FRAUD!

[gr8fuldaniel]

The real terrorists ARE running around free.

Has there been a successful prosecution of ANYONE responsible for the 911 attacks?

Edit to add: Thanx Starboy!

[gr8fuldaniel]

Sign this petition, Save America!!

Petition Online [SIZE=3] A Petition to Congress requesting an investigation into the Presidential Election of 2004 [/SIZE] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: United States Congress TO: All members of the Congress of the United States of America; all Senators and Members of the House of Representatives A Petition to immediately and without delay open a joint investigation into potential wrongdoing in the Presidential Election of 2004, specifically to investigate the potential of voting machine manipulation or purposeful malfunction, especially electronic voting machines manufactured and supplied by Diebold, Inc.; Electronic Systems & Software (ES & S); Sequoia Voting Systems, and others, and also to identify and investigate all allegations of improper conduct by election officials, workers, observers, challengers and operatives and employees of both major parties concerning the voting process including intimidation, dissemination of improper information, manipulation of registration records, improper handling of actual voting ballots and, in general, any and all potential improprieties which could have led to improper or inaccurate election results. Such inquiries should not be limited to any particular state, precinct or district but strive to examine the voting process in any and all areas in which there is even the slightest indication of impropriety, but especially in the states of Florida, Ohio, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Nevada, New Mexico, Iowa, Arkansas, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Texas and New Hampshire, and not limit such investigation, and expand such investigations to cover Senatorial races as well, especially those in Kentucky, Florida and South Dakota. We, the undersigned, request that our elected representatives act in accordance with the Constitution of the United States of America in a legal, impartial and expedient manner for an open hearing before the people of the United States and if such wrongdoing, illegal practices, manipulation of voting records or processes is of such a nature to indicate egregious or extensive tampering, alteration or misappropriation of the voting process that the violators be brought to justice and remedies, potentially including a nationwide audit, recall, recount or new election be imposed by your bodies. We feel it is our patriotic duty to request such action from you, our elected officials, and your duty to respond in a responsible manner. Sincerely, (sign it here) The Undersigned

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, The real terrorists ARE running around free. Has there been a successful prosecution of ANYONE responsible for the 911 attacks? Edit to add: Thanx Starboy!

How do you prosecute the dead?

[gr8fuldaniel]

November 10, 2004 | 12:43 p.m. ET [SIZE=3]North Carolina Do-over [/SIZE] Keith Olbermann MSNBC NEW YORK— With news this morning that the computerized balloting in North Carolina is so thoroughly messed up that all state-wide voting may be thrown out and a second election day scheduled, the story continues. Tonight on 'Countdown,' we'll examine the N.C. mess (which would not include a second presidential vote), new fuzzy math in Nevada, allegations against the Democrats in Pennsylvania, Ralph Naders news conference, and the other voting developments as they occur. A Stanford computer expert will address the vulnerability of the Optical Scanning system (and answer the question: which is easier to hack, electronic voting or exit polls?), and Newsweek's Jonathan Alter will join me to report on the reporting. edit to add link In the interim, for the North Carolina situation, we refer you to the Website of the excellent newspaper The Charlotte Observer

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel, The real terrorists ARE running around free. Has there been a successful prosecution of ANYONE responsible for the 911 attacks?

How do you prosecute the dead?[/b][/quote] OBL is Dead? Why didnt I hear about it? Just shows you no matter how hard you try to stay on top of .........

I know his employees are dead. 100,000 Iraqis are dead. Our Bill of Rights is Dead.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Dieval,@ <!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel, The real terrorists ARE running around free. Has there been a successful prosecution of ANYONE responsible for the 911 attacks? How do you prosecute the dead?

OBL is Dead? Why didnt I hear about it? Just shows you no matter how hard you try to stay on top of .........

I know his employees are dead. 100,000 Iraqis are dead. Our Bill of Rights is Dead.[/b][/quote]
So OBL might not be dead - but we've captured or killed 3/4 of the leaders of al qeada and they are on the run - but all of the actual hi-jackers are dead...how can you prosecute them? If the rest would just turn themselves in we could "prosecute" them....why don't you use your influence with them and have them turn themselves in?

You have a seperate Bill of Rights from everyone else?
The US Bill of Rights is just fine....

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Dieval,@ <!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel, The real terrorists ARE running around free. Has there been a successful prosecution of ANYONE responsible for the 911 attacks? How do you prosecute the dead?

OBL is Dead? Why didnt I hear about it? Just shows you no matter how hard you try to stay on top of .........

I know his employees are dead. 100,000 Iraqis are dead. Our Bill of Rights is Dead.[/b][/quote]
So OBL might not be dead - but we've captured or killed 3/4 of the leaders of al qeada and they are on the run - but all of the actual hi-jackers are dead...how can you prosecute them? If the rest would just turn themselves in we could "prosecute" them....why don't you use your influence with them and have them turn themselves in?

You have a seperate Bill of Rights from everyone else?
The US Bill of Rights is just fine....[/b][/quote]
"but we've captured or killed 3/4" of what number?
Havent we, in fact, surreptitiously helped recruit for alQaida, by giving the Muslims in the Middle East a hundred thousand reasons to hate us yankees?
As for the Bill of Rights, I guess you havent heard of the Patriot Act, which undermines the Constitution your heroes have sworn to protect?

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, <!--QuoteBegin-Dieval, @ <!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel, The real terrorists ARE running around free. Has there been a successful prosecution of ANYONE responsible for the 911 attacks? How do you prosecute the dead? OBL is Dead? Why didnt I hear about it? Just shows you no matter how hard you try to stay on top of ......... I know his employees are dead. 100,000 Iraqis are dead. Our Bill of Rights is Dead.

So OBL might not be dead - but we've captured or killed 3/4 of the leaders of al qeada and they are on the run - but all of the actual hi-jackers are dead...how can you prosecute them? If the rest would just turn themselves in we could "prosecute" them....why don't you use your influence with them and have them turn themselves in?

You have a seperate Bill of Rights from everyone else?
The US Bill of Rights is just fine....[/b][/quote]
"but we've captured or killed 3/4" of what number?
Havent we, in fact, surreptitiously helped recruit for alQaida, by giving the Muslims in the Middle East a hundred thousand reasons to hate us yankees?
As for the Bill of Rights, I guess you havent heard of the Patriot Act, which undermines the Constitution your heroes have sworn to protect?[/b][/quote]
I guess you'd have us do nothing against terrorism/terrorists....not surprising, coming from you...
And yes, I've heard of the PA...wonderful document...it's been preventing terrorism from harming you and I for a couple of years now...

[CivicRacingGirl7]

Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel, "the objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." Is <s> Asscrap</s> Ashcroft shirking his duty by walking away from the[SIZE=3]  Crime of the Century[/SIZE] ? Does he Know too much?.........WAY TOO MUCH ? Edit to add:  [Bumper Sticker] INDICT ASHCROFT [/Bumper Sticker]

You just won't be happy until terrorists are given the chance to run free in this country? :confused:[/b][/quote]

Who needs terrorists running around when anyone can go to a gun show and purchase a gun?

[gr8fuldaniel]

What does Iraq have to do with terrorism? The only thing this Admin has done about terror is to order a stand down when they were actually attacking us, on 911.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What does Iraq have to do with terrorism?[/b]

You'll buy into every conspiracy theory under the sun - no questions asked - yet you still have no idea what Iraq had to to with terrorism??
<!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel,
The only thing this Admin has done about terror is to order a stand down when they were actually attacking us, on 911.[/quote]So you would have had our military shoot down passenger jets over the country?

[gr8fuldaniel]

They could have been intercepted and given the option of landing or being shot down.

Or how abot if security were raised at the airports when Bush was advised in PDB, that "Osama determined to attack in USA"

Or the FBI could have questioned the hijackers why they only wanted to learn how to fly but not land airplanes

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, They could have been intercepted and given the option of landing or being shot down. Or how abot if security were raised at the airports when Bush was advised in PDB, that "Osama determined to attack in USA" Or the FBI could have questioned the hijackers why they only wanted to learn how to fly but not land airplanes

For your first statement, it would have worked, had there been time.

For your second statement, are you saying that Bush should have pre-emptively attacked Afghanistan to prevent 9/11?

For your third statement, yes, I agree that should have happened - HOWEVER now things like that are happening and you keep saying that our civil liberties are being taken away...make up your mind as to what you want to have done..

[gr8fuldaniel]

Dieval, thats all Bait and Switch. We have already beat all that into the ground. If you want to discuss 911 Conspiracies, bump another thread that already exists for that topic. Thanx.

[SIZE=2] I'm bringing us back on topic:[/SIZE]

A letter from John Kerrys brother, Cam Kerry:

11/09/04 Message from Cam Kerry (John's brother): I am grateful to the many people who have contacted me to express their deep concern about questions of miscounting, fraud, vote suppression, and other problems on election day, especially in Florida and Ohio. Their concern reflects how much people care about the outcome of this election. I want to you to know we are not ignoring it. Election protection lawyers are still on the job in Ohio and Florida and in DC making sure all the votes are counted accurately. I have been conferring with lawyers involved and have made them aware of the information and concerns people have given me. Even if the facts don't provide a basis to change the outcome, the information will inform the continuing effort to protect the integrity of our elections. If you have specific factual information about voting problems that could be helpful to the lawyers doing their job, please send it to vri@dnc.org rather than to me. The election protection effort has been important to me personally, and I am proud of the 17,000 lawyers around the country who helped. It's obvious that we have a way to go still, but their efforts helped make a difference. Their work goes on. Thank you, Cam Kerry

I found this among many other Election Fraud links Here

[Sonart]

Originally posted by Dieval You'll buy into every conspiracy theory under the sun - no questions asked - yet you still have no idea what Iraq had to to with terrorism??

What, you mean besides Iraq now being the global center for terrorism?

If you think because Bush won the election it makes all the nonsense about this war true, you're cheerfully deluded. There were still no WMD or related programs in Iraq, there was still no connection to al-Qaeda, and Iraq was still a minimal player in the Palestinian conflict. This was still an unprovoked war of imperial aggression, justified on the completely false intelligence of an Iranian spy, and as predicted by Bush's CIA, State and senior military, has buried our military up to it's neck in a never ending guerilla goose chase that we'll never get out of.

I guess you'd have us do nothing against terrorism/terrorists....not surprising, coming from you...

How about doing what works. International police work. As someone should be telling you every single day, our military action is NOT winning in Iraq.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by Sonart,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sonart,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What, you mean besides Iraq now being the global center for terrorism? [/b]

We should fight the terrorists on their turf, NOT OURS. Weren't you the part of the group saying that SA, Iran and NK were better targets for terrorism?? If this is true, then why are we fighting terrorists in Iraq?

Originally posted by Sonart,@ If you think because Bush won the election it makes all the nonsense about this war true, you're cheerfully deluded. There were still no WMD or related programs in Iraq, there was still no connection to al-Qaeda, and Iraq was still a minimal player in the Palestinian conflict. This was still an unprovoked war of imperial aggression, justified on the completely false intelligence of an Iranian spy, and as predicted by Bush's CIA, State and senior military, has buried our military up to it's neck in a never ending guerilla goose chase that we'll never get out of.

No WMD related programs? I think you need to check again...and providing support to the family of terrorists is minimal? How much support does someone need to give before it becomes a problem? And the whole "no connection to al-qeada" thing is wrong..
<!--QuoteBegin-Sonart,

How about doing what works. International police work. As someone should be telling you every single day, our military action is NOT winning in Iraq.[/quote]So now we're the "international police"? Or did you mean some other group of "international police"? Can you give me there number? might be a good thing to know...


And as gr8 said, lets get back on topic.....none of this has to do with the conspiracy theories about election fraud...

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, [SIZE=3] A Petition to Congress requesting an investigation into the Presidential Election of 2004  [/SIZE]   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To:  United States Congress TO: All members of the Congress of the United States of America; all Senators and Members of the House of Representatives

Who is the author of that petition ?
What bases ?

There are appx. 285 million people in U.S., while appx. 14,000 have signed that petition. Nice going, guys.
Whoever has created that petition, needs to consult its views with a doctor.

Why ?
Regardless of all the Constitutional and LAw related procedures and results, Bush's testimony MUST cover his admittion on that alleged fruad, what would never happen regardless of facts.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Petition to GAO from Congressmen to investigate Election machines and technologies.

I had heard about this but couldnt find it til now. Also this has new signers since this was drafted on Nov.5.
(Its PDF)

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Rainbow,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rainbow,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel, [SIZE=3] A Petition to Congress requesting an investigation into the Presidential Election of 2004  [/SIZE]

Who is the author of that petition ?

His name is on the bottom of the petition.

What bases ?

citizens, I suppose. Is there a law against that?

There are appx. 285 million people in U.S., while appx. 14,000 have signed that petition. Nice going, guys.

It is nice going since there were about 8000 when I signed it 5 hours ago.

Whoever has created that petition, needs to consult its views with a doctor Why ? Regardless of all the Constitutional and LAw related procedures and results, Bush's testimony MUST cover his admittion on that alleged fruad, what would never happen regardless of facts.

[/b][/quote] LOL, could you decypher that last part for me? Not sure what Bush's testimony has to do with anything

[Sonart]

Originally posted by Dieval We should fight the terrorists on their turf, NOT OURS.

This is a completely false premise. If we had not invaded Iraq but instead had focused on securing Afghanistan, there would not suddenly be terrorists flooding our country.

It took bin Laden 5 years to put together 9/11, and that's when we weren't expecting it. Now that we're totally expecting it, I don't see an attack on American soil anytime soon, whether we were in Iraq or not. American POLICE work will make such attacks next to impossible.

But now that we've made it so incredibly easy to kill Americans in Iraq - 2 a day, day after day after day, to say nothing of the kidnappings - we've got them exactly where they want us.

Surprise, surprise, we march into Fallujah and fight a few scrubs. The real insurgents have melted away and suddenly Baghdad is the new battlefield. Iraqi security is getting slaughtered in scores, the insurgency nowhere and everywhere. Welcome to Dear Leader's brave new world.

It's a guerilla war we can't win, Dieval. Our forces are stretched too far from home and theirs are surrounded by Muslim nations whose populations loathe Americans and are supplying the insurgents with material, fighters and martyrs. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WIN, they just have to keep us from winning until we exhaust ourselves and leave Iraq to it's chaotic and rabidly anti-American fundamentalist Muslim state.

Bush is not fighting terrorism on their turf, he's LOSING to terrorism on their turf, exactly as his CIA, State and senior military WARNED HIM would happen.

--"We are about to do something that will ignite a fuse in this region that we will rue the day we ever started.... Attacking Iraq now will cause a lot of problems. It might be interesting to wonder why all the generals see it the same way and all those who never fired a shot in anger and are really hell-bent to go to war see it a different way. That's usually the way it is in history.... I worry about the commitment and cost of the aftermath.... You could inherit the country of Iraq if you're willing to do it -- if our economy is so great that you're willing to put billions of dollars into reforming Iraq, if you want to put soldiers that are already stretched thin all around the world and add them into a security force there forever."-- General Anthony Zinni, former commander in chief, U.S. Central Command, and Bush's former special envoy to the Middle East