FRAUD!

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Dieval Sorry gr8, but you need to take anything said from freepress.org with a grain(or2) of salt...

Is there anything in that article you can refute?

[Starboy]

Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Starboy, The recounts in Florida didn't change the outcome in Florida but they did lead to changes in the state voting system. Changes that have created the oppourtunity for more fraud not less. I hope the same doesn't happen in Ohio. Starboy

Good answer...makes sense.[/b][/quote]

The whole thing stinks. There was fraud in Florida in 2000 and it appears that the Republicans took advantage of the uproar to put in place computerized voting machines that just about anybody could fool with. The mere fact that they will not operate unless they are networked to the state system should give anyone that knows anything about computers pause. Such a configuration would allow a single person to tamper with every electronic voting machine in the state in a matter of seconds.

Starboy

[OberonDOtherseid]

The ballots where not machines. There was no fraud, there is no conspiracy, ....... THERE IS NO SPOON.

[gr8fuldaniel]

[OberonDOtherseid]

That is a tired subject, they never showed....the cry of the 2000 election has been put to rest, move on man...

[gr8fuldaniel]

Surprising pattern of Florida's Election Results
Check out Dixie County
Doesnt it seem odd that 75% are registered Democrat yet 75% voted for Bush?

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, Maybe it isnt that he doesnt care. This makes more sense to me: [Possible Scenario] Kerry's life was threatened (or his family) pending his concession, however if we draft him he has already kept his end of the deal, his life will be spared [/Possible Scenario] Remember the goonsquad we are dealing with here, Christian in word, not in deed.

conspiracy theory....why am I not surprised?

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Dieval Sorry gr8, but you need to take anything said from freepress.org with a grain(or2) of salt...

Is there anything in that article you can refute?[/b][/quote]
Come on...I could write a story saying that martins came down and voted for Bush, but it doesn't make it the truth.. Let the investigation happen and we'll see the results.

[Starboy]

Originally posted by Dieval, Let the investigation happen and we'll see the results.

No one is asking for anything else.

Starboy

[gr8fuldaniel]

well, I dont have any proof. But hey, you dont have any proof for your theory either. That he just doesnt care. These are opinions that we really cant debate.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, well, I dont have any proof. But hey, you dont have any proof for your theory either. That he just doesnt care. These are opinions that we really cant debate.

Kerry conceded the election without calling fraud...I don't know what more needs to be said?

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel, well, I dont have any proof. But hey, you dont have any proof for your theory either. That he just doesnt care. These are opinions that we really cant debate.

Kerry conceded the election without calling fraud...I don't know what more needs to be said?[/b][/quote]

Actually, one more thing DOES need to be said. Kerry's reason for the quick concession was, as Nixon's was, to not put the country through the same crap as the last time. Calling "fraud" would absolutely put us back to 2000.

You may or may not buy this as his real motivation, but you can't say it wasn't.

[Starboy]

Yes but if there was fraud twice in a row why wouldn't every American of any party or non-party want to know about it?

Starboy

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Starboy, Yes but if there was fraud twice in a row why wouldn't every American of any party or non-party want to know about it? Starboy

Because the guilty party would have everyone believe it was computer error, or whatever. Anything but felony election fraud.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, Surprising pattern of Florida's Election Results Check out Dixie County Doesnt it seem odd that 75% are registered Democrat yet 75% voted for Bush?

75% of the population are registered democrats? Ok. I guess that means that 75% of those who voted supported Bush, this is not in any way claiming the 75% who are registered democrat voted republican. You do understand that, right?

[Dieval]

Originally posted by Scribbler1, Actually, one more thing DOES need to be said. Kerry's reason for the quick concession was, as Nixon's was, to not put the country through the same crap as the last time. Calling "fraud" would absolutely put us back to 2000. You may or may not buy this as his real motivation, but you can't say it wasn't.

The only reason I would think otherwise is that he had an army of lawyers warming up in the bullpin ready to yell fraud and fight for the election, then gives up...

[OberonDOtherseid]

Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel, well, I dont have any proof. But hey, you dont have any proof for your theory either. That he just doesnt care. These are opinions that we really cant debate.

Kerry conceded the election without calling fraud...I don't know what more needs to be said?[/b][/quote]

Some people see a mirage when lost in a desert, then they come upon the reality of the illusion while sucking down dry hot sand thinking it is water.......... still.

[Starboy]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Starboy, Yes but if there was fraud twice in a row why wouldn't every American of any party or non-party want to know about it? Starboy

Because the guilty party would have everyone believe it was computer error, or whatever. Anything but felony election fraud.[/b][/quote]

Fine then. Maybe we would have a chance to fix or replace those voting machines so it wouldn't happen again.

Starboy

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Starboy, Yes but if there was fraud twice in a row why wouldn't every American of any party or non-party want to know about it? Starboy

If there is ever fraud, the winning side would rather not hear about it. This goes for those who support the winners as well.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by OberonDOtherseid, 75% of the population are registered democrats? Ok. I guess that means that 75% of those who voted supported Bush, this is not in any way claiming the 75% who are registered democrat voted republican. You do understand that, right?

[SIZE=2]No, not at all. Have you seen this: [/SIZE]

link How could this happen? On the CNBC TV show "Topic A With Tina Brown," several months ago, Howard Dean had filled in for Tina Brown as guest host. His guest was Bev Harris, the Seattle grandmother who started www.blackboxvoting.org from her living room. Bev pointed out that regardless of how votes were tabulated (other than hand counts, only done in odd places like small towns in Vermont), the real "counting" is done by computers. Be they Diebold Opti-Scan machines, which read paper ballots filled in by pencil or ink in the voter's hand, or the scanners that read punch cards, or the machines that simply record a touch of the screen, in all cases the final tally is sent to a "central tabulator" machine. That central tabulator computer is a Windows-based PC. "In a voting system," Harris explained to Dean on national television, "you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at once?" Dean nodded in rhetorical agreement, and Harris continued. "What surprises people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I use. It's just a regular computer." "So," Dean said, "anybody who can hack into a PC can hack into a central tabulator?" Harris nodded affirmation, and pointed out how Diebold uses a program called GEMS, which fills the screen of the PC and effectively turns it into the central tabulator system. "This is the official program that the County Supervisor sees," she said, pointing to a PC that was sitting between them loaded with Diebold's software. Bev then had Dean open the GEMS program to see the results of a test election. They went to the screen titled "Election Summary Report" and waited a moment while the PC "adds up all the votes from all the various precincts," and then saw that in this faux election Howard Dean had 1000 votes, Lex Luthor had 500, and Tiger Woods had none. Dean was winning. "Of course, you can't tamper with this software," Harris noted. Diebold wrote a pretty good program. But, it's running on a Windows PC. So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS software, go back to the normal Windows PC desktop, click on the "My Computer" icon, choose "Local Disk C:," open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder "LocalDB" which, Harris noted, "stands for local database, that's where they keep the votes." Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled "Central Tabulator Votes," which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database program like Excel. In the "Sum of the Candidates" row of numbers, she found that in one precinct Dean had received 800 votes and Lex Luthor had gotten 400. "Let's just flip those," Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers from one cell into the other. "And," she added magnanimously, "let's give 100 votes to Tiger." They closed the database, went back into the official GEMS software "the legitimate way, you're the county supervisor and you're checking on the progress of your election." As the screen displayed the official voter tabulation, Harris said, "And you can see now that Howard Dean has only 500 votes, Lex Luthor has 900, and Tiger Woods has 100." Dean, the winner, was now the loser. Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, "We just edited an election, and it took us 90 seconds." On live national television. (You can see the clip on www.votergate.tv.) And they had left no tracks whatsoever, Harris said, noting that it would be nearly impossible for the election software – or a County election official - to know that the vote database had been altered.