DO SOMETHING!

[Young]

Gr8tful had a great idea for a website, many others are obviously strong enough to pull up and out of the "We shoulda known it would happen" Daze....and Now they're in a what next mood, but NO one is giving guidance to all this energy.

The Energy to get the Truth about Bush...to the People, is overwhelming...running through my mind, heart, and soul....instead of looking into moving to Canada......look into moving Bush outta the Whitehouse.....before 2008.

The Impeachment movement has Power, but the People aren't informed enough to back that yet......We must take the People to that point.

So its a Race......

Bush's Fast horse (Christian Right) gives him the lead, so we'll reduce the Liberalist touch given to Bush attacks, We'll make the attacks based solely on His strengths.

We must work Together as a Team and write an overall Text, one that gathers all the important, provable anti-Bush points.....& will write it as to have appeal to the Right....thus pulling the rug out from under Bush.

We don't have much time, Bush will soon move to silence those with Our Goals.....but We can find actions of Bush that aren't Christian, then we can write it into His other Failures, when we're done we should have a Serious argument.

Help.....America Needs You Now the Most Ever.

[Scribbler1]

Just what kind of website would this be? A forum, link source, blog or what? What kind of content would it have that you couldn't get elsewhere?

[JustinGilmore]

I actually have a great idea on how to organize a massive ammount of people via the internet, from litterally national, down to state, down to township groups. (Utilizes the internet) It would require some experts at codding though.

[Section 8]

And what might it be?

[Compugasm]

It's like watching a coven of vampires splashed with holy water in here. I doubt your serious about switching parties. Except, those that did not vote their conscience this election, and can easily switch back unnoticed. So, I encourage you to read about it for those who lost faith in leadership. Just a warning, you will not overthrow power in 4 or even 8yrs by claiming to be Libertarian. Belief that courts will vindicate you, or government will provide for all times is the vicious circle from which you can't escape. Libertarians do not fight this way, it doesn't work. YOU are the only one who will take care of you. Unless you accept this, please stop reading now and ignore me.

We've been saying for months terrorism is being used against us. It's a big money machine, etc... Forget about color warnings. Only you can break the cycle, because it's the individuals who watch the commercials, buying the products, keeping the whole cycle going. The only way to ensure you buy what they're selling, is to garuntee you are afraid of "Sharks, road rage, metors, road rage, terrorists, tornadoes, spaceships..." and tune in every night to your favorite sitcom.

You're being told how to rebel, by media, to get you in trouble on purpose. They want you to demonstrate infront of their cameras while police beat you. You're like the perfect martyr, because they can interview you later.

The Democrats strayed from the path that made Kerry so successful in the first place. "He looked like them, but talked like us" is how one guy in Going Upriver put it. I wish I had a nice catch phrase for this strategy, but I don't. Kerry did not look like a hippy protestor. He was articulate, and clean cut. Being a rebel means breaking the sterotypes, and that's what John Kerry did.

You want to defeat those in power, don't give it to them. Stay out of their radar. Don't look the part of what they expect a non-combatant to look like. Self-education is a big one. Tuition is free, I design my own major. It's really about solving problems. Learn how to build an organization, create a database, start a business, stay away from drugs, throw away credit cards, exercise, don't smoke, plant a garden... I admit, these things sound silly and unrelated to politics. But they're not when you consider what is argued about daily on this board. This is why I belive most will fail at "overthrowing" those in power. Because it's a minimalist way of life, and not a slogan or a flag to burn. Power isn't the goal Libertarians wish to achive, but self reliance.

And what might it be?

I already mentioned one idea two months ago called The X Party (skip my first post, and scroll down). I used a silly example, because I wanted to avoid flames, and get the message across.

[Scribbler1]

I still don't see where having a website is going to accomplish much. We've ALL seen literally hundreds of sites, legit, questionable and downright bogus, used as sources right here on Volconvo. It is the EASIEST thing to do, but would it be effective in the least? I could get off here, fire up Cold Fusion and in a couple of hours, poof, a brand new spiffy anti-Bush site. I just load it onto 4D Webhost and 5 min. later I just wait for the info to pour in from concerned folks all over the world.
The problem is, then what?

Don't get me wrong. I think the idea is good as it is one of the few outlets not yet controlled by the government we have left. My concern is both the saturation of political websites on the web, as well as the fact that a lot of people don't visit these sites, a lot of people CAN'T (as they don't use their computers for this) and the sheep out there would only go to a site they agree with already.

[gr8fuldaniel]

I will provide a webpage with a link to resources that are actually fighting the corrupt system. Starting with www.blackboxvoting.org because they are actually doing it and not just talking about it. If you want to do somehing and not just blab about it go to that link and send them a dollar. What they have done is filed for FOIA, what that means is if this spits out 8000 pages at .25 cents per page, that information costs 2000 dollars. If it brings 80,000 (we ARE talking about millions of votes) pages it will cost $20,000.00. So if you are in a position to give a little more America thanks you.

The second thing (equally important)would be to compel Ralph Nader to challenge the election results in New Hampshire, he has already agreed to do it if America rallies behind him. Now is the time.
I believe a challenge must be submitted within 10 days of an election. Days are ticking away!! He needs you to send him a fax so that he has your actual signature on paper. The number is:

Help Ralph run out of fax paper. 202-265-0092  Ralph challenge the election results in New Hampshire Now!

Then sign it!

[edit to fix link]

[gr8fuldaniel]

From the home page:http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Black Box Voting has taken the position that fraud took place in the 2004 election through electronic voting machines. We base this on hard evidence, documents obtained in public records requests, inside information, and other data indicative of manipulation of electronic voting systems. What we do not know is the specific scope of the fraud. We are working now to compile the proof, based not on soft evidence -- red flags, exit polls -- but core documents obtained by Black Box Voting in the most massive Freedom of Information action in history.

Your ability to ever have your vote counted again depends on the success of Election 2004 Audit

[Scribbler1]

Maybe Nader can actually do some good this time, eh? Two questions though, is a sig from another state considered valid in N.H. and is there a form or guideline for what ELSE to put in this fax? I would think Nader is not looking for a few hundred thousand signed faxes which are otherwise blank.

As for the TWO black box voting sites, I am at a loss to know which one is legit. The "Org" site says the "Com" site is "deceptively" similar (implying a lack of legitimacy) and the "Com" site says is no longer associated with them, but does link to her site.
Also, although I was prepared to contribute, neither site has a PayPal connection. I don't give my credit card numbers to such things on the web so no contribution at this time.

[gr8fuldaniel]

You are right Scribbler. I already submitted this:

Help Ralph run out of fax paper. 202-265-0092 Ralph! challenge the election results in New Hampshire Now! Then sign it!

It is important to sign it :
Black Box Voting Activist, (Your Name Here)


I dont see why your address would matter when this election involves a all of us. Ralph could probably do it without sigs. It will add umph to the cause to bring a truckload of petitions to court. Public Opinion weighs heavy in the scales of justice.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Scribbler1, As for the TWO black box voting sites, I am at a loss to know which one is legit. The "Org" site says the "Com" site is "deceptively" similar (implying a lack of legitimacy) and the "Com" site says is no longer associated with them, but does link to her site. Also, although I was prepared to contribute, neither site has a PayPal connection. I don't give my credit card numbers to such things on the web so no contribution at this time.

The .ORG site is the one I am referring to. Bev Harris is the activist and the author of the book. The other site was started by a guy (David Allen)who contributed to the book "Black Box Voting" in some capicity. Both sites have existed since Election 2000 debacle. Bevs site is legit, she has been doing all the work. Davids site has offerred the book for free from the start. (May be why they split?) David may have just been an interviewee for the original book. Just guessing on that part.

Bev was on Air America yesterday and was saying their site was crashing from all the responses and was requesting folks Mail donations:

BLACK BOX VOTING PO BOX 25552 SEATLE WASHINTON 98165-1052

[Dieval]

I kind of liked the whole idea of you all leaving for Canada....bon voyage

[gr8fuldaniel]

I am going to fight for Americans right to vote as long as I can.

The nifty thing about Nader starting with New Hampshire is the Dems actually Won in NH. So, this wont look like some crybaby, sore loser sort of deal.
The reason NH is prime for a start:
The exit polls:

.....show Kerry by a landslide where the had electronic voting.
The computer however spit out a very narrow victory for Kerry.

The reason Nader cant challenge in Ohio and Florida (Where it would clinch and depose Bush Regime) is because he wasnt allowed on the ballot in those prime pieces of real estate. Thats what Ive heard explained, but I thought he was included in Florida? Was that thrown out at last minute?
(I dont expect anyone to do my homework for me so I will look it up.)

[edit to add: click graph to enlarge] and the graph I am referring to is dead center of the pic.

[Young]

The Oct Suprise.......

Most everyone knew by Oct, that Bush had Won the Election......

The Shock of the Power this has given Him, thats seems more than enough to hold back any kind of movement.......many People think Highly of Bush, and Not just when you put Him beside Kerry.....

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Young, The Oct Suprise....... Most everyone knew by Oct, that Bush had Won the Election......

Youre kidding, right? After Bush bumbled and flopped around in all 3 debates. He really looked stupid. He doesnt like being challenged. At All.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, You are right Scribbler. I already submitted this: Help Ralph run out of fax paper. 202-265-0092  Ralph! challenge the election results in New Hampshire Now! Then sign it! It is important to sign it : Black Box Voting Activist, (Your Name Here)

My fault, sorry. I didn't notice that WAS the text to go in the fax. If it helps, I'm in. I'll fax it off tomorrow when I move my old fax machine out of my office (my 2nd office phone line isn't set for long distance).

I dont see why your address would matter when this election involves a all of us. Ralph could probably do it without sigs. It will add umph to the cause to bring a truckload of petitions to court. Public Opinion weighs heavy in the scales of justice.

I agree, it SHOULDN'T matter. My concern is if there are any laws in that particular state that prohibit such activity by non-residents. I am picturing the whole petition being thrown out because most of the signers aren't registered in NH. I don't know, but it seems plausible.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Nader did it! He sent a challenge to Secretary of State of New Hampshire. I posted the letter and a link on the "Fraud!" thread.

This is very good.

I think he got what he was after. He wanted to be able to say "Its what the People want"
But I would still send support/demands for recount faxes

[Young]

Someone did Something.........

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/...ynews-headlines

This Man picked a Spot that would make logical People ask, "Why that Location"?

The answer is, www.wanttoknow.info

This was a college faculty member here, and he chose to blow His brains out rather than see 4 more years of Bush.....and this Man did this in a way, that is bound to make people think.......

I want all of you Not to follow this Man's lead, you're more useful alive....most of ya anyway......

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Young,   This was a college faculty member here, and he chose to blow His brains out rather than see 4 more years of Bush.....and this Man did this in a way, that is bound to make people think.......

So regardless of, whether Bush MIGHT have decided to change his position on things, be forced by public opinion to change or the small chance what he did *may* actually work out, he blew his brains out.
Basically, he chose to kill himself rather than face the uncertain future. Uncertain, in the sense things could POSSIBLY not be as bad as he thought.

It makes me think, all right. It makes me think this guy had a LOT of issues not related to who is in the White House. I just hope no one sees this as an act of patriotism or protest. This was nothing more than the act of a weak, sick or just plain troubled man.

Move along, nothing to emulate here, move along.

[Rainbow]

I read posts and replies, and it appears that there is a strong drive to remove Bush from the WhiteHouse.
- how ?
- exhibits <=> fundaments ?
- data <=> source ?
- WHO is going to take over ?

Very cloudly views, except for emotional claims.