US Bombs Iraq Hospital...In Your Name

[Osborn F Enready]

BAh, the whole war is a farce playing on the fears (both real and imagined) of the American people.

This is just more evidence of America switching over to guerilla tactics and abandoning the geneva convention with conventional soldiers, instead of only the special forces.

If our own nation can't respect its constitution, how can we expect to sell the idea to other countries. Bush is just the new Saddam in town, unfortunately he is using our soldiers to do his bidding.

[OberonDOtherseid]

So Bush is murdering people on the streets? Raping any woman he might fancy on the street while her husband watches only to cut his throat when he is done? Wow, Bush is a pretty busy guy.

[Zeebadee]

Originally posted by Rainbow, Take it into your banks (once and for all) : - I support U.S. actions that bring profits to America. Factors like "who" is behind it, or political party's shades are meaningless.

Ok! Now we can talk. You've admitted that which the other Bush supporters continue to deny. I think that if Bush had based his war on this fact right from the start he would be much better off. So why all the phony charade about WMD's and UN Resolutions? Why not just admit that we are in it for the profit we expect to make? While economic motives may still draw a lot of criticism, at least they are something we can all understand and they are certainly real. We have, though, pumped hundreds of billions of dollars into this war, how long will it take for us to recoup that investment? What about the lives lost, what will be the return on that?

"It could be Bush, Kerry, Zorro, Superman X, Rambo 5000. "Inner policy" is yet another issue, and I may debate it, but never "outter policy" aspect, under any condition, unless Mao-alike actions may take place. "

I'm not sure what you mean by this though. Could you try and clarify it a little?

[Osborn F Enready]

Oberon, I was not debating the fact that Saddam was a tyrant or a madman, just classifying Georgie Porgie as the same.

What makes one confused, deluded, heartless, discriminatory madman better than another? Because you voted for this one?

[Haik]

Originally posted by OberonDOtherseid, So Bush is murdering people on the streets? Raping any woman he might fancy on the street while her husband watches only to cut his throat when he is done? Wow, Bush is a pretty busy guy.

No, in fact the bombs that they drop on civilians explode into flower fields and fairy dust and jelly beans. Saddam liked the ladies, Bush likes the oil....and me, I like the sauce.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Zeebadee, You've admitted that which the other Bush supporters continue to deny.  I think that if Bush had based his war on this fact right from the start he would be much better off.   So why all the phony charade about WMD's and UN Resolutions? Why not just admit that we are in it for the profit we expect to make? While economic motives may still draw a lot of criticism, at least they are something we can all understand and they are certainly real.  We have, though, pumped hundreds of billions of dollars into this war,  how long will it take for us to recoup that investment? What about the lives lost, what will be the return on that?

"I support U.S. actions that bring profits to America.
Factors like "who" is behind it, or political party's shades are meaningless.
It could be Bush, Kerry, Zorro, Superman X, Rambo 5000."

I am not much interested which political party represents U.S. President, as along as his decisions serve U.S.

In order to analyze the whole situation in Middle-East region we need to go back (but not too far). Then starting from late '80 is good enough. However, it would take some pages, what I do not think may be a good idea (thou I do not mind).

Here, it is an extremely short close up on it.
Generally, Saddam was a part of that whole "enterprise".
One needs to remember, that people demanded a payback for WTC's destruction. While going after Osama (and alike) was the obvious decision, then Iraq was a little aside of it.

It was not that phoney with WMD, because U.S. government really was not so sure about Iraq's nuclear capabilities, especially while U.S. intelligence in that region was almost in a state of non-existance.
Additionally, Bush wanted to pay Saddam back, for Saddam's alleged assassination plot on Bush's father (former U.S. President). Adding to it Saddam's activity with notoriously breaking U.N. Resolutions, brought that whole "package" into 1 point : remove Saddam as the obstacle, in order to "materilize" the plan.

I do not know the date it came to some guys senses, that by converting Iraq to pro-democratic state U.S. may solve its energy-related problems, while Saudi Arabia was a real "pain-in-ass".
Then, getting a gas from Caspian Sea (through Afghanistan) and oil from Iraq would solve many vital U.S.'s policy and economy related aspects.

Why not to tell all that to people ?
I do not think that people would take it in. If I am in charge :-))))) I would say that to people.

[gr8fuldaniel]

IOL [SIZE=3]'I saw dogs eating the body of a woman' [/SIZE] Samarra, Iraq - Waving white flags, Iraqis have fled Samarra on river boats as US forces claimed victory over insurgents in an offensive aimed at taking control of rebel-held cities. <snip> In 36 hours of fighting in the city, the US military said it killed 125 guerrillas and captured 88. About 3 000 US troops and 2 000 Iraqi soldiers had stormed Samarra on Friday. Aid organisations said they were concerned about a lack of water and electricity and the fate of hundreds of families forced to flee. One man, who said he escaped the city yesterday, reported that civilians had been killed. He said he had seen dogs picking at corpses in the street. "I swear I saw dogs eating the body of a woman," he said. Residents said bodies were left in the streets, untended due to the fear of snipers. Families tried to bury their dead on Sunday but the road to the cemetery was blocked off by US troops, witnesses said.

This is all done for us, we finance it and Americans cheer them on.
It is what America offers the world. The majority of Americans voted for more dogs eating human flesh in the street? Most Americans want us to feed our neighbors to dogs, I guess its because they arent real people, they think and act different. Its almost like they are less than us besides the dogs need to eat too, right? These people we are feeding to dogs, they are brown, so its like, OK, I guess. Has Bush been to a funeral for any American soldiers yet? No? Does he consider them losers for dying? Is he like his evil battilac mother? who doesnt want to dirty her beautiful mind with dead bodies and such?

[rmnunez]

gr8, the bodies of women executed by the insurgent/terrorists were found strewn across the streets in Fallujah. These were doubtless innocent civilians, but the advanced state of their decomposition in Fallujah suggests they died long before the Americans found them, head shots also suggest those in Fallujah were actually executed. Does you source refering to the dogs detail how long or who may have killed the women found dead in the streets of Samarra?

[gr8fuldaniel]

I know there are other articles on this same, story but this one doesnt mention head shots or how long they were dead. They are Iraqi civilian dead, so lets see, how is killing Iraqis to set them free from their bodies?

[gr8fuldaniel]

ReutersRules of War Broken in Falluja Assault

God save us from the seeds we are sowing.

[bullshitdetector]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, I know there are other articles on this same, story but this one doesnt mention head shots or how long they were dead. They are Iraqi civilian dead, so lets see, how is killing Iraqis to set them free from their bodies?

That was desperate, really really desperate.

[Haik]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, ReutersRules of War Broken in Falluja Assault God save us from the seeds we are sowing.

I also noticed for some reason they no longer march in lines or fire simultaneously...how very odd...rules of war just sounds funny to me.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Remember Wounded Knee? How we actually disarmed the natives and then slaughtered them? That should have been a good lesson not to massacre unarmed civilians. We have along way to go as a species. I am ashamed to be in the same species, thank God this is all temporary and we can all move up or down to the next level based on our choices.

[gr8fuldaniel]

This reads like a shopping list for the Bush Regime:

Geneva Convention Link Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, particularly article 3: "Article 3 In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions: 1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: (a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (b) Taking of hostages; (c.) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; (d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. 2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for. An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict. The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention. The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict."

[gr8fuldaniel]

This is a link to video from Australian Broadcasting of Americans shooting the wounded (Uncensored). Is this covered by our "Liberal Media" ?

More here: Link

NORMAN HERMANT: This is the what the fighting looks like in Fallujah. Buildings are the front line. It's in this environment that a US Marine unit approached a mosque on Saturday. This footage was filmed by an American journalist documenting the fighting. AMERICAN JOURNALIST: These are the guys from yesterday. These are the wounded that they never picked up. NORMAN HERMANT: The journalist can clearly be heard saying these are wounded from a previous battle the day before. They had been left there, clearly unarmed. US MARINE 1: (Shouts) He's fuckin' fakin' he's dead! US MARINE 2: Yeah! He's breathing! US MARINE 1: He's fakin' he's fuckin' dead! NORMAN HERMANT: "He's dead now," a voice says after the man is shot. US MARINE: (Shouts) Hey! This one's still alive! NORMAN HERMANT: The marines are again told these men were in the mosque yesterday. One survivor pleads for help. "Please," he says, yesterday I was shot over there and talked to all of you on camera. I am one of the guys from this whole group. I gave you information." The Marine Corps says it's important to view this shooting in the context of the conditions in Fallujah. Not far from where the incident took place, a marine was reported killed by booby-trapped body found in a house. Still, marine officers say that doesn't justify killing unarmed insurgents.

This makes me ill. I need a break, pray for our soldiers and our enemies, they all just want to get out alive. Peace.

[OberonDOtherseid]

http://mparent7777.blog-city.com/read/913435.htm


No wonder you're getting sick, stop reading that shit man, it isn't healthy .

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by bishop, i don't see how this is different than our "normal" targets.. every target is civilian when you're fighting a guerilla war.

Hospitals are never going to be normal targets. Just like a hospital ship is no target for a torpedo.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2004/11/...inuation-of.php

The Americans destroyed the Nazzal Emergency Hospital in the center of town. They stormed and occupied the Fallujah General Hospital, handcuffing doctors and patients, in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

See, hospitals are off limits to military ops.

JURIST Contibuting Editor Marjorie Cohn of Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego says that the massive US assault on Fallujah is but the latest instance of illegal American aggression in Iraq, undertaken with disregard for international treaties and the principles of international law.

This ain't no blog. It's a respected law forum, and

Marjorie Cohn, a professor at Thomas Jefferson School in San Diego, is executive vice president of the National Lawyers Guild, and the US representative to the executive committee of the American Association of Jurists.

War crimes are being committed daily, compounding the original attack and occupation of Iraq.

The Iraqi people, known in the media as "the insurgents," are engaged in lawful resistance to the illegal invasion, regime change, and occupation of their country by U.S. and U.K. forces. Bush’s war in Iraq is a war of aggression. "Aggression is the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this definition,” according to General Assembly Resolution 3314, passed in the wake of Vietnam. The only two situations where the UN Charter permits the use of armed force against another state is in self-defense, or when authorized by the Security Council. Iraq had not invaded the U.S., or any other country, Iraq did not constitute an imminent threat to any country, and the Security Council never sanctioned Bush’s war. Bush and the officials in his administration are committing the crime of aggression. Virtually every Western democracy has ratified the treaty of the International Criminal Court, except the United States. Bush knows that the Court will eventually prosecute leaders for the crime of aggression. Mindful that he and his officials could become defendants, Bush renounced the Court, and extracted bilateral immunity agreements from more than 80 countries. This year, however, Bush unsuccessfully sought to ram through the Security Council an immunity resolution that would exempt U.S. personnel from the Court’s jurisdiction. But shortly after the photographs of U.S. torture of Iraqi prisoners emerged, the Council refused to put its imprimatur on preferential treatment for the United States. Bush knows that the Court will also punish war crimes. Pursuant to policies promulgated by Bush and Rumsfeld, U.S. forces have engaged in widespread torture and inhuman treatment of prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Bush admitted in his 2003 State of the Union address that he had sanctioned summary executions of suspected terrorists. Torture, inhuman treatment, and willful killing are grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, treaties ratified by the United States. Grave breaches of Geneva are considered war crimes under our federal War Crimes Act of 1996. American nationals who commit war crimes abroad can receive life in prison, or even the death penalty if the victim dies. Under the doctrine of command responsibility, a commander can be held liable if he knew or should have known his inferiors were committing war crimes and he failed to prevent or stop them.

If this were a just world, Bush would have to stand trial for his heinous crimes. But as it is, he is excused and exonerated by the captive media. Until Judgement Day...

[Zeebadee]

The murder of an unarmed wounded man by a United States Marine will put a blot on the image of the Corps that can't ever be erased. I can only believe that this incident occurred because such activity is condoned, even encouraged, by the statements and actions of the civilian leaders in Washington. No one, the actual murderer included, will ever be held responsible for this crime. But it will become a part of the Bush Legacy. Like the cigar and the blue dress for clinton, the collateral damage from this insane war will become the Bush trademark.

When this Marine returns home, and the dust settles, and life returns to some semblance of normalcy for him, how will this man be able to rationalize a cold-blooded murder?

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Zeebadee, When this Marine returns home, and the dust settles, and life returns to some semblance of normalcy for him, how will this man be able to rationalize a cold-blooded murder?

I'm not taking anyone's side here, but although he may not be able to rationalize it, I think I can.
The man is well trained, but to fight another army and these guys ain't an army. He is put in unfamiliar, extremely hostile territory and told to go house to house looking for an enemy who looks just like the civilians. He's already heard about, or even seen firsthand the little trick of booby trapping a corpse, and he finds a room with "bodies" on the floor. He's also heard about the other trick of the enemy pretending to be wounded and laying on a gun with his finger on the trigger, waiting for the right moment . He's tense, untrained for the situation and most likely scared to death.
He's an animal, only because he has to be one. The man was some Mother's Son and someone's best friend at one time. He might have been an alter boy before, but he is a killer now because that's what we expect of him.
And we expect him to play by the RULES too?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Scribbler And we expect him to play by the RULES too?

Then we cant act surprised when our troops are treated the same. Beheadings and torture of our teenagers can just be expected as day to day occurances, and it doesnt really matter that they died for the profit of the elite corporate owners and Bush oil buddies. Bush is grinning ear to ear, hes raking it in, baby!
I guess we should just be glad we can better the world for a few, at the expense of the many. (sarcasm) .

"Children pay price of US offensive " from al Jazeera:

Ala Barham slumps in his hospital bed and stares blankly into the air in front of him. Twelve years old and still deeply in shock, he can barely speak. Ala's family had fled the Iraqi city of Falluja before last Monday's all-out offensive began. He was happily playing with his brother in the garden of their uncle's house in a village outside the city. Then the rocket hit. "My uncle died. They took us to hospital," he mumbles, speaking in little more than a whisper.

So, we are talking civilian targets. When it happens here, nobody should be surprised. We reap what we sow. You get what you give, and anyone who voted for Bush, has voted for an attack on American soil. Dont be surprised. It is a universal law.