More American Arrogance and Hypocrisy

[bullshitdetector]

Quote by: Zeebadee "Substanceless?? I gave you a link to the reports! How would you characterize our actions in this case?" This incident can only increase the perception that Americans are hypocrites.

Ok, Patrick, tell me again he is simply implying the administration alone and not Americans as a whole, as one with it's administration.

[Anniee]

The addition of the word "all" wouldn't change the meaning of that statement very much at all. Clearly it was an inflammatory and baiting title by a US resident who clearly loathes his country or wants to front that he does. If we express enough self-loathing maybe the big bad terrorists won't come get us, isn't that the idea? Frankly if "we" do it much more often I would rather they did put an end to the snivelling mass of shitsuckers we've become. A people who talk like that about themselves don't deserve the world's respect.

[PatrickHenry]

I don't see Zee as an opponent, but I think you do, BSD. My understanding of his use of the term "our actions" is in reference to what the State Department or the Pentagon did in response to a traffic fatality in a foreign nation in which a US government employee was implicated. The foreign citizen was a celebrity, at least in the region. Imagine if a Rumanian military driver ran over and killed say, Tom Petty in NYC. The police on the scene breathalyze and find evidence of DUI. How does America take it if Rumania removes the driver to another nation? Would there be any howls for justice? Now imagine the power relationships are also reversed, and that the Rumanians are the sole military superpower.(hard to imagine) Now how does it feel, and what do Americans and our friends in the world think of the situation? Do you see how this can make our nation look bad?

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Imagine if a Rumanian military driver ran over and killed say, Tom Petty in NYC. The police on the scene breathalyze and find evidence of DUI. How does America take it if Rumania removes the driver to another nation? Would there be any howls for justice? Now imagine the power relationships are also reversed, and that the Rumanians are the sole military superpower.(hard to imagine) Now how does it feel, and what do Americans and our friends in the world think of the situation? Do you see how this can make our nation look bad?

I don't think it's any secret that the US has an advantage in most of its treaties with other nations. But just because the Marine was removed from the country doesn't mean he's not going to be punished. I couldn't care less *where* the wrongdoer gets punished as long as he *gets* punished.

[rmnunez]

I liked PH's analogy, it works well, suggests the sort of abusive arrogance and hypocrisy so frequently atributed if not to gringoes generally, certainly to their government, particularly under Bush.

Whether "American" means of their government or its people is a thorny problem. The US has a representative system of government where elected leaders are said to reflect the popular will. If Americans in general were concerned over the arrogance and hypocrisy their government's foreign policy exudes, they would cause this to change at the ballot box, continued practice indicates endorsement or lack of concern by the majority.

[castille]

I do agree the majority of Americans (from my experience, 70% or more) are extremely arrogant when overseas. I recall when an American had a screaming match at a local restaurant because he was charged an extra 30 cents for a block of butter, and he stormed out after spitting out several dozen racial slurs at the Indian owners.

Very surprising, Germans tend to be the most polite tourists abroad, and French are some of the worst.

[bullshitdetector]

I think it might be fair to say that most Americans who can afford to be abroad are arrogant, 70% of them might be arrogant by nature and are probably that way to a servant in an eatery right here in the states. Money has a way of turning people into assholes. That means Kerry and Bush people, people are people.

[kharmajunkie]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid Making generalizations against all americans as arrogant and hypocritical is a bit much to ask people to be open minded to.

The title leads me to think Zee's embarrassed by some Americans arrogance and hypocrisy; he didn't say all Americans are arrogant (you implied he said it). I agree with him. If you care about your country, you acknowledge it's foibles and look for solutions; not ignore them. You and Annie accuse him of flaming but it was you two that questioned whether he was a self loathing American or
not.

[Nono]

Quote by: castille Germans tend to be the most polite tourists abroad, and French are some of the worst.

Your source, castille?

Quote by: BSD I think it might be fair to say that most Americans who can afford to be abroad are arrogant, 70% of them might be arrogant by nature and are probably that way to a servant in an eatery right here in the states.

It's certainly true that things mostly come down to personal character. But beyond individual personality is the widespread ingrained certainty of their coutry's superiority over all others (many honourable exceptions to this rule, I hasten to add). This certainty on its own isn't enough to make you an asshole in a restaurant, of course. You have to be an asshole for that. But let's say it can be a factor in marginal situations.

[tusaki]

Quote by: Nono Your source, castille?

hahahaha

on a more serious note, the bbc has covered this a while ago...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2137729.stm

About this survey: http://www.expedia.co.uk/daily/press...%20Tourist.doc

• Overall, Germans have been voted the world’s best tourists, followed by Americans and Japanese. Brits scored worst of any country mentioned, followed by Israelis and Irish. • Germans are the best behaved, beating the respectful Japanese and the Spanish. The worst behaviour can be expected from the British, Irish and Danes. • ‘Have a nice day’ Americans are the most polite, out-charming Germans and Japanese. Britons are judged to be the rudest, followed by Russians and the usually placid Canadians. • Germans rank highest for attempting to speak the local language, followed by the French and rather surprisingly, Americans. The British make the least effort, preferring to simply talk louder in English. Russians and the Spanish are similarly mono-lingual. • Italians are most likely to try the local delicacies, followed by the Spanish and Germans. Brits, Indians and fast-food loving Americans are the least gastronomically adventurous. • Americans have the local restaurateurs, taxi drivers and souvenir shop owners ringing their hands as they spend and tip the most. The Japanese and Russians have the next deepest pockets. Germans are deemed to be the meanest, more so than Brits and New Zealanders

and the talkback here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/2138252.stm

Of course, this is highly subjective, and no objective criteria exist. But still, amusing to read.

[Nono]

Quote by: BBC ... the British, Irish and Danish the worst.

This doubtless has a lot to do with alcohol.

Americans are the most polite, out-charming Germans and Japanese. Britons are judged to be the rudest, followed by Russians and the usually placid Canadians.

Well I'll be damned. The Canadians, I mean. I wonder why that is.

Germans rank highest for attempting to speak the local language, followed by the French and rather surprisingly, Americans.

I find it difficult to believe the bit about the French and Americans making an effort. It doesn't accord with my experience.

That said, what possibly helps Americans in this respect is that they're generally uninhibited about talking loud in public places, and if that includes massacring a language, they're still uninhibited. But where do they all come from? North Americans are notorious for not learning other languages.

[castille]

My source is simply personal experience, as I CLEARLY stated. I know you guys are obssessed with statistics, but I don't trust surveys as sources because:

1) The question is often loaded. Give me a topic, give me a pre-determined result, and I'll rig the question to get that result without any fuss.

2) The people being surveyed are not the "average" tourists, unless they harrass people coming off the aircraft for info. In fact, for most extended surveys, the subjects are often within one particular subgroup. For example, alcohol-related surveys often find low-level and high-level drinkers, but rarely mid-level drinkers (source: Xi'An University 2001 medical faculty survey, paper 24 found in lab 44 spec).

[Nono]

catille, you're right that these questions are often loaded. But they didn't ask the tourists, they asked the people whose job is to deal with them. If you're accustomed to being vomited on by aggressively drunken Brits, you're unlikely to vote them most polite, no matter how loaded the question.

[RickSp]

Quote by: bullshitdetector I think it might be fair to say that most Americans who can afford to be abroad are arrogant, 70% of them might be arrogant by nature and are probably that way to a servant in an eatery right here in the states. Money has a way of turning people into assholes. That means Kerry and Bush people, people are people.

Congratulations on your obviously abundant affluence. In which country are you based?

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: RickSp Congratulations on your obviously abundant affluence. In which country are you based?

Congratulations on your obviously abundant affluence. Why don't quit the passive aggressive insults and ad hominem and tell us what he said that has your panties jammed in your ass.

[rmnunez]

It doesn't take a lot of money for gringoes to feel affluent in the 3rd world.

[giuliano]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman US Marines serving in a foreign country hold a different status then the state department agents they work with...That doesn't mean they don't get punished - they just get punished by a military court-martial rather than a court of the host country.

there's a major component of justice missing here... does anyone want to take a guess what it is?

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: rmnunez It doesn't take a lot of money for gringoes to feel affluent in the 3rd world.

It takes a lot more than the average middle class income to bother traveling to the 3rd world. Feeling affluent and being affluent isn't a state of mind but a state of reality. Money changes people, its true. Whatever way the affluent acts in their own back yard they will act the same abroad, the same applies to the "average gringoe".

[rmnunez]

Its relative, if you can buy lunch and drinks for 5 with $20 you will spring for the tab easily, even if you are just average middle class. You will feel affluent because your $20 makes you seem so among people for whom this is much more than they make on the average day.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman I don't think it's any secret that the US has an advantage in most of its treaties with other nations. But just because the Marine was removed from the country doesn't mean he's not going to be punished. I couldn't care less *where* the wrongdoer gets punished as long as he *gets* punished.

Yeah, sure he'll be punished. Why, just the other day Staff Sgt. Johnny Horne was sentenced to 3 years in jail for murdering a wounded, unarmed Iraqi kid. This Marine will probably get the book thrown at him, like a suspended bust, or maybe even some tough probation. I'm sure the dead man's friends and relatives will be satisfied knowing that Justice has been served.