The European Dream

[castille]

I thought the European Dream was to make the tune for Queer Eye for the Straight Guy part of their national anthem?

Seriously speaking, Europeans and Americans just think differently. Europeans tend to be more into relaxing and doing less work (thus high taxes discourage people to do more work), while Americans have always pushed for achievement.

I frankly dislike the current European attitude that everyone can just take a year-long vacation. Europe's height of power was during a time when everyone was pressured to achieve and excel, and now Europe is turning into a decadent Rome.

Meanwhile Europe's former colonies (excluding African ones) are learning from their mistakes and Europe's own glory, and once they catch up to Europe (2 already have gone beyond Europe's total GDP), it'll be a bit of a wakeup call.

[Nono]

Originally posted by castille
Europe is turning into a decadent Rome.

Yeah, peel me a grape while you're at it.
We're enjoying it, though.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Compugasm,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Compugasm,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Pooeypants,
Sorry to be picky but wearing seatbelts saves many lives...

I&#39;m glad you picked up on that. Because our arguments are well intentioned, but boil down to either two points of view. Collective vs Individual way of thinking. Seatbelts do save lives. Do you need to be protected from yourself? Because anytime the state wishes to take away your rights, all they have to do is pass a law to do so "for the greater good". It is by this way of thinking we loose our freedom a little bit at a time.[/b][/quote]

(Off-Topic)
I don&#39;t want to turn this into the seatbelt thread, but a different example would be clearer for the particular point made.
One thing most people don&#39;t consider with seat belt use is that it&#39;s not just protecting you from yourself, they protect ME from you. This is why I support personal freedom AND seat belt laws.
When you go through an intersection and a car hits you on either side, the situation changes whether you are personally injured or not. A car hitting you on the driver side can knock you into the other seat and a car hitting you on the passenger side can push the car right out from under you. Either way, you end up a passenger in a moving, driverless 2-3 thousand pound projectile. If I&#39;m standing at the corner and your car decides to head towards ME, neither of us has any power to stop it.

[Compugasm]

That analogy makes as much sense as removing teeth from all the sharks, because one day you might be bitten.

[Scribbler1]

If that sort of thing was a one in a million shot I would agree. However it does happen and therefore should be addressed. It&#39;s not the same as Motorcycle helmets.
Personally, I like the idea of staying at the controls, even if my truck were to roll over.

[Nono]

Originally posted by Comp
That analogy makes as much sense as removing teeth from all the sharks, because one day you might be bitten.

Absurd. If you could prompt sharks to remove their dentures when near you, then you wouldn&#39;t get bitten. It would work.

Here&#39;s a question for you. Are you in favour of abolishing speed limits? (For cars, not sharks.)

[Compugasm]

Originally posted by Nono,
Here&#39;s a question for you. Are you in favour of abolishing speed limits?

You mean, a trick question. As if I advocate no laws at all. Are you talking school and construction zones, straight open freeways at night, city streets, blind corners on country roads? Is it snowing, raining, sunny day? There is a speed limit no matter what, and there are logical situations you can present. Even the famed autobahn has rules.

[Lava]

It struck me that the piece was very one sided, pro european union, which most of us here in Britain are not. Also it struck me as full of holes. I wonder if the writer&#39;s case would be at all convincing if the various errors in it were snipped out or corrected.

Lava

[Nono]

Originally posted by Lava
I wonder if the writer&#39;s case would be at all convincing if the various errors in it were snipped out or corrected.

Yeah, the Brits are stalwart Euro-skeptics.

So rather than simply making the sweeping statement that Rifkin is full of crap, how about enumerating and correcting those errors?

[Nono]

Originally posted by Comp
You mean, a trick question. As if I advocate no laws at all. Are you talking school and construction zones, straight open freeways at night, city streets, blind corners on country roads? Is it snowing, raining, sunny day? There is a speed limit no matter what, and there are logical situations you can present. Even the famed autobahn has rules.

So tricky that you haven&#39;t really answered it. I&#39;m talking about everything since it seems to me that if wearing a seatbelt can prevent injury not only to you but to others, there&#39;s a case for requiring it.
The same applies to speed limits, especially as Murphy&#39;s Law dictates that the speeder often walks away without a scratch after killing someone else.

So if you feel that seatbelts are an intolerable example of state megalomania cramping your personal freedom, I ask: What about speed limits, in any and all circumstances?

Even the famed autobahn has rules.

No speed limit there.

[Compugasm]

Originally posted by Nono,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nono,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I ask: What about speed limits, in any and all circumstances?[/b]

That&#39;s why it&#39;s a trick quesiton. There is no possible way to answer that, especially when you throw out "well what if I was standing on a street corner..." situations.

<!--QuoteBegin-Nono,
No speed limit there.[/quote]
What&#39;s this?

[Nono]

Originally posted by Comp
What&#39;s this?

Well, read it yourself and find out. We are talking cars, aren&#39;t we? (Not "motorcycles pulling trailers", "buses", etc.) For those there are speed limits. But for cars, your source says:

A guidance speed of 130 km/h is in effect; this speed is no binding limit but being involved in an accident at higher speeds can lead to being assigned part of the fault due to "increased operating danger"

That (a piss-poor translation of the German) means that the authorities recommend a speed, but you&#39;re not obliged to observe it. If, however, you exceed their recommendation and have an accident, you may be "assigned part of the fault ...". If you&#39;re still alive, that is.

We&#39;re talking Germany, of course, and I think it&#39;s insane.
Here in Switzerland there&#39;s a speed limit, as in any civilized country.

I&#39;ll say this about North America: It has the best, most courteous drivers of anywhere I&#39;ve ever been. (Yes, the Brits are OK too, as are the Scandanavians.) Everywhere else seems to be populated by lemmings on wheels.