Was the 2004 Election Stolen?

[Texans 4 Furors]

Originally posted by Rainbow,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rainbow,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-PatrickHenry, You Republicans: Your candidate won this time. How will you handle a possible future election where the tables are turned and the opposition wins but the election is flawed? Will you not desire an accurate vote count then? If accuracy is not pursued now, how wiil future elections be honestly democratic?

I do not care a political party ideology, status, platform, ect. as long as it serves U.S.. What is the difference who rules, if that serves U.S. well ?
Should we care political parties' shades, or U.S. prosperity ?
What is more important : a political party or a state ?[/b][/quote]
I think you just proved his point.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, You Republicans: Your candidate won this time. How will you handle a possible future election where the tables are turned and the opposition wins but the election is flawed? Will you not desire an accurate vote count then? If accuracy is not pursued now, how wiil future elections be honestly democratic?

They will yell and scream about voter fraud just like I do. 2 questionable Bush victories and not one peep out of them. But if a Democrat wins next time, even by a WIDE margin they will go berserk in their defense of a pure and unsullied election system.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Voter fraud has not been proven so the point being made is moot.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by OberonDOtherseid, Voter fraud has not been proven so the point being made is moot.

If the Bush brigade has its way there will be no investigation at all, and then the point WILL be moot. However the point I made is not moot as it illustrates what will likely happen next election IF a Democrat wins.
The problem is that if there is no investigation THIS time and there is any shadow of a doubt in the next election the Republicans will have the same right to call foul as the Kerry supporters do now.
And on, and on, and on...

[OberonDOtherseid]

What will likely happen in your own opinion, why not wait until that day comes? I can turn and predict that if that day comes the Dems will turn the same blind eye you claim the repubs do. I am not turning a blind eye, and I am not closed minded, I am here aren't I? I just want proof, can anyone provide it?

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by OberonDOtherseid, What will likely happen in your own opinion, why not wait until that day comes? I can turn and predict that if that day comes the Dems will turn the same blind eye you claim the repubs do. I am not turning a blind eye, and I am not closed minded, I am here aren't I? I just want proof, can anyone provide it?

I don't have proof and I never claimed I had. I'm saying there have been ample reports around the country, by reputable news sources of voting "irregularities", enough so to warrant an investigation. I never said "throw em in jail" or any such thing. I want to know WHY there are so many reports of voting funny business, and THEN decide what to do. An actual, real and NON-partisan investiugation should provide us with the proof we need either way. But for anyone to suggest "don't worry, be happy" when there is possible fraud is ridiculous.
Your prediction of the Democrats (and it isn't all the Democrats insisting on an investigation either) turning a blind eye next time is EXACTLY why I demand an investigation. Nothing is fixed and nothing will stop.

Anyone who favors the status quo only because their guy won does not deserve to have the privelege of voting. There are too many reports of "irregularities" and too much at stake.

[bullshitdetector]

That is a common misconception, just because someone voted for Bush and has doubts about election fraud does not necessarily mean they are favoring the status quo because their guy won, Scribbler. I myself have said I would be open to the facts, if there is a problem then lets have it investigated and see the outcome and take care of it when and if that time comes. You have not stated it is a fact, but others have, a fact it is not until PROVEN otherwise.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by bullshitdetector, That is a common misconception, just because someone voted for Bush and has doubts about election fraud does not necessarily mean they are favoring the status quo because their guy won, Scribbler. I myself have said I would be open to the facts, if there is a problem then lets have it investigated and see the outcome and take care of it when and if that time comes. You have not stated it is a fact, but others have, a fact it is not until PROVEN otherwise.

That line says "anyone who..." and does not mean everyone. But it's easy to spot the most vocal proponents of "leave it alone". Around here, you'll notice the people who are most vocal in putting down the idea of an investigation are the most ardent Bush supporters. I don't feel this is coincidental.

And you are right in that some people feel fraud is a fact. But that should not form the basis for ignoring it because a lot of other people just want to know because it looks like there COULD be fraud.

It should be obvious to any American that we must always guard against those who covet the power of government and would act to subvert the process. To think these people only exist outside of government is idiotic and to blindly allow the status quo is unamerican.

diebold president said he would deliver ohio to gwb in 2004. they make electronic voting machines. many instances of suspected fraud have been noted in ohio, florida, and other states. this is illegal, and must be investigated before inauguration.

[Scribbler1]

Bob, before any of the Bush disciples home in on that comment, do you have a link or anything?
I seem to recall this but not where it came from. Probably an old post on a diff thread.

[OberonDOtherseid]

You know what Scribbler, the whole Bush disciple act is boring, why not lose it?

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by OberonDOtherseid, You know what Scribbler, the whole Bush disciple act is boring, why not lose it?

If there is a word in the English language that makes my point and doesn't violate the etiquette I will use it and any other word I choose.

If you find it boring, stop reading my posts.

[PatrickHenry]

The GAO has responded to complaints about the election's fairness.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/23/....investigation/

The U.S. Government Accountability Office plans to investigate complaints of several systemic problems with this month's elections, a group of Democratic lawmakers said Tuesday. The investigation comes in response to two letters written by lawmakers to the GAO which address numerous media reports of irregularities in the 2004 vote and call for those to be reviewed. The GAO said it will not investigate every charge listed by the Democrats, but will examine "the security and accuracy of voting technologies, distribution and allocation of voting machines and counting of provisional ballots." A spokeswoman for one of the lawmakers requesting an investigation, Rep. John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, said the goal is not to overturn the election results, but rather to improve the mechanics of the voting process. "We are hopeful that GAO's nonpartisan and expert analysis will get to the bottom of the flaws uncovered in the 2004 election," said a statement released by Conyers and five other members of Congress. As part of the inquiry, the group said it will provide copies of specific incident reports received in their offices regarding the election, including more than 57,000 complaints provided to the House Judiciary Committee. Those reports include allegations of computer and voting machine problems that added votes to totals, as well as malfunctions that resulted in votes being thrown out. "We are literally receiving additional reports every minute," said a November 5 letter from lawmakers to the GAO. "The essence of democracy is the confidence of the electorate in the accuracy of voting methods and the fairness of voting procedures. "In 2000, that confidence suffered terribly, and we fear that such a blow to our democracy may have occurred in 2004." Requesting lawmakers in addition to Conyers were Reps. Jerrold Nadler, Louise Slaughter and Gregory Meeks of New York; Robert Wexler of Florida; Robert Scott of Virginia; Melvin Watt of North Carolina; Rush Holt of New Jersey; John Olver of Massachusetts; Bob Filner, George Miller and Barbara Lee of California; and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin.

[Osborn F Enready]

It is about time, now let's see how they handle it.... I can only hope the people WATCH this time, and make THE SYSTEM accountable.

[Osborn F Enready]

I highly doubt the "non-partisan" part of it, especially after the comment about "not investigate every charge listed by the Democrats", but I suppose some investigation is better than none right.....

And this (U.S. Government Accountability Office) is truly an oxymoron, judging on past years history. Where have they been for the last 71 years?


Just some of my curiousity.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by PH's Article, A spokeswoman for one of the lawmakers requesting an investigation, Rep. John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, said the goal is not to overturn the election results, but rather to improve the mechanics of the voting process.

This is absurd, there were plenty of red flags before the election, to warrant an investigation or a study. Now that it is obvious that the potential crime has become the crime a la mode, we need to use every available minute of the congress and the GAO to get the perpetraitors behind bars. Roll out the guillotine, dust it off, lube it and form a single file line past GWBushs oval office window. Every now and then an example must be made to those who would overthrow the USA.

The time to study the election process ended before November 2.

Now is the time to punish with the full force of American justice system, those who would screw all of us out of our Right to choose who would lead us.

[Osborn F Enready]

I would prefer this to an assasins bullet, but you can see how many would entertain such an idea should it not come to fruition his trial for treason, as well as many others. And before the Repubs say it, I am talking about Democrats TOO.

[gr8fuldaniel]

This is bullshit, its like, a Bank Robbing Syndicate calling the cops and telling them; "On Nov 2, we are going to be robbing a bunch of banks" and providing a list.

Everyone knew, and nobody did anything to stop it. Shameful.

Well we are going to organize a committee to determine if a study should undertake the possibility of determining if a staff should be hired to appoint a commission to facilitate the appropriate way to pursue an investigation if something actually happened or if a new office should be established........

[Scribbler1]

"A spokeswoman for one of the lawmakers requesting an investigation, Rep. John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, said the goal is not to overturn the election results, but rather to improve the mechanics of the voting process."

If you add, "and to ensure the integrity of the process" (my words) to that, it is what I have been yelling about for months around here. Not that I am some kind of genius but that it is SO obvious and SO necessary and all I hear from the Bush supporters is "conspiracy theory", tinfoil hats", "kool ade" and all this other garbage.

We had a king a long time ago. What makes people think there are not people who would LOVE to be the king once again?

[Osborn F Enready]

Scribbler said:We had a king a long time ago. What makes people think there are not people who would LOVE to be the king once again?

I say: Or even sicker still, there are not people who would willingly LOVE to cede their rights to a modern King, having no real knowledge of a Kings options or impact, merely on the premise of peace and security.