Bush has won

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by treble, I am surprised , nobody has mentioned the media and lack of publicity for some of the other contestants . We have the same problem here Down Under , just two Parties that seem to take turns in Governing , steering the Nation down the same path , a path of self destruction .Big bussiness and the media are willing supporters . It is my humble opinion You look beyond the Majors . treble.

Welcome, Treble,

If you nose around some of the inactive threads here you'll find a LOT of people were saying the same thing, especially in regards to the Libertarian Party candidate for prez.
It's apparently a universal problem. The Republicans and the Democrats own the government and for some odd reason they don't want to share. Also, the majority of Americans like a winner, which is the catch-22 that keeps any and all independant challengers at bay. If ANY third party gets any power around here, it won't be for lack of trying on the part of the big two to keep them out.

[droque]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, And that is that. The numerical 2% that Kerry would have to overcome with 3% of the vote not counted and the amount fothe absentee and provisional ballots required to fall his way are.... it would be a miracle. Its over, I am going to bed, quite happy, and hoping this doesn't drag out past a week, but why oh why do I think it will?

Now watch the Bush Tax Cuts destroy America!

[lspiderl]

Welcome, Treble, If you nose around some of the inactive threads here you'll find a LOT of people were saying the same thing, especially in regards to the Libertarian Party candidate for prez. It's apparently a universal problem. The Republicans and the Democrats own the government and for some odd reason they don't want to share. Also, the majority of Americans like a winner, which is the catch-22 that keeps any and all independant challengers at bay. If ANY third party gets any power around here, it won't be for lack of trying on the part of the big two to keep them out.

abso(freakin)loutly

the only recent third party canidate that stood a good chance was perot and and he got soo many death threats that he had to drop out of the race

[Scribbler1]

The most amazing thing about Perot's popularity was that he was essentially running all by himself. I believe the Reform party was Henry R's invention.

I sometimes wonder if the death threats were real, and if so, WHO made them.

[droque]

Originally posted by Guy, Sorry I was'nt finished ! The monologue on the photo is : LOOK ! WE Got AWAY WITH IT ! AND THEY HAVE GIVEN US 4 MORE YEARS ! I think it sums it up perfectly .

FOUR MORE YEARS OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN DYING EVERY DAY FOR A LIE TO PRE-EMPT A WAR FOR MUSHROOM CLOUDS AND BUSH AND CHENEY OIL!

AMERICA I MOURN FOR YOU!

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by droque,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (droque,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Guy, Sorry I was'nt finished ! The monologue on the photo  is :   LOOK ! WE Got AWAY WITH IT ! AND THEY HAVE GIVEN US 4 MORE YEARS !     I think it sums it up perfectly .

FOUR MORE YEARS OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN DYING EVERY DAY FOR A LIE TO PRE-EMPT A WAR FOR MUSHROOM CLOUDS AND BUSH AND CHENEY OIL!

AMERICA I MOURN FOR YOU![/b][/quote]

Do you have anything we can debate? Emotional statements are fine, as long as you include some actual relevant information with your post.

[syracusa]

Originally posted by lspiderl, You know what the democrats realy dont seem to understand is this... there are a few FAR RIGHT yahoos there are a few FAR LEFT yahoos BUT MOST of the country is somewhere in between MOST of the country is realy moderate with a little leaning to the left or right the democrats biggest mistake was in playing to the far left pardon my french but fuck the far left fuck the far right PLAY to the middle for the win

On average, US is skewed to the right. Yes, there are realtively few "far right" yahoos out there but there are more "slightly right" Americans than "slightly left" Americans. And when election fever comes, the "slightly right" in people gets fired up and becomes "downright right".

I will never deny that the right-wing mentality has the capacity to produce overall more wealth than the left-wing mentality.

However, it is an inherently immoral, hateful, indifferent, anti-human philosophy (and for those who believe in Christ...it is everything that Saint Man was against...); and I know in the heart of my hearts, that I will despise this philosophy until the day I am gone.

For those of you who don't consider yourselves atheists...and would even have the patience to read this type of completey subjective opinions....

....one of my greatest frustrations is that the right-wing has hijacked Jesus Christ and the idea of faith...when in reality, He could not be more at the opposite pole than these people position themselves into.

For the right-wingers, "faith" means hating other humans and their human weaknesses, being indifferent to them, while worshiping a contrived, kitchy, fake, hollow, angry God created by their own self-absorbed psychotic minds, and who has nothing good about him.

No matter how much these people walk around with the words "God" and "Jesus" hanging onto their nasty lips every step of the way, I always get this feeling of revulsion when I look at their actions and ways. I also get the deep seated gut feeling and inner confirmation that this is NOT where the true God realy is. This is more like...where Satan posing God resides...

When proof, evidence, debating, reasoning, words and logic become irrelevant , the conscience and the "gut feeling" step in. There IS noting else.
And those keep telling me to "STAY AWAY" from these hijackers of "morality" and "Godliness". Their actions speak for themselves.
I have never been an atheist and yet I could not feel more revulsion when I witness the inherently immoral actions and ways of right-wingers... who ironically, claim monopoly on faith and God.
Any better sign for the presence of Satan?
...

[droque]

Originally posted by Scribbler1,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Scribbler1,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by droque,@ <!--QuoteBegin-Guy, Sorry I was'nt finished ! The monologue on the photo  is :   LOOK ! WE Got AWAY WITH IT ! AND THEY HAVE GIVEN US 4 MORE YEARS !      I think it sums it up perfectly . FOUR MORE YEARS OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN DYING EVERY DAY FOR A LIE TO PRE-EMPT A WAR FOR MUSHROOM CLOUDS AND BUSH AND CHENEY OIL! AMERICA I MOURN FOR YOU!

Do you have anything we can debate? Emotional statements are fine, as long as you include some actual relevant information with your post.[/b][/quote]

What is the Result of the Republican 'Supply Side' Tax Cuts?

SUPPLY SIDE tax cuts subsidized the corporate rich and deprived the taxpayers of their welfare entitlements! Kennedy's DEMAND SIDE tax cuts served working families. Reagan's SUPPLY SIDE tax cuts caused massive federal deficits, penalized the poor and middle class, and induced excessive speculation that damaged the economy. Tax Cuts from GHBush-Reagonomics of $7.5 Billion in 1981-92 and GWBush $1.6 Trillion in 2001-04 from the fiscal conservatives "resulted" in the following irresponsible debts! Bush Jr. in spite of his pledge to reduce the deficits has again put forward large, permanent tax cuts as part of its most recent budget.

The "Federal Deficits" were increased to HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of Dollars--now approaching half a trillion dollars:

$ 73.8 BILLION in 1980
$ 78.9 BILLION in 1981 Reagan (increased in 6 out of 8 years)
$127.9 BILLION in 1982
$207.8 BILLION in 1983
$185.3 BILLION in 1984
$212.3 BILLION in 1985
$221.2 BILLION in 1986
$149.7 BILLION in 1987
$155.1 BILLION in 1988
$153.4 BILLION in 1989 Bush Sr. (increased in 3 out of 4 years)
$220.4 BILLION in 1990
$269.5 BILLION in 1991
$290.2 BILLION in 1992
$ 255 BILLION in 1993 Clinton (decreased every year--Big Time)
$ 203 BILLION in 1994
$ 164 BILLION in 1995
$ 107 BILLION in 1996
$ 22 BILLION in 1997
$ -69 BILLION in 1998
$-126 BILLION in 1999
$-236 BILLION in 2000
$-127 BILLION in 2001Bush Jr. (increased every year--Big Time)
$ 158 BILLION in 2002
$ 375 BILLION in 2003
$ 477 BILLION in 2004
* Bush sent a 521Billion (over half trillion) dollar budget to Congress in Feb 2004. (the sky has no limits)



The "National Debt" soared from 73.8 Billions Dollars in 1980 to now approaching over Seven Trillion Dollars due to the Bush-Reagan Tax Cuts. Every year over 350 Billion Dollars are paid in interest alone just to service the National Debt, enough to pay for ten CIA departments! The Debt is now increasing by 1.7 Billion Dollars every day! As can be seen above the tax cuts are no tax cuts--our children and grandchildren will have to pay the debt that the Republicans have created some time in the future. THE TAX CUTS IF CONTINUED WILL DESTROY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

The history of the $749,000,000,000 Reagan-BushSr and later the $1,300,000,000,000 BushJr Tax Cuts, first called "Supply Side Tax Cuts" shows that it has "changed" its name each time the public has caught on to the scheme of taxing employees to subsidize employers (supply side). Bush called it "Voodoo Economics" when he ran against Reagan. It was called Reaganomics during the Reagan years. Later Vice-President Bush called it "Trickle-Down Economics" when he ran against Dukakis. Steve Forbes called it the "Flat Tax" and Capital Gain reductions when he ran for President. Gingrich called the tax cuts the "Crown Jewels" of the Republican revolution. Today the Republicans are calling them just simply "TAX RELIEF". Fool us once--shame on you! Fool us repeatedly--shame on us! Are tax cuts more important than thousands of lives?

Article I, Section 8, Number 1 of the Constitution of the United States tells us that the Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes…to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States--no where does it say to pay the supply side corporations to subsidize their investments.

The tax cuts that are being given to subsidize corporate investments are depriving: 1) the taxpayers from promoting their health, education, and welfare; 2) the young men and women dying daily in Iraq from having adequate military equipment to protect their lives; 3) and our country of a balanced budget that threatens its national security. Bush falsely accused Kerry of raising taxes as many times as he has voted against the tax cuts. Voting against the tax cuts does not mean that Kerry is raising taxes. Just because we do not have to pay the tax cut this year, it does not mean that our children and grandchildren will not have to pay these taxes in years to come--Bush's "Royal Lie".

The time calls for all good men to stand up in behalf of their Country, Constitution, Rights, Freedom, and Democracy!

[gr8fuldaniel]

....one of my greatest frustrations is that the right-wing has hijacked Jesus Christ and the idea of faith...when in reality, He could not be more at the opposite pole than these people position themselves into.

Well said. If they are Christians .....
Nobody gets out alive.

[gr8fuldaniel]

GNN Kerry: "I Can't Believe I'm Losing To This Idiot." Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:52:59 -0800 Newsweek's special post election report gets inside the Kerry camp When President Bush’s poll numbers surged in April after a press conference where his performance was derided by the press and the chattering classes, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry was baffled, writes Newsweek Assistant Managing Editor Evan Thomas in an exclusive report in Newsweek’s special election issue. “He said with a sigh to one top staffer, ‘I can’t believe I’m losing to this idiot.’”

To read the whole article in Newsweek

The election HAD to be rigged, remember the Debates? Loooong Time ago. Bush got a bare bottom spanking in public.

[bishop]

droque... i agree with your #1,2,3 but you omitted the most important item - federal spending.

i suggest you take a look at this link:

http://www.cato.org/dailys/03-24-03.html

-- it should be clear that raising taxes to balance a budget is like drinking a six-pack to cure a hangover.

congress needs to cut the pork, end the war, end giveaways to corporations, dissolve the homeland defense department, end welfare to foreign countries, etc... doing things like that will give us a balanced budget AND it will keep the tax burden low. in such a scenario, it's likely that government revenues would be in surplus, meaning that we can pay off our debt with the excess. and doing this wouldn't cramp the economy whatsoever.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Whoa! Bush crew abandoning ship! Theyre tripping over each other to get away from the cursed one.
Washington Post

Originally posted by The Post, "Even people who really, really, really want to go have been told they may have to wait," said a former administration official privy to the conversations. "Andy (Card) will not let everyone walk out the door at once."

Colin Powell
John Ashcroft
Tommy Thompson
Tom Ridge

All want out, theyre drawing Straws

[Vee]

apparently - I don't know for sure and can't recall where I read it but I'm willing to buy it for some unknown reason - the USA is extreme right compared to the rest of the world

if we believe this left and right in the US is still right compared to anywhere else

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by syracusa, On average, US is skewed to the right. Yes, there are realtively few "far right" yahoos out there but there are more "slightly right" Americans than "slightly left" Americans. And when election fever comes, the "slightly right" in people gets fired up and becomes "downright right".

I disagree. I think the majority of people in America are left-leaning on most issues but most who vote are right-wing voters. I see the same things all the time, people voting Bush and agree with really nothing he stands for. Or people who don't vote... mostly liberals because they are mostly poor AND urban or young and suburban.

[Vee]

why do the "liberals" not vote cos they're poor?
why do they not vote if they're urban/suburban and/or young?

assuming they're of voting age

[syracusa]

Originally posted by Vee, apparently - I don't know for sure and can't recall where I read it but I'm willing to buy it for some unknown reason - the USA is extreme right compared to the rest of the world if we believe this left and right in the US is still right compared to anywhere else

Very true.
But hey, I'd even take a little bit of left in the US - but even this one is out.
At this rate, I really feel that this country is heading towards some sort of Nazism or an American form of Islamism, or something along those lines. Talk about danger.
The levels of non-reality-based indoctrination in this country have reached new proportions. Downright scary.

I bet a lot of people here would rather not find a job ever again and convince themselves that God wants them to live in poverty and that the rich deseve to be where they are and rule over them, rather than knowing that two lesbians live across the street and are going at it.

Scary, scary, scary.

[syracusa]

[quote=Suburbanite,]

But then, these people should vote, otherwise they don't count.
It is people who get to have a say in the way things should be done that make up the REAL America. The rest are just puppets to be pushed around.

[syracusa]

Error on editing. Sorry.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by droque, What is the Result of the Republican 'Supply Side' Tax Cuts? SUPPLY SIDE tax cuts subsidized the corporate rich and deprived the taxpayers of their welfare entitlements! Kennedy's DEMAND SIDE tax cuts served working families. Reagan's SUPPLY SIDE tax cuts caused massive federal deficits, penalized the poor and middle class, and induced excessive speculation that damaged the economy. Tax Cuts from GHBush-Reagonomics of $7.5 Billion in 1981-92 and GWBush $1.6 Trillion in 2001-04 from the fiscal conservatives "resulted" in the following irresponsible debts! Bush Jr. in spite of his pledge to reduce the deficits has again put forward large, permanent tax cuts as part of its most recent budget. The "Federal Deficits" were increased to HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of Dollars--now approaching half a trillion dollars: $ 73.8 BILLION in 1980 $ 78.9 BILLION in 1981 Reagan (increased in 6 out of 8 years) $127.9 BILLION in 1982 $207.8 BILLION in 1983 $185.3 BILLION in 1984 $212.3 BILLION in 1985 $221.2 BILLION in 1986 $149.7 BILLION in 1987 $155.1 BILLION in 1988 $153.4 BILLION in 1989 Bush Sr. (increased in 3 out of 4 years) $220.4 BILLION in 1990 $269.5 BILLION in 1991 $290.2 BILLION in 1992 $ 255 BILLION in 1993 Clinton (decreased every year--Big Time) $ 203 BILLION in 1994 $ 164 BILLION in 1995 $ 107 BILLION in 1996 $ 22 BILLION in 1997 $ -69 BILLION in 1998 $-126 BILLION in 1999 $-236 BILLION in 2000 $-127 BILLION in 2001Bush Jr. (increased every year--Big Time) $ 158 BILLION in 2002 $ 375 BILLION in 2003 $ 477 BILLION in 2004 * Bush sent a 521Billion (over half trillion) dollar budget to Congress in Feb 2004. (the sky has no limits) The "National Debt" soared from 73.8 Billions Dollars in 1980 to now approaching over Seven Trillion Dollars due to the Bush-Reagan Tax Cuts. Every year over 350 Billion Dollars are paid in interest alone just to service the National Debt, enough to pay for ten CIA departments! The Debt is now increasing by 1.7 Billion Dollars every day! As can be seen above the tax cuts are no tax cuts--our children and grandchildren will have to pay the debt that the Republicans have created some time in the future. THE TAX CUTS IF CONTINUED WILL DESTROY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! The history of the $749,000,000,000 Reagan-BushSr and later the $1,300,000,000,000 BushJr Tax Cuts, first called "Supply Side Tax Cuts" shows that it has "changed" its name each time the public has caught on to the scheme of taxing employees to subsidize employers (supply side). Bush called it "Voodoo Economics" when he ran against Reagan. It was called Reaganomics during the Reagan years. Later Vice-President Bush called it "Trickle-Down Economics" when he ran against Dukakis. Steve Forbes called it the "Flat Tax" and Capital Gain reductions when he ran for President. Gingrich called the tax cuts the "Crown Jewels" of the Republican revolution. Today the Republicans are calling them just simply "TAX RELIEF". Fool us once--shame on you! Fool us repeatedly--shame on us! Are tax cuts more important than thousands of lives? Article I, Section 8, Number 1 of the Constitution of the United States tells us that the Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes…to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States--no where does it say to pay the supply side corporations to subsidize their investments. The tax cuts that are being given to subsidize corporate investments are depriving: 1) the taxpayers from promoting their health, education, and welfare; 2) the young men and women dying daily in Iraq from having adequate military equipment to protect their lives; 3) and our country of a balanced budget that threatens its national security. Bush falsely accused Kerry of raising taxes as many times as he has voted against the tax cuts. Voting against the tax cuts does not mean that Kerry is raising taxes. Just because we do not have to pay the tax cut this year, it does not mean that our children and grandchildren will not have to pay these taxes in years to come--Bush's "Royal Lie". The time calls for all good men to stand up in behalf of their Country, Constitution, Rights, Freedom, and Democracy!

I read that whole text.
What is YOUR "formula" to revive U.S. economy ?

[rcne]

Rather than the biblical right fringe deciding the election, when will the shock of losing set in to the liberal left fringe.

The moderates both Democrats and Republicans have once again gone through the process and elected to keep Bush in the White House.

You are losing tract of the fact that in this country, every 4 or 8 years a transfer of power takes place.

This transfer is bloodless and open to all who vote. So if you are looking for someone to blame, look to the 40% of voters that didn't vote.

Look to the 'Rock the Vote' joke - see why they can amass 80,000 to hear 'The Boss', but failed to make it to the polls.

I'm, a moderate. A conservative moderate but a moderate just the same.

When you seek an excuse and blame the dumb southerners for following their morals, you miss the point. Notice I didn't preface it as 'Evangelical Morals' - just morals.

They have just as much right to their vote as the ultra educated in any university town.

Check the county by county election results across the country - if you are still in doubt.

These conspiracy theories presented here from the left fringe are getting a little paranoid.