In Mosul

[Dieval]

Originally posted by Article, Iraqi official: 1,000 rebels killed in Falluja

Sounds like quite an accomplishment for me....that's 1000 less people that will be hindering Iraq's freedom.

[bishop]

is that the best you can say? you don't think that those 1,000 couldn't be easily replaced?

[Dieval]

Originally posted by bishop, is that the best you can say? you don't think that those 1,000 couldn't be easily replaced?

Defeatism at it's best.

[bishop]

no.. it's the simple, unfortunate, reality that you can't fathom what the long-term implications of actions like this are. easy to cheer that we've killed some 1,000 insurgents, but you'll refuse to talk about how the public will view our actions.. these people believe in what they're fighting for, and they aren't afraid of getting killed.. 1,000, 3,000, 5,000.... it doesn't make a difference. our people thought that if we killed enough vietamese that they's simply give up... suprise surprise, they didn't..

it isn't defeatism.. people have thought that if you kill them, they'll stop fighting.. that didn't happen in afghanistan with the russians, didn't happen in vietnam, didn't happen in palestine, and countless other places....

simplicity/ignorance must be bliss... there is a bigger picture to this mess that you can't see with your short-sightedness. 1,000 have been killed, yet fighting has erupted in other parts of iraq. . and, despite what we say, we haven't conquered falluja - reports have said that one day we'll secure an area only for the insurgents to reoccupy it the very next day. some 200,000 people will soon return to the area - people who will likely hate us even more than they did before.

[Dieval]

defeatist defeatist defeatist.....I'm just glad you're not in charge of our military...we wouldn't have a country left.

[bishop]

can't debate, so you'll act like a kid and call people names. you're a lightweight man.. makes me wonder if you've gone further than a high school education...

[Dieval]

Debate what? That your generalized opinion of the whole town is that they'll hate us for removing the terrorists/insurgents..what kind of logic is that? Remove a threat to the people and they'll hate us?
I'm going back to my original plan of being done with your posts...

[bishop]

you must not have seen the questions i asked you on the previous page... :rolleyes:


remember several months ago when iraqis were parading around in the streets - playing with dead/mangled u.s. soldiers and stringing them up to bridges so they could play some pinata with them? guess what professor, that was in fallujah!

some pictures of how much the people of fallujah liked us a couple months ago..

http://www.irak.be/ned/nieuws/Fallujah.htm

a video of us dropping bombs on random people.. no care taken to identify them as being insurgents or civilians.. i'm sure you'll enjoy this one, being someone who celebrates whenever we kill people.

http://globalresearch.ca/images/Massacre%2...20Civilians.wmv

don't think it's legit? it was on cnn... http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/041.../11/asb.01.html

"All Iraqi civilians are protected by the Geneva Conventions," said Joe Stork, acting executive director of the Middle East and North Africa division. "It doesn't matter whether they sympathize with the U.S. occupation, or with the insurgents."


want to hear what some iraqis have to say?

http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/dem...p&start=11:48.7


so, maybe now you have your head out of your rear and you can answer the questions:

has this mission stopped the insurrectionists? has it stabilized iraq? has it won over the hearts and minds of iraqis?

[Dieval]

So I'm supposed to buy into your democracynow.org and other anti-American links? - "I'm interviewing this Iraqi citizen who friend was killed by American troops, and now he hates America ".....It's a war..people die. It's not a perfect solution.

Had we leveled Fulluja when this happened, we could have avoided quite a bit of misery -

& this


You've all but declared Fulluja a failure when the whole operation isn't even complete....should I spell it out for you again -
You are a D E F E A T I S T and not helping anything.

[bishop]

heh.. pathetic... a name calling fool, yet you still refuse to respond to the questions. this is a discussion board in case you didn't know.

see all the iraqis in your pics? THEY'RE CELEBRATING!

[Dieval]

Originally posted by bishop, heh.. pathetic... a name calling fool, yet you still refuse to respond to the questions. this is a discussion board in case you didn't know. see all the iraqis in your pics? THEY'RE CELEBRATING!

You're the one that called me a fool - talk about name calling......I said you have a defeatist attitude.

Yes, I see the Iraqi's in the pictures....they are called Insurgents/terrorists....how many of them are dead now? Hopefully all of them and no American's or Iraqi's will have that happen to them again.

[bishop]

funny... some of the fallujahns i've seen in other pictures (like the ones i linked) are kids.. i guess you hope they're dead too, eh?

how about i ask this for the third/fourth time?

has this mission stopped the insurrectionists? has it stabilized iraq? has it won over the hearts and minds of iraqis?

you see, the answer to that it the true key to success in iraq. it's much more important than reciting hte number of insurgents we've supposedly killed. win over the heats and minds of the public, and we've succeeded in our mission. permanently quash the insurrection and we've succeeded (as far as stabilization is concerned). fail, and the occupation will continue to look just like the situation in israel.

so... do you have the brainpower to answer the question?

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by Dieval, Yes, I see the Iraqi's in the pictures....they are called Insurgents/terrorists....how many of them are dead now? Hopefully all of them and no American's or Iraqi's will have that happen to them again.

Many may have been celebrating the demise of their occupiers, while having done nothing to cause the deaths.

And guess what? The Iraqis and Americans are still killing each other. See, it started when GW Bush sent an army to invade a nation that wasn't threatening the US. That's where it all started. All that's needed to end this is a simple, "Sorry, Wrong war. We're going home..."

[bishop]

PH... i did some reading on fallujah during desert storm... seems that we hit that area pretty hard back then. also, the people there have years of history of resisting occupiers.. they resisted the british, they even resisted saddam to a degree.... now they're resisting us.

[PatrickHenry]

I don't want to see American soldiers killed. Or "private contractors" (mercenaries) either. I don't gloat over pictures of dead folks, no matter their nationality. I just want the US' finger out of the pie.

A small apology would probably be appropriate, too. :(

[bishop]

ditto that..

too bad we're in it for the long-haul - for the oil.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by bishop,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bishop,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>has this mission stopped the insurrectionists?[/b]

This mission isn't over, but there are atleast 1k+ insurgents/terrorists that won't be causing any more problems.....or shall I look into my crystal ball and predict the future, like you seem to be able to do?

Originally posted by bishop,@ has it stabilized iraq?

See the first part of the above response.
<!--QuoteBegin-bishop,
has it won over the hearts and minds of iraqis?[/quote]
See the first part of the above response.

[PatrickHenry]

1000 dead people...Dieval, are you confident that all were terrorists?

Many Iraqi nationalists regard 1100 dead US troopers in the same terms. How sad.

[Zeebadee]

Originally posted by bishop, ditto that.. too bad we're in it for the long-haul - for the oil.

I don't think we are in for the long haul. I think Bush will use the January elections, no matter who wins, as an excuse to declare victory and pull our people out. Even he must realize by now that there simply is no way that the average citizen will ever make us welcome in Iraq. The Bush supporters even then won't recognize how they got screwed by their "leader", and will moan, whine, and bitch for years to come about how we "could have won" in Iraq if only the military had been turned loose to kill everyone opposed to us.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, 1000 dead people...Dieval, are you confident that all were terrorists?

I'm quite confident that that most, if not all, were.