willingness to protect and spread the Human Rights.

And you want to give more responsability to that fucking band of dictators ?!!!

Nathan

[Paavo]

French_jew, take it a bit more easy or you'll give yourself a stroke!
PatC talked about reforming the UN, as it's the closest thing of a body to ensure peace and justice as far as the western world is concerned. True, right now they do appear very toothless and incompetent. Thus, they need to reform. The basis for a functional system is there, though.

[PatC]

The UN is composed of 191 nations, i doubt all are ruled by dictators. And did you know the ELECTED country to the UN's human rights commission is not Lybia, they have been replaced by Cuba, Saudia Arabia, and the other 51 nations that make up the human rights commission. The UN did not act for Saddam's Iraq because they were mislead, decieved, or just forcibly prevented from entering the presidential palaces that they were supposed to be inspecting. As for preventeing terrorism, it goes back to Rwanda and the Balkans when the UN failed to take charged, Who was responsible for that? Serbs and Hutus.

[french_jew]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PatC,)
The UN is composed of 191 nations, i doubt all are ruled by dictators.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

A huge part of the UN is composed by dictatorships...that's why it has no credibility and no willingness to act in order of spreading democracy and the Human Rights.
191 nations ?
I think the democracies represent less than a third.

China will never be worried by the UN about its crimes.
Nor will Saudi Arabia for instance.

Nathan

[PeterAngelo]

The United Nations is an organized crime gang.

We are the CAPO de CAPO of all gangs.

It is unfortunate, but in a world of humans, violence will escalate and hi-tech hell will be the norm for billions.

I am regretfully happy that the entire police force of the United States protects me in my beachfront condo from 5,700,000,000 poor people who live to be exploited to feed my army.

Thank you - and please pick up your litter.

[french_jew]

The problem is not America, but dictatorships... and they use the UN to find a legitimacy for poor minds like you.

But they are not legitimate... almost any action to topple a dictator is fair and must be backed !

Saddam's regime killed more people during his reign than the two Iraq WAR.

Those dictators - whome the country is a UN member - finance, help or back terrorism against innocent civilians in our democracies...

Are the Great United Nations doing anything to deal with this ????
Of course NO ! The UN is composed by those same fucking States !

In 2 years :
- US/UK-led coalition topple Saddam
- It got him, and he's now in jail.
- Libya gave up its nuclear ambition.
- Syria is afraid.
- Iran must face a wave of contestation.

And much more I've forgotten.

Could the UN have made all of that ?
No, because most of UN members are dictatorships who shield each others...

Nathan

[PatC]

My whole point is that the UN must be reformed so it will have the power to fight terrorism, improve human rights, and spread democracy. If the UN was effective it would be a legitimate power that could take action against violating nations

[french_jew]

PatC : Who will decide "to fight terrorism, improve human rights, and spread democracy" ???

The UN members...
But if most of UN members are dictatorships, that they shield each other...

How could the UN be useful to handle post 11/9 issues ???

Nathan

[PatC]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (french_jew,)

How could the UN be useful to handle post 11/9 issues ???
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

The UN is not useful. It gets little accomplished and cant act against rouge states. That is why it must be reformed so it is useful after 9/11.