Was the 2004 Election Stolen?

[Osborn F Enready]

Alright... you've had a week now to recover from the dizzying events of election day 2004.

Now it's time to get serious again, fun is over... back to work people.




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quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In one voting precinct in Gahanna, Ohio, 4,258 voters supposedly cast an electronic ballot for George Bush while only 260 voted for John Kerry. While it is vaguely possible that over 94% of voters in the precinct supported George W. Bush, it is a hard number to believe considering that only 638 voters were counted at the polling center .
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http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_10500.shtml

please note the link to http://www.BlackBoxVoting.org contained in that article as well (perhaps you’ll want to help your fellow Americans get their votes counted).

What am I getting at? More important than GWB winning and Kerry loosing is this... did they win or loose based on OUR votes?!?!

I believe the overwhelming answer to that question is NO. If votes are not counted, if fraud is rampant... and the thing that diverts the public eye is a quick concession... how can any of us fully and faithfully feel that the people's will has been served? This government is out of our control, it no longer serves the will of the people, because it doesn't even poll the people. It is no longer accountable to US, because they have devised a way to elect themselves to govern us that is void of our consent to be governed by them.

The most widespread election day tactic (from both sides) was to deny people's right to vote. An election won not based on how many people you could get to vote for you... but instead on how many of your opponent’s votes you could get tossed out. Where a party wins by denying people the right to vote?!?! If a candidate promotes this type of election... how can he claim to have been "Democratically Elected"? Further, how can he morally claim to be a defender of democracy? Regardless of the outcome of the election… how can any of us be content with this UN-REPRESENTATIVE system?

Some independently compiled statistical data from Florida --> http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

in conjunction with BlackBox Voting and the National Ballot Integrity Project... http://helpamericarecount.org/index.html is here.

The Nader Campaign (http://www.votenader.com) is also involved in initiating recounts.

It's Audit time people.





Wake up and smell the corruption, the game is on!

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In one voting precinct in Gahanna, Ohio, 4,258 voters supposedly cast an electronic ballot for George Bush while only 260 voted for John Kerry. While it is vaguely possible that over 94% of voters in the precinct supported George W. Bush, it is a hard number to believe considering that only 638 voters were counted at the polling center . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wake up and smell the corruption, the game is on!

This is the next (following) paragraph

The Columbus Dispatch has investigated the matter and the director of the board of elections within the county admitted that Bush only received 365 votes. He stated that a "glitch" occurred in the electronic voting machine during the vote tally. This glitch could have given nearly 4,000 fake votes to George Bush if it had not discovered.

(As a matter of fact, we have already went through that information).

Even though, Bush 365, Kerry 260.

I believe that some people assume that ALL the voting stations accross U.S. were affected that or similar way. That is the reason people start calling for re-election ( ???) or fraud.

[bullshitdetector]

All this concern about our election process didnt become a big thing until Bush got in. Otherwise THEY were perfectly content with the election process as long as a democrat won.

[Osborn F Enready]

So rainbow, you are saying that EVEN THOUGH, there were numerous errors, possible fraud, (I say possible because they are still obtaining informatio from many locales) and one of the biggest divides in the nation on moral and political issues, you think it is ok to just blow this off as being OK, since he has already been declared the winner without all vote totals?

You think if there is fraud, the people responsible should be penalized?

What if both Bush and Kerry camps are guilty of Fraud?

Then what is the responsibility of THE PEOPLE, to the NATION?



You sound content because the network media is hyping the canidate you voted for, and fairness and the voice of the people are trivial. I am not content, nor will I rest while either major party is in office, promoting globalist anti-constitutional laws and practices.

Am I upset? No, I just want to know when I will be justified in the public eye to start the revolt against the corrupt powers that be... that's all.

LOL

[Osborn F Enready]

By the way mr bullshit, I am a voter for NEITHER major party, so dont generalize me, or my intentions, big mouth.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by bullshitdetector, All this concern about our election process didnt become a big thing until Bush got in. Otherwise THEY were perfectly content with the election process as long as a democrat won.

Who is THEY, bsd? And to my knowledge, Osborn and gr8ful are not supporters of the Democratic Party.

If you are to be faithful to your username, you must be aware of the process of switching real democracy with a fake. We'll see what you're made of on this board. I'm kinda skeptical of usernames like yours. I remember a former member (now banned) who called himself "Truth" but was full o' lies...

My suspicion is that you are a failure at detecting neoconservative bullshit...

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, So rainbow, you are saying that EVEN THOUGH, there were numerous errors, possible fraud, (I say possible because they are still obtaining informatio from many locales) and one of the biggest divides in the nation on moral and political issues, you think it is ok to just blow this off as being OK, since he has already been declared the winner without all vote totals? You think if there is fraud, the people responsible should be penalized? What if both Bush and Kerry camps are guilty of Fraud? Then what is the responsibility of THE PEOPLE, to the NATION? You sound content because the network media is hyping the canidate you voted for, and fairness and the voice of the people are trivial. I am not content, nor will I rest while either major party is in office, promoting globalist anti-constitutional laws and practices. Am I upset? No, I just want to know when I will be justified in the public eye to start the revolt against the corrupt powers that be... that's all. LOL

#1
Present the rational scenario as the solution, please.
Re-election, is that what you mean ?
#2
No clue.
The last turns off the light ? :-)))
#3
As I previously mentioned :
- I do not care political party's shades.
All I care is U.S. to prosper.
#4
Revolt, again ? :-)))
Guys, you need to take completely different approach, instead of what you are about.
Never forget : people's expectiations are the most important, regardless what political system (or its ideology) may represent.

P.S.
"The best" place to vote for politicians is : restroom :-)))

[Osborn F Enready]

LOL, well said Pat.

[Osborn F Enready]

Rainbow:

In order:
#1, the rational answer would be left to the people, since it is their choice to begin with. A re-election at the minimum, with hard copy voting and citizens observation groups at polling places.

#2, That doesn't suprise me that you have no clue.

#3, Having the U.S. prosper against its own ideology is a sure sentence to destruction from within. You may want to clarify that.

#4, Guy, I don't really care what you think about my approach or my avenues of choice and action. I don't remember asking you to join the revolt, did I? I try to make it a habit not to ask people who will work against my goal to join me in a fight for that goal, but thanks for you input.... pffft.

[Section 8]

I still don't see enough information for me to render a verdict. The problem with most conspiracy theories is that they point out gross irregularities, but fail to tie these by anything except assumption. With a matter as huge as this, I don't think that anything can be left up to assumption. However, I do agree that we need to do away with these electronic voting machines.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, Rainbow: In order: #1, the rational answer would be left to the people, since it is their choice to begin with. A re-election at the minimum, with hard copy voting and citizens observation groups at polling places. #2, That doesn't suprise me that you have no clue. #3, Having the U.S. prosper against its own ideology is a sure sentence to destruction from within. You may want to clarify that. #4, Guy, I don't really care what you think about my approach or my avenues of choice and action. I don't remember asking you to join the revolt, did I? I try to make it a habit not to ask people who will work against my goal to join me in a fight for that goal, but thanks for you input.... pffft.

#1
Wrong.
There is not enough technical support in tha matter. A state is not a computer game that a person may use "save" and "load" features.
We may prevent such events in the future, by intalling completely new equipement in order to avoid (or minimize) errors, along with modern voting system.

#2
You want to re-structure U.S. surface, in terms of politics, economy, finance, ect. Dreaming.
Philosophy, ideology, sociology, economy (which are bases for ANY system) along with political and social solutions for American people, that is what is needed.

Present some materials to support your views, guys.
(No populism, please).

#3
Progress in all the vital fields, like : economy, technology and science. Social issues depend of inner policy.

#4
I care less.
There was a thread (and I believe that thread is available somewhere out there, still) on other-than Democrat and Republican parties in U.S.
It concerned the alleged call for a revolt in U.S.
I read it. A complete nonsense (an absurdal data).

An example :
Prior and during Russian Revolution (Red October 1917), there were appx. 90% illiterals, in St. Petersburg and Moscow (and appx 99% in the other parts of Russia).
It was possible to materiliaze that revolution, especially dealing with morons. (Still, in 1936, Russia's educational system had 4 high schools desigend to its disposition, only).

Whom do you want to deal with - in order to seccessfuly accomplish your revolt ? Morons ? Half-illiterals ? Well-educated ?
Regardless of your choice : you need to provide people with acceptable solutions, which according to that thread (on revolt) you guys present not much - if any.

Yet another example :
"Solidarity". Polish all-out opposition (movement) against Communists in Poland. An extremely powerful form of labor union (even American AFL-CIO can not come close with its status to "Solidarity", not to mention to match it). "Solidarity" is an opposite example to Red October, while its members' illiteracy level was "0" to none of existance.

Give me the assurance, that a government under your reign of power is not going to be(come) corrupted ?
You have none.
You would need to re-create Homo Sappines, in order to comply (with it).
If "yes", then : how are you going to accomplish that task and for example re-create yourself ? :-)))

[bullshitdetector]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, By the way mr bullshit, I am a voter for NEITHER major party, so dont generalize me, or my intentions, big mouth.

Whats your problem? I said THEY, is that your name? If the shoe doesn't fit then don't wear it.

[PatrickHenry]

MSNBC did a video report:
MSNBC Vote Fraud Video (Must See) -- 11.11.04
http://www.truthout.org/multimedia.htm
There needs to be an investigation. If wrong doing is found there will be prosecution(I hope).

Three more Congressmen have joined the original three in asking the GAO to look into this...

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by bullshitdetector, All this concern about our election process didnt become a big thing until Bush got in.

And Lacy Peterson wasnt famous until Scott took her fishing on Christmas Eve.

[bullshitdetector]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-bullshitdetector, All this concern about our election process didnt become a big thing until Bush got in.

And Lacy Peterson wasnt famous until Scott took her fishing on Christmas Eve.[/b][/quote]

Straw man. non sequitor. irrelevance

[Technosoul]

Some groups are asking Kerry to flip flop on his stand that Bush won Ohio. I do not think he would do so without some very tangable and overwhelming evidence that fraud or uncounted votes would have really made a difference in his winning the election by popular vote in that state.

Having a big investigation based on a popular rumor is hardly worth the cost. I think that so many people were expecting some kind of Bush manipulated counting as a re-play of the Fla. happenings is what caused the doubts now being expressed. Sort of like when you read some astrology chart in the paper and really expect and look for those predictions to come true, sure enough will will find someway to feel the astrology chart was right. Expectations can and do generate a beleif but such a belief system tends to arrange perceptions in it's favor while remaining blind to other evidence.

But John Edwards was right and Kerry should have waited for every vote to be counted instead of trying to look through the fog to see what is beyond the fog. If we are going to have a voting system that is sometimes slower then we would like, we should learn to live with that fact and encourge more patience when it comes to knowing the outcome. Speed up the voting system count, or slow down and keep pace with it. Don't try to jump over logs if you cannot see clearly what is on the other side.

Whats the rush if the outcome is held in limbo? We don't need a Rush Limbo type of vote counting system just to avoid the pain of waiting for the answer.

But, hey! Kerry kicked the bucket and spilled the milk, no point crying about it now.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Originally posted by Technosoul, But, hey! Kerry kicked the bucket and spilled the milk, no point crying about it now.

Exactly, what more can you say if the man himself doesn't care enough to wait for the votes to be counted?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by bsd,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bsd,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> All this concern about our election process didnt become a big thing until Bush got in.[/b]

Originally posted by Me,@ And Lacy Peterson wasnt famous until Scott took her fishing on Christmas Eve.

<!--QuoteBegin-bullshitdetector,
Straw man. non sequitor. irrelevance[/quote]

Whoa, dont git your shorts bunched up. Its perfectly relevant. The elections werent famous until something horrible happened.
Same thing with Lacy, she wasnt famous until something horrible happened.
Makes sense to me.

All this "concern about our election process" wasnt a big deal until Bush campaign starting rigging the elections. He still hasnt been elected. He was chosen by SCJUSA in 2000. He tried to pull another fast one last week.

[OberonDOtherseid]

He was elected both times Gr8ful , and he's there to stay. Unlike the Peterson case where the obvious is just that, obvious, that case has closed and justice was served. The Bush administration is going to be there for the next 4 years and nothing is going to change that.

[Texans 4 Furors]

Impeachment? Oh wait, he hasn't cheated on Laura yet....or maybe he has! Condi Rice did refer to him as her husband in front of a bunch of journalists last year. Bush wasn't elected the first time, by the way. And the numbers are still out on this one but I would try to be realistic and guess that they simply repeated what they did in 2000. Either way you cut the butter, whether you are a liberal, conservative, neo con or neo liberal, Jeb can't hide from a felon list that is 90% incorrect forever (or maybe he can, since his brother is King). We'll see....