FRAUD!

[gr8fuldaniel]

No, its not OK., and No, We wont just get over it.
We let them get away with 2000. NEVER AGAIN!!!

Berkeley Daily Planet [SIZE=2] Another Stolen Election:[/SIZE] By JAMES K. SAYRE Sen. Kerry won a landslide victory by between two million and five million votes. The pre-election public opinion polls pointed to a large and growing Kerry election day majority and the election day exit polls also indicated a Kerry victory. Unfortunately, theocratic extremely right-wing computer election machine manufacturing corporations were in charge of “counting” the votes of millions and millions of Americans. Some how, a few million Kerry votes didn’t get counted and a few million bogus Bush votes showed up in the final election tallies and voila, a Bush “victory.” Democracy in 21st century America has been kidnapped and destroyed by extreme right-wing control of the new secret computerized electronic vote counting systems. Verifiable hand-counted paper ballots are the only way to restore legitimate elections in America.

[rcne]

Look what you're using for reference???

Do you really expect any unbiased credibility to be derived from 'Berkley'.

why is 2.5 million a landslide, and 2.5 not a mandate?

The left coast will remain fringe - sorry about that.

Weren't you the member that thinks Ralph Nader is a member of the center?

OK don't get over it, others will and the world moves on.

I had to edit to state again - any poll including exit polls are just that - a poll. Polls are leading questions and just like statistics, easily manipulated to find whatever answer you're looking for.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Unbelievable!
MSNBC covers election shenanigans in Ohio.
Terrorist alert for small town Ohio, Red Alert! Lockdown, no interviews.
Watch video here:Countdown video

MSNBC COUNTDOWN/MSNBC [SIZE=2] Electronic voting angst[/SIZE] (Keith Olbermann) NEW YORK — Bev Harris, the Blackbox lady, was apparently quoted in a number of venues during the day Monday as having written “I was tipped off by a person very high up in TV that the news has been locked down tight, and there will be no TV coverage of the real problems with voting on Nov. 2… My source said they’ve also been forbidden to talk about it even on their own time.” I didn’t get the memo. <clip> Interestingly, none of the complaining emailers took issue with the remarkable results out of Cuyahoga County, Ohio. In 29 precincts there, the County’s website shows, we had the most unexpected results in years: more votes than voters. I’ll repeat that: more votes than voters. 93,000 more votes than voters. Oops. Talk about successful get-out-the-vote campaigns! What a triumph for democracy in Fairview Park, twelve miles west of downtown Cleveland. Only 13,342 registered voters there, but they cast 18,472 votes. Vote early! Vote often!

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by rcne, Look what you're using for reference???

Dont shoot the messenger

why is 2.5 million a landslide, and 2.5 not a mandate?

He said between 2M and 5M. This is not the official count. Bush Kerry are not challenging this miscarriage. We need to count all the votes. You will see soon enough. We are not going to just overlook it this time.

Weren't you the member that thinks Ralph Nader is a member of the center?

I have never stated that, but, I suppose he is.
I know he is against corporate control of Washington. Thats good enuff for me.

OK don't get over it, others will and the world moves on.

I wont get over it, maybe you are content with the criminal hijacking of America. I expect better.

I had to edit to state again - any poll including exit polls are just that - a poll. Polls are leading questions and just like statistics, easily manipulated to find whatever answer you're looking for.

We arent relying only on polls. Strongly Dem areas went to Bush and Miscounts have been found responsible.

[OberonDOtherseid]

It just doesn't do any good to argue with those who refuse to accept what is, is. When they do investigate it and the results are conclusive that there is and was no conspiracy some will simply name another conspiracy to the conspiracy. Horse.Water.no drink.

[Young]

Gr8tful - Honestly, You know i'd try, i'd walk through fire with ya......but over 50% of Americans won't view Us favorably, and Bush has the Ultimate patsy in Kerry....who has thrown in the towel, i don't think we could be anymore dead in the water.

[PatrickHenry]

What do you expect from Knights of the Order of Skull and Bones? They are not gonna duke it out. Chivalry reigns.

Interesting that Edwards lost his job. Kerry still has a high-paying sinecure...

They planned this.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Originally posted by Young, Gr8tful - Honestly, You know i'd try, i'd walk through fire with ya......but over 50% of Americans won't view Us favorably, and Bush has the Ultimate patsy in Kerry....who has thrown in the towel, i don't think we could be anymore dead in the water.

Kerry was his own patsy. And yes, Kerry left you dead in the water. Now the healing begins.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by OberonDOtherseid, It just doesn't do any good to argue with those who refuse to accept what is, is. When they do investigate it and the results are conclusive that there is and was no conspiracy some will simply name another conspiracy to the conspiracy. Horse.Water.no drink.

And what if there IS vote fraud, what would you say then?
While I do agree that a lot of people will continue down the list until something is found or not, a lot of other people are simply concerned that there is some actual, credible evidence that there might be vote fraud and they want to bring it to light. I'm satisfied that Bush is still the president, AS LONG AS IT IS LEGIT! If it isn't I damn sure want to know. I'd want to know if there was a probability that the Democrats had cheated. I don't actually give a damn WHO tampered with the election, so long as they are caught (and killed if I had my way).

You act like someone is asking YOU to do a recount. Why can't you just let them do their thing and not worry about it?
It's interesting that the Bush fans are demeaning anyone who feels there is some hanky panky going on when they can easily just say "go ahead, my man has nothing to hide and the Republican party is blameless, you'll see" and then shut the hell up until the investigation is over.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by OberonDOtherseid,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (OberonDOtherseid,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Young, Gr8tful - Honestly, You know i'd try, i'd walk through fire with ya......but over 50% of Americans won't view Us favorably, and Bush has the Ultimate patsy in Kerry....who has thrown in the towel, i don't think we could be anymore dead in the water.

Kerry was his own patsy. And yes, Kerry left you dead in the water. Now the healing begins.[/b][/quote]

If only it were that easy. Remember there are a LOT of Kerry voters (not supporters) who voted for Kerry strictly AGAINST Bush and they are not going to be pacified with anything as long as he is still around. I think this election was far too hostile and people far too angry for that.

[Milton Bradley]

Originally posted by Scribbler1, And what if there IS vote fraud, what would you say then? While I do agree that a lot of people will continue down the list until something is found or not, a lot of other people are simply concerned that there is some actual, credible evidence that there might be vote fraud and they want to bring it to light. I'm satisfied that Bush is still the president, AS LONG AS IT IS LEGIT! If it isn't I damn sure want to know. I'd want to know if there was a probability that the Democrats had cheated. I don't actually give a damn WHO tampered with the election, so long as they are caught (and killed if I had my way). You act like someone is asking YOU to do a recount. Why can't you just let them do their thing and not worry about it? It's interesting that the Bush fans are demeaning anyone who feels there is some hanky panky going on when they can easily just say "go ahead, my man has nothing to hide and the Republican party is blameless, you'll see" and then shut the hell up until the investigation is over.

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Has it occured to you that the people you advocate letting count the votes are the very people who put fourth these "candidates" in the first place?


The whole system is broken. How much more do people need to see?


Just like the 9/11 Commission, I'm sure they would find no "punishable" offenses will have occurred, but there will be a recommendation of tightening the rules a little, to prevent possible fraud in the future.


The same old song, and dance routine.


I just feel the need to remind people that virtually all the people who have commited treason against their countrymen currently wear the elephant, or the donkey on their lappel.


The people resposible for you not being able to exercise your constitutional rights are all Republicans, and Democrats. Perhaps a few Progressives in the early days, but they too have been locked out by the bi-partisan monster Republo Democrat, two headed beast.


This is your wake-up call people.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Milton Bradley, Has it occured to you that the people you advocate letting count the votes are the very people who put fourth these "candidates" in the first place?

Excellent point MB. Unfortunately it HAS occurred to me, and I have little faith in the government to investigate itself. But short of an international investigating team, we have little recourse.
In this case, a little investigating is preferable to none. Assuming the worst is part of my cynical nature but to automatically know there is an impossibility of the truth getting out fills me with a little more sense of futility than I need right before bed.

[Milton Bradley]

I wish you would also take some of those other points under consideration. Really.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Milton Bradley, I wish you would also take some of those other points under consideration. Really.

I do, but I don't respond to all of them all of the time. I'm guilty of too many article-length posts as it is! :)

[Samildanach]

The UN needs to be in control of the voting machines and send international representatives to each state for the election.
If your country can't get its act together enough to hold undeniably fair elections then you need someone else impartial to do it for you.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Samildanach, The UN needs to be in control of the voting machines and send international representatives to each state for the election.

I wish you were wrong. Apparently our leaders cant be trusted with handling something so precious as the will of the people. This crime precedes John Ashcroft stepping down with the statement "America is Secure". Yeah secure for these idiots to abuse America's Bill of Rights for 4 more years. Maybe John Ashcroft should have filed some lawsuits against the criminals who stole our votes, before he stepped down. He had a full plate with this fiasco. He knows who did it. He has yet to fulfill his oath. Maybe thats exactly why he is stepping down at this time?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Vote Fraud! "I've been saying all along that my biggest fear is that someone would program a machine to give a wrong answer. If that were to happen, the machine would still work fine - we just wouldn't know it." Avi Rubin Professor, Computer Science Johns Hopkins University cited in E-Vote goes smoothly, but experts skeptical -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Why am I always being asked to prove these systems aren't secure? The burden of proof ought to be on the vendor. You ask about the hardware. 'Secret.' The software? 'Secret.' What's the cryptography? 'Can't tell you because that'll compromise the secrecy of the machines.'... Federal testing procedures? 'Secret'! Results of the tests? 'Secret'! Basically we are required to have blind faith." —Dr David Dill Professor, Computer Science Stanford University cited in How they could steal the election this time

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Edit to put in quotes and add:We have been warning them for years. Isnt part of John Ashcrofts job to pursue Justice? What is he running away from?

[gr8fuldaniel]

LA TimesWASHINGTON — In his five-page, handwritten letter of resignation to President Bush, U.S. Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft declared that "the objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved."

"the objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved."
Is <s> Asscrap</s> Ashcroft shirking his duty by walking away from the[SIZE=3] Crime of the Century[/SIZE] ?
Does he Know too much?.........WAY TOO MUCH ?

Edit to add: [Bumper Sticker] INDICT ASHCROFT [/Bumper Sticker]

[Starboy]

The funny thing about keeping cryptographic algorithms secret is that keeping such algorithms secret is not how you test the effectiveness of cryptographic algorithms. The standard method for testing such algorithms is to open them up to all comers and then have a race to see who can break them first even if you have the inner workings sitting right in front of your nose. Algorithms that can withstand that kind of attack are then considered trustworthy. So any voting system that is not subjected to that same methods of testing should not be considered trustworthy and therefore should not be allowed for use in elections.

Starboy

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, "the objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." Is <s> Asscrap</s> Ashcroft shirking his duty by walking away from the[SIZE=3] Crime of the Century[/SIZE] ? Does he Know too much?.........WAY TOO MUCH ? Edit to add: [Bumper Sticker] INDICT ASHCROFT [/Bumper Sticker]

You just won't be happy until terrorists are given the chance to run free in this country? :confused: