FRAUD!

[Osborn F Enready]

Election fraud not possible you say? Sour grapes...you say? Elections can't be stolen here you say? In 2000? In 2004?

It is entirely plausible that george w. bush is not the elected president of our country.

This isn't sour grapes. It is...

...a reality show.

If election fraud is something that you are in favor of...then don't read this.

bush won the popular vote you say? Who gives a shit? The electoral college is how we elect presidents in the United States. That's what I was told after the non-election in 2000 by bush supporters.

The story is taking on validity...and it is growing legs. Watch it grow. It's in the mainstream now.

It happened in Florida in 2000 also. But maybe Ohio really got caught.

No...this isn't sour grapes. This is serious stuff.

You don't care?

Oh...so then why are we fighting for free elections in Iraq if you don't care about having them here?! Why have about 1200 of our soldiers died? For freedom you say? Bullshit. If this story doesn't matter to you...if you're gonna blow it off...then bring the troops home.

Free elections in Iraq...my God...we don't have them here!

Our democracy...our nation...is at stake.

That's all.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/


By the way Oberon, looks like I have to eat some words, since it IS BEING COVERED by the NETWORK MEDIA.

Do you hear me now?

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid Who here is bitching that a recount is wanted by the left? You have selective eyesight because I never bitched about it, Scribbler. If anything all I hear is the right telling the left to quit the snivelling but nothing about having a big problem with the recount. I'm afraid it's yet another attempt at spin rather than accepting that your own party is the cry babies, Scribbler. It doesn't matter how the recount is done as long as it is done and done faily and accurately. That was my point before, what way is going to appease the left? paper ballots that weren't good enough in 2000 or electronic count that isn't good enough now?

I suppose you don't call THIS bitching then:

If you guys are going to make excuses for why it is going to fail no matter what you should just say that up front and tell us you just want to complain and bitch about it and nothing will ever quell the thirst for republican blood.

You have it all worked out, don't you. In your infinite wisdom you decree the recount won't work and then you blame the liberals for its failure, as if it has already failed, because the liberals wont accept the results. But of course the dificulties getting the recount in the first place go unnoticed.
Here's an unusual idea, why don't the right wingers just back off ENTIRELY, allow an impartial group to count the damn votes opr whatever they need to do and shut up about it until its done. And mostly, stop making predictions and basing your argument on them as though they are factual.
I think you have said you support a fair recount, just to clear the record, as I do. But bear in mind the powers that be, or more accurately the powers that WON will not lie down and let a recount happen if it is indeed rigged. Why can't you accept the fact that if fraud has occurred the perpetrators will always resist being exposed or their fraud corrected. Is it so hard to think that if there were enough instances of "irregularities" to even be reported in the mainstream media to warrant an investigation then SOMEBODY would want it to fail? Not the people who demand a recount but the people who committed the crime in the first place.
I'm not saying this is all the case, but I am saying that IF there is the possibility of fraud, and it seems pretty likely, then there would be a REASON to be concerned about the recount. I don't hear anything from the right wing supporting an IMPARTIAL recount. But I DO hear them whining about the other sides' concerns.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Only a racist nazi would not have a problem with this kind of fraud.
The Bush Junta are slime for disenfrachising (a la Hitler) by race. Shameful.

[bullshitdetector]

Quote by: Scribbler You don't call this bitching?

No I don't call it bitching, I asked you a very pointed question, what method will appease the left, Scribbler. You were the one who came back at me with "Well it depends on how it's done" which leaves a wide birth of excuses to never hear the end of this, doesn't it? What is the most promising, most desirable angle, method, practice, whatever of getting this recount done that the left will accept as fair and reasonable? I just want to know. I never said anything wouldn't work, I said the left complained about the paper ballots in 2000 so they came up with the electronic process which is now not acceptable to the left. Do you read what people are posting, Scribbler?

Quote by: Scribbler You have it all worked out, don't you. In your infinite wisdom you decree the recount won't work and then you blame the liberals for its failure, as if it has already failed, because the liberals wont accept the results. But of course the dificulties getting the recount in the first place go unnoticed.

Again, do you read what people post to you, Scribbler, I never said anything about the recount not working, so I have nothing worked out. What would you like for me to do to ease the pain of frustration you feel getting the recount done that will get you to understand I have no problem with it, draw blood? Bleed and sacrifice my first born child?

Quote by: Scribbler Here's an unusual idea, why don't the right wingers just back off ENTIRELY, allow an impartial group to count the damn votes opr whatever they need to do and shut up about it until its done. And mostly, stop making predictions and basing your argument on them as though they are factual.

Again, I haven't made a prediction, I haven't done one friggen thing, what gives you the right to tell the people on the right to shut up, Scribbler? Another form of leftist democracy? I am not basing any argument other than what you have blatantly displayed in your post, you're losing it completely….going right over the edge and you're not even reading what is in front of you.

Quote by: Scribbler I think you have said you support a fair recount, just to clear the record, as I do. But bear in mind the powers that be, or more accurately the powers that WON will not lie down and let a recount happen if it is indeed rigged. Why can't you accept the fact that if fraud has occurred the perpetrators will always resist being exposed or their fraud corrected.

Who said I didn't accept that both sides have raving ranting emoting lunatics spewing propaganda? Why don't you accept that the left does the same thing? Why don't you accept that the left has already made up it's argument to continue this blubbering no matter what the outcome?

Quote by: Scribbler Is it so hard to think that if there were enough instances of "irregularities" to even be reported in the mainstream media to warrant an investigation then SOMEBODY would want it to fail? Not the people who demand a recount but the people who committed the crime in the first place.

Why are you asking me rhetorical questions, is that your basis for contending the media is controlled? Get real, the media would be in a frenzy reporting that, they hate Bush and you know it as well as the rest of the world.

Quote by: Scribber I'm not saying this is all the case, but I am saying that IF there is the possibility of fraud, and it seems pretty likely, then there would be a REASON to be concerned about the recount. I don't hear anything from the right wing supporting an IMPARTIAL recount. But I DO hear them whining about the other sides' concerns.

Concerns are fine, rhetoric and endless negativaty hosed down in apathy is another. The right doesn't lose sleep over it because they may be confident that the count is valid, if not then that’s their tough luck isn't it? Can you wrap your mind around the fact that there are those who don't believe as you do, and they feel just as justified arguing their point of view just like you do? It looks as if you are getting your recount, are you going to accept it and move on after it is done or is there never going to be an end to this blubbering?

[Anniee]

Who said I didn't accept that both sides have raving ranting emoting lunatics spewing propaganda? Why don't you accept that the left does the same thing? Why don't you accept that the left has already made up it's argument to continue this blubbering no matter what the outcome?

Not only that but they'd determined way beforehand that no matter what, they were going to challenge the counts. The fact that they're challenging it on grounds of electronic votes which they themselves demanded makes no difference; it was GOING to be challenged and it WILL be challenged for the next four years, and probably beyond.

Why bother even discussing it with them anymore? It's so ridiculous it defies the imagination.

[gr8fuldaniel]

I sent this request to CSPAN, because they dont seem to have this scheduled for tomorrow:

events@c-span.org Please please please, televise House Judiciary Committee, tomorrow, This is his invitation,House Judiciary Invites Ohio Sec of State Blackwell, Wednesday 10:00 AM Dec. 8, which is a supplement to This, request for answers to election fraud in Ohio. I want to watch him squirm and sweat This could change the course of history (for the better) Please televise this, it’s the ONLY story you need to televise, Thank You

I think if enough good Americans expressed a desire to see this, They would HAVE to air it.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: Anniee Not only that but they'd determined way beforehand that no matter what, they were going to challenge the counts. The fact that they're challenging it on grounds of electronic votes which they themselves demanded makes no difference; it was GOING to be challenged and it WILL be challenged for the next four years, and probably beyond. Why bother even discussing it with them anymore? It's so ridiculous it defies the imagination.

Yea, I know, old Jesse Jackson stood behind his boy Kerry and said "Whatever the outcome, we will accept the voters will with no regret". Yea, lying son of a bitch the ever was, they were so damned sure Kerry had it in the bag and wanted to come off above it all and be the bigger man, until WHAM, the gauntlet of reality hit their asses and they lost. Then they just pulled the old same old and started the crying.

[Anniee]

Well so much for the "high turnout equals Democrat win" theory. That worked some years ago but not anymore <shrug> It's been pretty consistent conservative wins for quite some time now, and now even the record turnout theory is demolished. I honestly didn't know it would go that way, either. Guess I bought into the rhetoric too.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Annie, Well so much for the "high turnout equals Democrat win" theory.

Kerry did win...........

It just isnt official yet.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Kerry did win...........It just isnt official yet.

Wishful thinking, but hey, it's your dream to dream I guess. :)

[Anniee]

Omg; I just checked out that MSN link...wtf? Is THAT supposed to help the case that there was some kind of election fraud? Holy hell, it doesn't even begin to support such a notion, though the blog in question HOPES there was fraud...

Some quotes:

When Mr. Madsen’s internet piece positing a $29,000,000 payoff to “fix” the election made the rounds, I wrote here that the journalism didn’t live up to many minimum standards, and the logic, even fewer (somebody promised to pay off people to rig the election computers, gave at least some of them the full history of how the money was to be laundered — and then didn’t ante up?). Mr. Madsen followed up with another piece in which he claimed to have an actual copy of the check. A single election-fixing check for $29.6 million. One-stop shopping for the political scandal of the millennium. Now, he is back with an even longer, more intricate story that drags in NASA, Lockheed Martin, Brazilian computer maintenance technicians, Nigerian scammers, and a reputed affidavit that fingers a Florida congressman.

And pink elephants on parade too? Nigerian scams, those are the people who email you and try to get you to telephone them because they're due to inherit money and they need someone in the states to pick up the money, then you'll share it. Then you get a $40 phone bill for the call and never hear another word. Check it out here: http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/nigeria.asp Their BB has a special page for different versions of this scam. Now what the phuck does this have to do with election fraud? LMAO! The above list reads like someone's disjointed nonsequitorial nightmare - black helicopters! Nigerian scammers! Chat room trolls! Da' Boogeyman!

The problem is that the amazing check for $29.6 million, whose authenticity was the cornerstone of Madsen’s first two stories, not only turns out to be a fraud, but now, its fraudulence becomes one of the cornerstone’s of Madsen’s newest story.

Oopsie.

As he told the Pacifica radio station (KPFT) in Houston Sunday, “Yeah, it turns out that the $29 million check, although a valuable clue, was a fake. But it looks like the people who released the check did so as a way to say ‘hey, look here, don’t look at the check, look who’s behind it, look around it, follow the money that these people have been involved with…’”

"The papers are fraudulent, the papers are forged, but the INFORMATION in them is absolutely true! I swear it is!"

How the hell do people build up monster conspiracy theories around...nothing?

[OberonDOtherseid]

I told you it's hard to fight wet dreams. Anniee,. and if you come here that is what you are gonna be doing. They believe it, they actually believe this stuff. What can ya do?

[Anniee]

All I can do is shake my head and say my. god. What have we come to? It's like perpetual children stomping their feet and screaming that they won't they won't they WON'T eat their broccoli. I just...there are no words, Oberon.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Yes, one minute the military are sniping baby raping nasty pigs and the next they are poor poor victims of a tyranny who only wanted to stay home and defend their country, and now grandma is being DRAFTED.

Yea, I think it's kinda fun watching the logic of the left sway like swinging meat in a whore house, it just defies all that is logical and practical.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Anniee Not only that but they'd determined way beforehand that no matter what, they were going to challenge the counts. The fact that they're challenging it on grounds of electronic votes which they themselves demanded makes no difference; it was GOING to be challenged and it WILL be challenged for the next four years, and probably beyond. Why bother even discussing it with them anymore? It's so ridiculous it defies the imagination.

I've asked you before to no avail and I'm asking again. You state these things I have bolded as they are facts and I would like to see a source on this.

It was reported by Popular Science ( I posted this a while back) that the unreliable machines were pushed into service as quickly as they were because the government was footing the bill to the tune of almost 100 mil (I'll have to find the article) IF the machines were in place and ready to roll by September.

[Osborn F Enready]

Annie, Oberon, obviously neither of you READ what I had posted before.

ONCE AGAIN,

BEFORE I STATED THE MEDIA WOULD NEVER TOUCH IT.......

NOW THEY DID, WITH AN ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT THE ONE SOURCE OF BAD INFO THEY FOUND.....

THEN I POSTED TO SAY, WOW, LOOK I WAS WRONG, THEY ACTUALLY COVERED IT.....





DOES THE BIG TYPE HELP YOU TO READ?

[gr8fuldaniel]

CSPAN will be covering the House Judiciary forum on
Voting Irregularities in Ohio, this morning.

Kenneth Blackwell was invited.

Its on at at: Wed Dec. 8th, 10:00 AM ET.

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:808...d=211969260436

[gr8fuldaniel]

I posted this on the previous page of this thread:

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel I am giving you guys this before it hits mainstream Media, so you can accept this sworn/Notorized Affidavit from Brad Blog, or dont. I didnt want to not show this, just because it isnt in the papers yet. I am sure I will hear it from the "Source Nazis" Judge for yourself, this guy is putting a lot on the line. In stunning revelations set to rock the vote from Tallahassee to Capitol Hill -- and perhaps even a bit further up Pennsylvania Avenue -- a Florida computer programmer has now made remarkable claims in a detailed sworn affidavit, signed this morning and obtained exclusively by The BRAD BLOG! - Affidavit in .PDF format - (Generously hosted by Raw Story!) The programmer claims that he designed and built a "vote rigging" software program at the behest of then Florida Congressman, now U.S. Congressman, Republican Tom Feeney of Florida's 24th Congressional District. Edit to add: Brad Blog is totally SWAMPED, today because of this breaking story. You may have to hit "Refresh" ten times (or more) to get in. Buzzflash broke the story just a while ago .

Then, a couple of posts later I raised a suspicion of the 4th page "looking different", so I asked Brad about it:

gr8fuldaniel said... Hey Brad keep up the good work, Fight the Good Fight! Hey, just one question about Curtis' affidavit: Why is the font different on the last page (the page that is signed and notorized) from the other 3 pages? We have so much solid evidence of fraud, we dont need any Karl Rovian (i.e. Rathergate) shenanigans to weaken our case. I take this very seriously and this is a suspicion that is likely to arise. 3:19 PM Anonymous said... Could it be that the first four pages are copies but he was allowed to keep the last one because it had the signatures? I dunno stuff like that. 3:30 PM Anonymous said... Brad, nice continued work. Some (including myself) threw in the towel quite a bit prematurely. You're efforts to bring this story to light are much appreciated. -Vance 3:48 PM Anonymous said... The last page is so different - the difference is not due to it being a photocopy. It is an entirely different format. Very smelly. 3:48 PM Goose3five said... If you need mirror's I can host files for you as well. Let me know if you need it. 4:05 PM BradF said... Thanks for the mirror hosts, guys. Much appreciated. I think we're okay for now, and it looks like CrooksandLiars.com has posted the audio over there. As to the last page of the affidavit, which I'm *hoping* to include info on in a FAQ on all this stuff if I can ever finish it! (Has been pretty busy around here since Monday!)...Here's the reason: The doc was black and white except for the purple ink in the signature on the final page. Apparently the person who scanned it, had the scanner set on an "Automatic" setting and the scanning program apparently kicked into Color mode only when it got to the last page. I was concerned that folks would get distracted by that, so I asked to have it rescanned and resent to me for that reason. It was resent again, but the same problem occured again. The person couldn't figure out how to change the scan settings properly, and then had to go, so that's the version I had to go with. The *original* unscanned version (or copies of it) have been given to all the folks in Congress, etc. who need to see it. These aren't 40 year documents here, and I doubt Clint Curtis would have gone on the air if the document was a fake to say he wrote it! I'm not even sure what the "fake" suggestion implies. That he *didn't* write it or something? I'm not sure what would be gained from that. Plus, I saw the WORD version of the document before it was printed, signed, notarized and scanned etc. In other words, it's real. Whether the info in it is true, is what I'd rather see folks investigating (which they are). Thanks for the various kind words, guys. Has been quite a week!

Fair enough, sounds good to me.

[Osborn F Enready]

Great post Daniel, and thanks for keeping us updated. I have been trying to keep up with this as it goes, but as you know, with the media cover-up it is getting harder and harder.

I was just contacted last night by the Green Party to help with the recount in Ohio. I don't know what position if any I will be filling, but I will also try to keep you updated via PM or E-Mail, if not right here.

The people need to be informed, fraud is provable, now we just have to go through some of the work to get it in the public eye, since the media is not doing its job.

Keep the faith, reform the system, and let liberty and justice prevail!

[bullshitdetector]

I have noticed one thing with the critical left is that the media is not to be trusted because it is being controlled by the government until it says something that fits their agenda. On this thread it is purposely hiding the facts because it's oppressed and won't cover the facts. On the Rummy thread if the media had control over the questions being asked that is not the issue, it is whether the govt didn't want the questions asked. Which one is it, can the critical left every make up their mind?