Quite A Humurous Little Dialogue

[G. Adams]

I know that. But Iraq was the only country to be standing against the US directly in the region, the it wasn't able to control inside and out. Now it can. For now.

[G. Adams]

Damn, same as before that was a reply to a much ealier post, indierockers

[G. Adams]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon@Sep 2 2003, 12:56 AM If anything would actually push America toward becoming an Empire it is the rest of the worlds "negative reinforcement no matter how you act because you are America" attitude. Personally I do not understand why America simply does not just do as it damn well pleases because the rest of the world hates us regardless of what we do, so why waste resources trying to please the unpleaseable. We have countries in Europe that brag about how little pollution they cause, and how much America does, mainly because we produce their products for them so the pollution gets made here and the product goes there. Meanwhile China is using old factories that put of fifty times as much pollution as American ones for the same amount of production, and it is America that is expected to improve its' factory controls. We have 'allies' that beg for our support covertly, but in public they decry that America is an unwanted presence. We have Puerto Rico that complained about the navel manuevers so we move the base to another spot and they complain about lost revenue, tough. Of course, Germany did the same thing. Then, of course, we have the Middle East. A group of countries that covertly support terrorists because their religion says they must kill anyone that is not a member. But they have oil so we have to turn our eye away and pretend not to have a problem, because the only world market allowed open to us demands oil, and that same world market would object if we resorted to force to solve the problem. Even if we did find another market there are other countries that would be happy to take our place in that same world market, and would probably be asked to drop a few bombs on our country to get the oil contract... I see no reason why America does not get fed up and simply take what it wants, could we possibly be treated worse?

No, the simple march of history is pushing America towards empire. When the US profit margins begin to stangnate, the only route left to continued growth is expansion.

For example, lets look at GB building its empire. The East India company was set up simply as a business to begin with. However it profits slowed, and it was getting attacked by locals. GB sends in troops to protect it. Now its more expensive. We want taxes for the protection of locals (ye sure). Now France starts a war north of us, and we march up to fight them. Now theres all this land between here and the east India company. Well we're here now, stamp a flag down and claim in the name of the King. Tada, empire started. All begins with fine reasons but in the end your in an empirical rut, and the only way to stay safe is to keep expanding.

Actually, if you looked at where EU countries traded, you would see we mainly trade with ourselves, and this is a growing trend. The EU also has the ability to be entirley self sufficient if we need it. Actually, thinking about it, the US was the same 100 years ago, increasingly isolationist and distrustful of warmongering Europeans. Maybe were on the same track again.

And best of all, the EU has a total surplus of $60 million. Sounds crap right? Well considering the US has a hard debt, as in need to pay now, of $500 billion, it sounds pretty good. But in long term debt, its $3 trillion, and estimated at reaching $9 trillion with Bush's sound fiscal policies.

You know, there will come a point when the rest of the world will call in its debts, and if the US doesn't cough up, the money will stop. And unless your going to declare war on us because you can't pay your debts, your fucked.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Let me get this stright, Europe the King of debt default is going to call us in??

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

FedFem
Since that point is totally irrelevant to my point, I will not bother to defend it any longer.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by indierockboy, with america's ever changing international policies, do you really think it would be welcomed with open arms? lets not forget the boondockle that resulted in the slaughter of iraqies during the gulf war, or the billions of dollars given to support the taliban or the training facilities set up to train osama bin laden. america sets itself up to be the world's police, but with policies that dramatically shift and change as often as the administration, that's a very difficult task to accomplish.

Some good points here, irby. I disagree that the US has "everchanging intl. policies", though. There has been a progression, yes. But the trajectory is a result of known forces, almost like a projectile that has been released.

The group that gives continuity to national policy is the CIA along with CFR and international finance. Behind them are the Masters of the New World Order. Yes, the US thinks they are the world's police, hence the disagreement over withdrawal from Iraq. If you're the cops, you gotta stand your grond.(irony) But policy change? Ever heard of "good cop, bad cop?" Well W is the "bad cop". Still a cop. Underlying policy doesn't change.

BTW, could anyone comment on the topic starter: http://asdfg.mine.nu/
I couldn't figure...

[tusaki]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon, Let me get this stright, Europe the King of debt default is going to call us in??

First of all, a us-versus-you conversation hardly accomplishes anything. I don't believe the US will start 'empire-ing' like G.Adams says. But yes, the US gov owes foreign national banks and the like quite a lot of money. Mosty asian banks, but no doubt some European banks too. And as been pointed out before the rest of the world doesn't hate Americans, most of the world is suspicious of the actions and the intentions of the US government. Just like they would be when Russia suddenly sends troops somewhere, regardless of the official reason for sending those troops. Only under UN flag the soldiers would probably have more credibility. Ow, and I would like to point out that most of the points you gave are luxury problems. You are expected to do those things because you are, or so they believe, in the luxurious position to do it 'right'. And since things never get done 'right', people moan and bitch. The alternative is not to moan and bitch (hah! people LOVE to moan and bitch.) but moaning and bitching at least keeps everyone on their toes, or so the moaner/bitcher hopes. And hey, they might have a point now and then.