so how did the (R)s win?

[harumscarum]

I am trying to think how and why the ®s won. I am not trying to be partisan or hold prejudices, I am just curious on how they won the votes. So my thoughts are :(when I refer to Bush I am implying the Bush team and vice versa for Kerry).

1) Bush knew that he could not run a race on the realities of the Iraq or "War on Terror". They really generalized the actions and made it to be more of a philosophical idea. e.g. Freedom for the Iraqi People, Liberation from a brutal dictator. I think this allowed a lot of people to say Iraq is better off and Bush did a great thing. He was also able to strike a lot of fear in people that we could be attacked (red alert, random Cheney remarks, tapes, ect)

2) Economy-glass half full. I think there was enough good information to where either candidate could spin it their way. What is reality? Beats me but I think either side could give enough information to make their supporters happy.

3) Gay people. This was a great move by Bush when he tried to get the amendment passed through. He knew it wouldn’t pass but it really put forth the message that marriage is a unions between a man and woman(thus the "values" buzzword cnn is using)

4) Religion. Bush made no secret he was a man of faith and looked to God for guidance. I really never saw this in Kerry.

5) Its got to be black or white. Bush really stood up for many things and made his positions known. Kerry was more objective on ideas and I do not think that this kind of thinking can be comprehended by many people.

I guess that Bush realized who the majority of voters are and really pushed towards their ideals. I am just curious how psychologically Bush was able to get the majority of voters.

[Gorgo]

I haven't finished reading this, but this seems to break down who voted for whom and gives you an idea of why.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...=41&ItemID=6571

[harumscarum]

Forgot to say thanks for the link, it is exactly what I was looking for. I am wondering where the 40% of the populace that didn't vote stands. Out of the 60% that did vote we have 30% for Bush and just fewer than 30% who didn't. This of course means that more people did not vote then support the President. I am wondering why everyone keeps talking about the new "values" America when only 1/3 of America supports Bush.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by harumscarum, I am not trying to be partisan or hold prejudices,

A couple of your ideas where seem a bit partisan and/or prejudice....

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by harum, so how did the R's win?

The primary reason was they rigged the election. Without that, Kerry is our president.

Next, Why did anyone vote for Bush? Fear and Hate were prime motivating factors. Fear and hate of queers, terrorists and abortion.

1) Homos
Fear and hate of homos (calling them queers may sound like I am prejudice and homosexuals is to long, gay is inaccurate, I will call them Homo's)
Even though these immoral people of the religous right (wrong?)claim religion is their strength, they are full of fear and prejudice. They think what a homo does with his dick will somehow depreciate somebody elses marriage. This cant be proven but hate doesnt need rational thought to perpetuate itself. Its mostly a lynch mob mentality that gave Bush any votes at all. The churchs oppression of homos is exactly like the witch hunts at Salem. The church creates enemies for you to hate because this gives you a nice cozy feeling of family. The Church has been guilty of the most horrendous crimes in history. Read Fox's book of Martyrs to see what butchers they really are. skip to

ChapterXXI Persecutions of the French Protestants in the South of France, During the Years 1814 and 1820

Church and State make strange bedfellows, always have. Look how they are party to massacres throughout history, shameful. All they need is a scapegoat. The Nazis used Jews. Bush used Homos. So grab a torch and join the lynching, its kinda like sport.

2) Terrorists
If you are afraid, you will be drawn to the one who promises security.
Even though that person may endanger you more than protect you. How? Starting pre-emptive wars against nations that were no threat to you or anyone else. Sending your sons and daughters and nieces and brothers and sisters to die for a war of profit. None of that profit will trickle down in case you were having illusions of vast treasure and cheap gas.
Terrorism is easily staged and people really dont want to believe their own government would stoop so low as to carry out an attack on her own people to generate public support war on an imaginary enemy.

3) Abortion
Bush is not "Pro-Life"
This is from a NY Times article that has been archived, but you can read it here:

Under Reported Bush's partial-birth abortion ban has been overturned by the courts. This is great news for Bush's election team, because it means he can still campaign on the abortion issue (as there's still "work to be done") without actually having done anything pro-life. Supposedly pro-life Republicans have held the presidency for 20 of the 31 years of Roe v. Wade, and nothing's happened. If Roe v. Wade were ever overturned, Republicans wouldn't have anything left to campaign on. It is to the Republicans' political advantage to perpetuate Roe v. Wade. Of course, the vast majority of Republicans at the state and especially local level are well-meaning, but I don't believe that to be the case at the national level, especially the higher echelon.

The bloodier the better is his motto. How many deaths can be directly attributed to GW Bush? Worldwide. Impossible to count, eh? Pro Life my ass.

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The primary reason was they rigged the election. Without that, Kerry is our president.[/b]

Any support for this outrageous accusation?

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The churchs oppression of homos is exactly like the witch hunts at Salem. [/b]

"Witch hunts" is a buzzword created by the left wing, anti-Christian public school system and media. Only a handful of individuals were actually executed for their crimes.

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, The Church has been guilty of the most horrendous crimes in history.

Are you talking about the Catholic Church when you say "Church?" That is mixing apples and oranges in the context of discussing Protestants such as those in colonial America. Also, the Inquisitions is another totally overblown buzzword created by the public schools and media. Islam was chopping people's body parts and heads off sinces its inception and Islam forced Europe to respond with the Crusades.

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, The Nazis used Jews. Bush used Homos. So grab a torch and join the lynching, its kinda like sport.

Why evidence do you have to support that Bush is scapgoating Homos for the problems in America? All Bush is suggesting is that Homos stop their assault on families by stopping the insane notion that Homos and Lesbians should be able to marry. It makes marriage meaningless. What would stop a dog lover from marrying a German Sheppard? Both parties love each other, why not?

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, Starting pre-emptive wars against nations that were no threat to you or anyone else.

Afghanistan and Iraq were threats. Every intelligence agency on earth agreed to that before US military action. Hindsight, did the US prepare for the many Muslim Terrorists who emerged after the fall of Saddam? Probably not since it is hard to believe how ignorant and brainwashed Muslims are. In fact, many liberals are still in denial of the nature of Islam.

<!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel,@
Terrorism is easily staged and people really dont want to believe their own government would stoop so low as to carry out an attack on her own people to generate public support war on an imaginary enemy. [/quote]

Do you believe Dick Cheney orchestrated 9/11? Do you believe that a missile hit the Pentagon? The fact is that anyone who believes such insanity is believing in an imaginary enemy. The reality so clear to any rational observer of current events is that Muslim Terrorists are inflicting their Jihad around the world. To understand that reality one has to stop reading the many insane anti-Bush conspiracy sites and start to read Google News with keywords "Muslim beheading" and that type of thing.

<!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel,
If Roe v. Wade were ever overturned, Republicans wouldn't have anything left to campaign on. .[/quote]

On the contrary, "pro-life" is a response to left wing liberals "pro-choice" mantra and liberal distiguish themselves consistantly that they support a "woman's right to choose." The mantra is strange since tearing out an unborn child seems like hypocrisy if the child is also a woman, but that is what the liberal candidates invariably chant.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Snouter,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snouter,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The primary reason was they rigged the election. Without that, Kerry is our president.[/b] Any support for this outrageous accusation? [color=blue]Tons, click Here [/color] Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, The churchs oppression of homos is exactly like the witch hunts at Salem. "Witch hunts" is a buzzword created by the left wing, anti-Christian public school system and media. Only a handful of individuals were actually executed for their crimes. [color=blue] Over the course of world history, people wrongly persecuted numbers in the billions. Jesus himself was one of them. Seems like Christians would hav a better grasp of wrongful persecution.[/color] Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, The Church has been guilty of the most horrendous crimes in history. Are you talking about the Catholic Church when you say "Church?" That is mixing apples and oranges in the context of discussing Protestants such as those in colonial America. Also, the Inquisitions is another totally overblown buzzword created by the public schools and media. Islam was chopping people's body parts and heads off sinces its inception and Islam forced Europe to respond with the Crusades. [color=blue] When I say Church, I cant single out the Catholic church, but yes, they are one of the bloodiest. IMO. Bushs god, tells him to kill tens of thousands of people. Nobody questions that? Is Bush an Ambassador of the Methodist Religion? Shouldnt we all, if we are members of a church, act as Ambassadors of our church? [/color] Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, The Nazis used Jews. Bush used Homos. So grab a torch and join the lynching, its kinda like sport. Why evidence do you have to support that Bush is scapgoating Homos for the problems in America? All Bush is suggesting is that Homos stop their assault on families by stopping the insane notion that Homos and Lesbians should be able to marry. It makes marriage meaningless. What would stop a dog lover from marrying a German Sheppard? Both parties love each other, why not? [color=blue]Seems kinda strange but if somebody wants to do that and their church says OK, why not?. I think that when a church harms people the government should step in. There are weird rituals in most religion. Otherwise, The Church and State should not be married. That would be an abomination[/color] Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, Starting pre-emptive wars against nations that were no threat to you or anyone else. Afghanistan and Iraq were threats. Every intelligence agency on earth agreed to that before US military action. [color=blue] Wrong. The UN didnt. I didnt either, The intel was debunked. Chalabi was an Iranian spy, we knew that. The yellow cake from niger was debunked. It was all a pack of lies and manipulated [/color] <!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel,@ Terrorism is easily staged and people really dont want to believe their own government would stoop so low as to carry out an attack on her own people to generate public support war on an imaginary enemy.

Do you believe Dick Cheney orchestrated 9/11? Do you believe that a missile hit the Pentagon?
[color=blue] a) wouldnt put it past him b) wouldnt rule it out[/color]
<!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel,
If Roe v. Wade were ever overturned, Republicans wouldn't have anything left to campaign on. .[/quote]
On the contrary, "pro-life" is a response to left wing liberals "pro-choice" .... [/b][/quote] [color=blue]Do you want to bring back coat hanger abortions in alleys, performed by junkies? You think victims of rape and incest should just toughen up and live with it? You think a woman shouldnt be allowed to choose between between her life and the fetus if that situation came up? [/color]

[Dieval]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, [color=blue] a) wouldnt put it past him b) wouldnt rule it out[/color]

Why does it always come down to conspiracy theories with you, gr8?

[gr8fuldaniel]

I was honest with him. The official story doesnt hold water.

[Starboy]

Originally posted by Snouter, "Witch hunts" is a buzzword created by the left wing, anti-Christian public school system and media.

Snouter, are you serious?

Starboy

[rcne]

He with the most votes wins. End of story.

Besides I thought conspiracy theories belonged in the 'Butterface'.

Right - Republician Nazis. HaHa Ha

[crayola]

The evidence (IMO) points to the conspiracy of the Bush Regime to orchestrate a war, a war specifically aimed to secure wealth of the Bush family. Theft of oil reserves was mandatory for the Bush family to remain filthy rich, and the only way this could be achieved was through force. Force was enacted through fear and fear needed a reason in deceit.

Haters of Saddam, significant Iraqi's, were waiting for their call-up to take over the presidency of Iraq. Some were in waiting in Washington state, others in DC. Others elsewhere. All were partners with the Bush family. All were guaranteed positions of prominence in Iraq. All were taught "democracy" according to the Bush Doctrine.

Americans had no clue to this "training" of Iraqi's in the U.S. as the news media refused to disclose this part of the conspiracy.

Israeli computer analyists knew the U.S. would be bombed and did not report this to the news media which in turn could report it to American people. But Perez was "on-the-spot" at MSNBC as Linda Vesture asked him "Do you think it was Ben Ladin"? Do you think it was Ben Ladin"? Did Israel know before it happened?" Perez stated that Israel knew beforehand but did not know it the information was valid. Linda Vesture continued her ranting about Ben Ladin. Later in the news cast it was determined "Ben Ladin" was the evildoer who had plotted the destruction of the trade towers.

The advantages of this event fell into the lap of Dubya. The perfect scare had been realized. The Muslims were coming, the Muslims were coming, and to take freedom from Americans. But Bush sidestepped a bit and began his protective yelping about Israel. it was America's duty to protect Israel at all costs. But America did not know, and especially the ignorant Right Wingers, that Israel had no need of being protected then or now. But away the Bush Regime went on their hero game of rescuing Israel before those big bad "evildoer" Muslims could invade Jerusalem and push Israel into the sea.

Bush then grew tired of that excuse and went on to other more "perfected" excuses, such as, "Saddam has stiffed the world". Had Saddam been playing poker?? Saddam was then configured to be the evildoer of all time, even when Rumpsfeld was shaking his hand a few years back. Saddam was "a threat" to the Iraqi's, and then Saddam was a threat to America. Israel was put on the backburner and probably because Nutenyahoo had stated that Iraq was not a threat to Israel. And everyone knew (except maybe the Religious Right Wingers) that Israel was a full nuclear power all its own and needed no protection, not even from the American bully's in the Bush Regime. WOW.

So it came down to fear of Muslims. And those "Liberals". Even when debating with Kerry, Bush made it clear that Kerry was a liberal. "He's a liberal, he's a liberal". Connecting the dots to what? Satan himself? Yes. Liberal=Satan. And the scare tactic worked to fool the Religious Right Wingers.

Without Israel as an excuse for continuing the war on Iraq, Bush is now merely continuing the war on Iraq because he hasn't anything better to do. Certainly you won't see him discussing anything with people or press who oppose his purpose.

Did anyone remember to check the pipeline to Kuwait?

Did anyone remember to check the Bush policy on paper with the Ben Ladin family?