Was the 2004 Election Stolen?

[PatrickHenry]

I am curious as to the members viewpoint on this important issue.

If fraud is apparent but overlooked by the media, what does that say about our future?

I voted for Kerry just because I hoped to see Bush relieved of command. I would likely not have been happy with a Kerry Presidency, but am even more alarmed by the prospect that vote rigging is now "just the way things are" and the media as a whole just ignores the whole issue...

[Scribbler1]

I have no problem believing the possibility of election fraud, but is it REALLY all that apparent to all that many people, outside of forums like this, I mean?
I think if there is a large enough groundswell of public suspicion the media will HAVE to report it. I just don't know how widespread it is.

[Suburbanite]

I honestly don't even doubt that there is and has been massive amounts of election fraud in the United States for at the very least the past three presidents.

The democrats could not manage to steal this election. That doesn't mean they didn't try. The fact is that democrats are guilty of much more voter fraud than republicans. Florida for example traditionally has democrats registered in both New York and Florida, so they get two votes each. There is a recent book on this very topic.

[Dieval]

If one option said - "There may have been some "irregularites" but nothing that constitutes wholesale election fraud." - I would have picked that...

[PatrickHenry]

"May have been," Dieval? I was just asking from what you have read...
If you have read of irregularities, and the reports seem credible TO YOU, then you could vote for choice 1. If you haven't read of anything or the news you have read doesn't seem credible, then it's 3...

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by Snouter, The democrats could not manage to steal this election. That doesn't mean they didn't try. The fact is that democrats are guilty of much more voter fraud than republicans. Florida for example traditionally has democrats registered in both New York and Florida, so they get two votes each. There is a recent book on this very topic.

Evidence for your assertions, Snouter? This is debate, not opinion unless you state it so...

[PatrickHenry]

This is for those who haven't made up their minds yet:
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html
Bush's 'Incredible' Vote Tallies

By Sam Parry
November 9, 2004

George W. Bush’s vote tallies, especially in the key state of Florida, are so statistically stunning that they border on the unbelievable. While it’s extraordinary for a candidate to get a vote total that exceeds his party’s registration in any voting jurisdiction – because of non-voters – Bush racked up more votes than registered Republicans in 47 out of 67 counties in Florida. In 15 of those counties, his vote total more than doubled the number of registered Republicans and in four counties, Bush more than tripled the number. Statewide, Bush earned about 20,000 more votes than registered Republicans. By comparison, in 2000, Bush’s Florida total represented about 85 percent of the total number of registered Republicans, about 2.9 million votes compared with 3.4 million registered Republicans. Bush achieved these totals although exit polls showed him winning only about 14 percent of the Democratic vote statewide – statistically the same as in 2000 when he won 13 percent of the Democratic vote – and losing Florida’s independent voters to Kerry by a 57 percent to 41 percent margin. In 2000, Gore won the independent vote by a much narrower margin of 47 to 46 percent. <snip> While it's conceivable Bush might have achieved these and other gains through his hardball campaign strategies and strong get-out-the-vote effort, many Americans, looking at these and other statistically incredible Bush vote counts, are likely to continue to suspect that the Republicans put a thumb on the electoral scales, somehow exaggerating Bush's tallies through manipulation of computer tabulations. Only an open-minded investigation with public scrutiny would have much hope of quelling these rising suspicions.

[Nono]

Originally posted by Snouter ... democrats are guilty of much more voter fraud than republicans ...

Pure wishful thinking there, S. Who's in a position to commit fraud? Those in charge of running the election, i.e. the state governments. And who runs the state government where the result is as clear as mud?

Florida is once again emitting suspicious odours. As in 2000, It's like a caricature of some banana republic: well the pres was put over the top in a state run by his brother...

[bishop]

i chose the last option. the fact that there were no big problems with the electronic machines troubles me. i don't have faith in those systems - that have been repeatedly shown to be innacurate.

also, there were all sorts of written ballots cast at the last moment - often because voting lines were so long and people cast them rather than deciding to wait for hours on end. i'm worried that they may have been tampered with.

[ericsp23]

I chose option 4. I think that something fishy went on in the battleground states, but the accusation of voter fraud on that wide of a scale is not something that should be made lightly because of its implications. I need more evidence before I could say for sure.
There was clearly an effort by the Republicans to suppress voter turnout in heavily Democratic precincts, which I think is inexcusable. This, and the fact that all of the problems that have been reported in the media with the electronic voting machines seem to favor Bush makes me think that fraud may have occurred. I definitely think this needs to be looked into, and the fact that the mainstream media has not picked up the story is very disturbing.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, "May have been," Dieval? I was just asking from what you have read... If you have read of irregularities, and the reports seem credible TO YOU, then you could vote for choice 1. If you haven't read of anything or the news you have read doesn't seem credible, then it's 3...

From what I've read, I believe it's wishful thinking of the extreme Dems that there was wide-spread fraud....I believe there may have been some issues, but nothing major.

[Milton Bradley]

As time goes by, I'm sure my selection of option two will prove true.

[Dieval]

I'm sure dwelling on a lost election will prove #2 right....makes perfect sense to me... :rolleyes:

[Suburbanite]

I wonder if in the history books they will call this period in America: American Delusionalism.

[Section 8]

Currently I'm holding out to make a descision. Although there are many suspiscions, in most of these articles, such as the one PH posted, they only imply voter fraud, and although these are troubling, I refuse to make up my mind without all the facts, running on implications isn't enough, and neither is wishful thinking.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, Was the 2004 Election Stolen?

The first 2 issues may have some points, but #3 seems to be closer to reality.

[PatrickHenry]

I found this: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/111104A.shtml

Could Ohio still change its vote? Yes, it could, but don't bet on it.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Every American has been disenfranchised. Even though my state, California, elected Kerry with 55 electoral votes, he is not our president because felony election fraud on the other coast.
This is a gross felony of global proportions.

If we dont demand that these election machines be scrapped and prosecute the manufacturers. Prosecute the perpetrators both on the government level and election boards, We deserve Authoritarian rule. If we dont stand up en masse and DEMAND these crimes be punished we dont deserve any of the other rights that this right gives us. The choice of who will represent us. The choice that empowers one man who can say "America has spoken, Give us your oil or die in your streets".

If we are silent on this, How many millions will die at the teeth of Evil America?

America has spoken, we voted against terrorism, in our government.

[bullshitdetector]

Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-PatrickHenry, "May have been," Dieval? I was just asking from what you have read... If you have read of irregularities, and the reports seem credible TO YOU, then you could vote for choice 1. If you haven't read of anything or the news you have read doesn't seem credible, then it's 3...

From what I've read, I believe it's wishful thinking of the extreme Dems that there was wide-spread fraud....I believe there may have been some issues, but nothing major.[/b][/quote]


They need someone to blame it on, it can't be possible that their man was not up to snuff and Bush kicked his ass. Oh, of course not!