FRAUD!

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Or perhaps the 48% + 3% fraud!

Actually, if you took away just 1.5% from Bushs 51%, add that to Kerrys 48% it would total 49.5% each.

Votes were not merely added to Bushs total, they were switched from Kerry to Bush. That doubles the crime.

[gr8fuldaniel]

I sent Barbara Boxer an Email asking her to challenge the Ohio election results, So she did. I didnt realize I had that kind of influence.
Anyhow here is the response she sent me:

January 7, 2005 Mr. Daniel *********** *********** Sacramento, California 95842-***** Dear Mr. ************: Thank you for writing to express your concerns about the electoral process. I thought that you would be interested in the following statement, which I made on the floor of the United States Senate on January 6: For most of us in the Senate and the House, we have spent our lives fighting for things we believe in always fighting to make our nation better. We have fought for social justice. We have fought for economic justice. We have fought for environmental justice. We have fought for criminal justice. Now we must add a new fight the fight for electoral justice. Every citizen of this country who is registered to vote should be guaranteed that their vote matters, that their vote is counted, and that in the voting booth of their community, their vote has as much weight as the vote of any Senator, any Congressperson, any President, any cabinet member, or any CEO of any Fortune 500 corporation. I am sure that every one of my colleagues Democrat, Republican, and Independent agrees with that statement. That in the voting booth, every one is equal. So now it seems to me that under the Constitution of the United States, which guarantees the right to vote, we must ask: Why did voters in Ohio wait hours in the rain to vote? Why were voters at Kenyon College, for example, made to wait in line until nearly 4 a.m. to vote because there were only two machines for 1300 voters? Why did poor and predominantly African-American communities have disproportionately long waits? Why in Franklin County did election officials only use 2,798 machines when they said they needed 5,000? Why did they hold back 68 machines in warehouses? Why were 42 of those machines in predominantly African- American districts? Why did, in the Columbus area alone, an estimated 5,000 to 10,000 voters leave polling places, out of frustration, without having voted? How many more never bothered to vote after they heard about this? Why is it when 638 people voted at a precinct in Franklin County, a voting machine awarded 4,258 extra votes to George Bush? Thankfully, they fixed it but how many other votes did the computers get wrong? Why did Franklin County officials reduce the number of electronic voting machines in downtown precincts, while adding them in the suburbs? This also led to long lines. In Cleveland, why were there thousands of provisional ballots disqualified after poll workers gave faulty instructions to voters? Because of this, and voting irregularities in so many other places, I am joining with Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones to cast the light of truth on a flawed system which must be fixed now. Our democracy is the centerpiece of who we are as a nation. And it is the fondest hope of all Americans that we can help bring democracy to every corner of the world. As we try to do that, and as we are shedding the blood of our military to this end, we must realize that we lose so much credibility when our own electoral system needs so much improvement. Yet, in the past four years, this Congress has not done everything it should to give confidence to all of our people their votes matter. After passing the Help America Vote Act, nothing more was done. A year ago, Senators Graham, Clinton and I introduced legislation that would have required that electronic voting systems provide a paper record to verify a vote. That paper trail would be stored in a secure ballot box and invaluable in case of a recount. There is no reason why the Senate should not have taken up and passed that bill. At the very least, a hearing should have been held. But it never happened. Before I close, I want to thank my colleague from the House, Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones. Her letter to me asking for my intervention was substantive and compelling. As I wrote to her, I was particularly moved by her point that it is virtually impossible to get official House consideration of the whole issue of election reform, including these irregularities. The Congresswoman has tremendous respect in her state of Ohio, which is at the center of this fight. Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones was a judge for 10 years. She was a prosecutor for 8 years. She was inducted into the Women's Hall of Fame in 2002. I am proud to stand with her in filing this objection. Sincerely, Barbara Boxer United States Senator

[ericsp23]

This is a sad day for America.
It looks like the GOP is going to get away with supressing voter turnout in areas that are predominantly Democratic.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...vote_challenge

COLUMBUS, Ohio - The Ohio Supreme Court on Wednesday dismissed a challenge from voters to the presidential election in light of last week's certification of the electoral vote and the upcoming inauguration. A lawyer for the plaintiffs, a group of 37 voters, had moved Tuesday to drop the lawsuit, saying it is now moot. The high court agreed without comment to dismiss it.

Can we ever trust the results of any election in this country again?

[gr8fuldaniel]

I cant remember who said; "If it isnt in the news, It didnt happen"

AlterNet Covering Elections There, Miscovering Them Here By Danny Schechter, MediaChannel.org. Posted January 11, 2005. With so much rhetoric devoted to voting rights and media mis-coverage of elections, why aren't progressive groups helping to build an alternative media that offers a corrective? Elections are breaking out all over. The Palestinians voted yesterday in a irregularity-plagued day of balloting. In the Ukraine, they needed two elections to get it right. And at month's end Iraqis will go to the polls whether it makes any sense or not, or whether they want to or not. Relentlessly pushing this "demonstration election" on in the name of the big "D" (democracy) has been President Bush even as he concedes it is "hard." ("Hard" is a favorite Bushism first introduced in the Presidential Debate.)

There will be no fair and free elections until the fraudulent ones make the news.
Peter Jennings didnt mention the House Judiciary challenge to the Ohio Election last week. I turned it on even though I dont usually watch ABC News. He wasted plenty of my time showing the pretty exterior of Torture Boy Gonzales. Nothing on the failure of American democracy to count the votes of the peasants.

[Rainbow]

No sufficient exhibits to support a claim on alleged fraud. Arguments meaningless.
G. Bush is sworn in as the U.S. President.

[ericsp23]

The shortage of voting machines in traditinally Democratic precincts compared to the relative abundance of machines in Republican precincts has been well documented in the battleground states where the GOP was in a position to effect the distribution of those machines. The Republican party also placed people in Democratic precincts to challenge every possible vote they could, while no challengers were sent to Republican districts.
This may or may not constitute fraud, but it certainly does not live up to the democratic ideals on which this country is supposed to be based. The supression of opposition voters should not be tolerated by any democratic society.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: ericsp23 The shortage of voting machines in traditinally Democratic precincts compared to the relative abundance of machines in Republican precincts has been well documented in the battleground states where the GOP was in a position to effect the distribution of those machines. The Republican party also placed people in Democratic precincts to challenge every possible vote they could, while no challengers were sent to Republican districts. This may or may not constitute fraud, but it certainly does not live up to the democratic ideals on which this country is supposed to be based. The supression of opposition voters should not be tolerated by any democratic society.

Read this thread main topic, prior answering, please.

Your arguments have no bases, unless you have a sudden need for posting.
G. Bush IS the U.S President.

[ericsp23]

This thread has gone on for 55 pages and has veered off course many times. I have been keeping up with it off and on since it was initiated and I can say that, generally speaking, it is about how the election was conducted, and in that light, my comment was not off topic.
Furthermore, I never claimed the Bush was NOT the president.
I'm sorry that you felt the need to attack me personally rather than dispute my argument.

[gr8fuldaniel]

fraud ( P ) Pronunciation Key (frôd) n. 1) A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain. 2) A piece of trickery; a trick. 3) a) One that defrauds; a cheat. b) One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

All 3 definitions of FRAUD apply to election 2004, including voter suppression which conveys an inaccurate result. Trickery employed to plant an imposter. GW Bush is impersonating a president, again.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Heres a compelling, 6 page letter to Ashcroft, from House of Representatives.
.... Calling for criminal investigation of J. Kenneth Blackwell.

Heres a pretty good summary of the events :

The Democratic Party may be out of power right now, but a state-level Republican official banking on the weakness of the Party's elected officials in Congress may just have made the biggest miscalculation of his political career -- with the penalty being a federal criminal investigation into his conduct during the 2004 presidential election. more....

Heres John Conyers Objection to Ohio Election, on the floor of the Senate (pdf.= 2 pages)

Heres a 28 page (.pdf)letter from Conyers to the FBI calling for federal criminal investigation.

Election 2004 is not over until Blackwell answers The House of Representatives 30 questions.
Its not over kids.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Tell me you dont see anything , just a touch fishy here: (this is one of the same links from my last post) From January 28 2005 letter to the FBI from The House of Representatives(28 page pdf, a bit slow loading with dial-up modem...but worth it):

(Top of page 2) Several volunteers who observed the recount in Clermont County, Ohio, prepared affidavits alleging serious tampering, violations of state and federal law, and possible fraud. They assert that some ballots clearly marked for Kerry/Edwards were counted for Bush/Cheney. Specifically, during the Dec. 14 2004 hand recount, volunteers noticed stickers covering the Kerry/Edwards oval, whereas the Bush/Cheney oval was “colored in.” Beneath the stickers, the Kerry/Edwards oval was selected. These Opti-Scan ballots were then fed into the machines after the hand recount, and counted for Bush/Cheney.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel The more I think about this, the less I think anything good will come of it. Where are the demands for answers? Why did they take a vote and resolve this with no real debate and a hearing ordered that would result in the arrest for FELONY accusations. WTF? Who is the culprit? Is it OK for everyone to commit felonies now? I guess so. If its OK to steal votes its ok to steal money, right?

I believe there is some actual documentation as to just who these treasonous fraudsters are.


1) Diebold promiised the election to the Fedayeen Bush. Diebold is an Ohio Company. Coincidence?

2) Anheuser Bush funded the (CPD) http://www.debates.org/ Commision on Presidental Debates, which, through trickery, prevented all third party candidates from debating in the big debates. I guess Anheuser Bush thinks two "flavors" is enough for President.


These entities have the cooperation of several universities to hold the debates in an invitation only format, conveniently forgeting to invite everybody but the two establishment poster boys. ( I misspelled boys as bots the first time, and actually considered leaving it that way)


Is anybody else out there boycotting these criminals?

[dolzaina]

Quote by: lspiderl wow u know i was gonna respond to this but this it dawned on me your all hopelessly partisan the rebublicans could have jesus and budha as there president and vice presidential canidates and youd still try to prove how evil they "are"

THANK YOU! While I think Bush is an [obscenity] and I would never vote for him if I could, I would never vote for Kerry either, because I disagree with both of them on the issues (most of the time). The thing in this election that I found so ridiculous (after the candidates) was that so many people were blinded by either an extreme hate of Bush or an extreme hate of Kerry that polarized almost everyone. For instance, my father (who suffers from both Parkinsons and a rarer disease which pulls his neck to the side) supported Bush simply because he didn't like Kerry, even though my father needs (and wants) stem cell research that Bush has stopped. On the otherside were people who insisted that this entire election was more about "getting Bush out" and not getting Kerry in.
-charlie

[Matrixxx]

Bush or no Bush the united states is the best country to live in on the planet no matter how much whining and chatter comes from the sore losers who wanted him out, if you don't believe it why not ask yourself what the millions of illegal immigrants think.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Matrixxx Bush or no Bush the united states is the best country to live in on the planet no matter how much whining and chatter comes from the sore losers who wanted him out,

Have you considered the fact that a lot of people wanted him out because he and those like him are CHANGING this country for the worse? When you have been around long enough to see how the country WAS and have watched the slow but steady decline at the hands of the unscrupulous and the stupid, you tend to fear the further damage done by certain types of politicians. Unfortunately, Bush is one of those politicians, although he is far from alone.
You seem to think it is ALL about Bush. It is actually all about a political mindset and he just happens to represent it at this time.

if you don't believe it why not ask yourself what the millions of illegal immigrants think.

Personally I don't give a damn what lawbreakers think, but the fact they come HERE means we are better than where they came from. Maybe the best and maybe the easiest to GET to! I'm thinking if I could be an illegal immigrant to the U.K. I'd have a GREAT life, especially since I wouldn't be paying taxes.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Good Point Scribbler

OK, Here we go!
I love it!
Conyers introduced this yesterday:
(This is the 3rd paragraph of a single page .pdf document)

CONYERS INTRODUCES THE “VOTING OPPORTUNITY AND TECHNOLOGY ENHANCEMENT RIGHTS ACT” As a result, the VOTER Act will provide for a uniform Federal write-in/absentee ballot; require states to provide for a verifiable audit trail; ensure that provisional ballots cast anywhere in a state are counted; eliminate disparities in the allocation of voting machines and poll workers among a state's precincts; mandate early voting and election day registration procedures; protect against improper purging of registration lists in federal elections; provide for a study regarding making election day a public holiday; ease voter registration requirements; allow voter identification by written affidavit; study eliminating partisan election officials from administering federal elections; enhance training for election officials; require the use of publicly available open source software in voting machines; provide uniform standards for vote recounts; prohibit voting machine companies from engaging in political activities; and enhance legal protections against voter intimidation and threats.

I am one happy camper. Now they have something on a Federal level that can be enforced.
This is a huge step for election rights.

Now the only thing we need to be concerned about:
If losers cant rig elections, they may just declare them moot, or "Quaint".

To stay in power, they be desperate enough to issue an Executive Order. By then we could be in World War mode in our crusade for corporate profit and blood orgies.

But today I am going to celebrate:

V OTING
O PPORTUNITY AND
T ECHNOLOGY
E NHANCEMENT
R IGHTS
ACT
Its liberating to live in the solution.
Thats only possible after we accept there is a problem.

[Scribbler1]

Sounds good, but I fear your celebration may be premature.

I'll wait to see if it passes, or if it is simply buried, never to be heard of again.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Fortunately we have a few Dems right now that are standing up to the fraudsters. Anyone who opposes this VOTER Act should be executed as a traitor, forthwith, or at least tattoo their forehead for ID. How could even a Repub oppose this with a clear conscience?
I guess we need to get Senators to sign on. From both sides. This is an American issue, not a partisan issue.

[Matrixxx]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Have you considered the fact that a lot of people wanted him out because he and those like him are CHANGING this country for the worse? When you have been around long enough to see how the country WAS and have watched the slow but steady decline at the hands of the unscrupulous and the stupid, you tend to fear the further damage done by certain types of politicians. Unfortunately, Bush is one of those politicians, although he is far from alone. You seem to think it is ALL about Bush. It is actually all about a political mindset and he just happens to represent it at this time. Personally I don't give a damn what lawbreakers think, but the fact they come HERE means we are better than where they came from. Maybe the best and maybe the easiest to GET to! I'm thinking if I could be an illegal immigrant to the U.K. I'd have a GREAT life, especially since I wouldn't be paying taxes.

I am 53 years old. I think that gives me enough vested time to draw my own conclusions, thank you.

I wonder why the illegal immigrants who come to this country by the tens of thousands don't opt for England? I know this will come with replies of extreme ad hominem and remarks of "party line boot lapper" retorts, but there is more than one side to any coin. When YOU have been around to see the world as it WAS in retrospect to REALITY, then and only then can you understand where I come from. America is the greatest country to live, always was. When these people get their free "get out of jail" pass under Bush's new deal for illegals, do you suppose they will work for the cash and leave for England? I doubt it.

That my, friend, says it all.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Matrixxx I am 53 years old. I think that gives me enough vested time to draw my own conclusions, thank you.

Right you are grampa. You must have seen SO much more than I have because of that ONE year you have on me. :)
Maybe we should have a beer together and swap "good old days"stories.

I wonder why the illegal immigrants who come to this country by the tens of thousands don't opt for England?

This may come as a surprise, but its because most of them are MEXICANS!!!

I know this will come with replies of extreme ad hominem and remarks of "party line boot lapper" retorts, but there is more than one side to any coin. When YOU have been around to see the world as it WAS in retrospect to REALITY, then and only then can you understand where I come from.

Since I'm a handsome and youthful 52 (snappy dresser too) I can understand what you mean and I agree up to a point. My #^&*$#^ age does come in handy for its öbvious "first person perspective benefit, but there's a LOT more to understanding than "being there". Intelligence and the ability to understand comes in heavily too, and these are not the sole domain of the fogeyfied. If it were, no one here could discuss WW2, American (or world) History, or anything else that happened before most of us were born, and that includes you and I.

America is the greatest country to live, always was.

Out of curiosity, how many OTHER countries have you lived in? Not that I agree or disagree, but what do you use for comparison?

When these people get their free "get out of jail" pass under Bush's new deal for illegals, do you suppose they will work for the cash and leave for England? I doubt it.

It would take a lot more cash than they likely have at any one time, I'm betting. Also, a lot of them send a good deal of their money back to family in Mexico. (rmnunez, got any stats?). And I think I can safely say the U.K. isn't the cheapest place to live, for the unskilled immigrant or the Yank tourist. (need the Brits to weigh in on this)