The illegal Mexican problem, how to deal with it?

Estimates range of upwards of 12 million illegal Mexicans flooding into this country....how to stop what is essentially an invasion?..How best to convince Presidente Fox to do more then pay lip service to our borders?

What steps would you take in order to resolve this long-standing issue between our two countries?

It's effecting one southwestern tribe pretty bad.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N17731447.htm

[Compugasm]

The best discussion of politics (especially immigration) is the John and Ken show because they're roasting Dems + Reps in a bit called "Political Human Sacrifice". I like the show cause they have lots of fun too. It's humorous. It's NOT a "Crossfire" bloodbath of shouting. Keep in mind, it's a local show, so they have traffic reports and such. But you can listen over the internet here 3pm -> 7pm California time.

[IMO]
The "underclass", uneducated, newly naturalized citizens should be the most angered at the illegal alien problem. My job is not at risk by uneducated farmhands spilling over the border.
[/IMO]

How best to convince Presidente Fox to do more then pay lip service to our borders?

Why should he do anything, the people he'd like to get rid of, are coming over here.

[PatrickHenry]

The Mexican workers are coming here because they can find good paying work. These men and women often work HARD for very reasonble wages. The migra don't seem to be taking much action, so employers take advantage of a market in cheap labor. It is a policy of the Feds to do only so much to restrict illegal immigration.

As a construction employer who is conversant in Spanish, why should I not maximize my profit by hiring undocumented workers from the local street corner? The men give it their best and don't lip off or loaf when the boss turns his back. And if they do, I can fire them without consequence. Fed policy and my own self-interest FORCES me to hire these workers. Change the policy, enforce the law and the problem dries up....

[Section 8]

The waiting list for legal immigration is around ten years, and nobody in their right mine would wait ten years while their family was starving. Therefore, we need to greatly ease our immigration policy, making legal immigration take no less than a week, and therefore there would be no incentive to risk your life crossing the borders. Also, we need to beef up security on our borders heavily, to make sure that legal immigration is the only viable and sane option.

[Suburbanite]

I just saw that movie The Day After Tomorrow, one day we will be hopping over their border! But honestly, I don't see it as a problem, it makes my life simpler, house work I need to get done gets done a lot cheaper and other than that I hardly see its effects. This isn't an issue that would sway my vote anyhow.

First off..none of you guys spoke of the very simple comment, they are breaking the law?...Entering our country illegally is a act contrary to the National Security of the United States...whether the immigration time is 10 days or 10 yrs is irrevelent..other immigrants nations do the time...why should the mexicans get off lightly?...The Irish did it...the Poles..Germans, Italians...they all did it the right way, AND the assimilated....the Mexicans merely want to move Mexico north to there they move too...they aren't interesting in assimilating,

If Jose can make it across the border...so can Achmed with a bomb...it's that porous..and if you guys had had an oppurtunity to peruse the link I gave...it's also destroying a Native American reservation...

I've got friends in the Border Patrol...they'll tell you...4 out of 10 immigrants has a criminal past.....we have enough legal criminals in our country....we don't need Mexico's trash as well.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by ACause, 4 out of 10 immigrants has a criminal past.....we have enough legal criminals in our country....we don't need Mexico's trash as well.

I would need a source to find this at all credible, ACause. My experience with undocumented workers has been profitable and harmonious. I agree with defending the borders, but my opinion of the source of terror is likely different from yours.

Why is the US military still training Central and South American army soldiers in the methods of terror? http://www.benning.army.mil/whinsec/

Why has the CIA been the largest state-sponsor of terror in world history?
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/CIA_...ThirdWorld.html

But that is another issue...You did not respond to my allegation that US policy is to allow the undocumented across the border with little resistance. Do you think the coyotes are so clever that they defeat Border Patrol and Immigration with ease? Or is there a hidden agenda by the elite in Washington to continue the flood of wets?

Originally posted by PatrickHenry,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PatrickHenry,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-ACause, 4 out of 10 immigrants has a criminal past.....we have enough legal criminals in our country....we don't need Mexico's trash as well.

I would need a source to find this at all credible, ACause. My experience with undocumented workers has been profitable and harmonious. I agree with defending the borders, but my opinion of the source of terror is likely different from yours.

Why is the US military still training Central and South American army soldiers in the methods of terror? http://www.benning.army.mil/whinsec/

Why has the CIA been the largest state-sponsor of terror in world history?
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/CIA_...ThirdWorld.html

But that is another issue...You did not respond to my allegation that US policy is to allow the undocumented across the border with little resistance. Do you think the coyotes are so clever that they defeat Border Patrol and Immigration with ease? Or is there a hidden agenda by the elite in Washington to continue the flood of wets?[/b][/quote]

It's not that they allow the coyotes over easily...to much terrain...to many bolt holes and entry points....at some points along the border you may have only a few BP agents...but you may have literally hundreds try to cross the border at the same time...it simply is a problem that is too large for the BP to control.

I'll have to get the links for your other questions..but somehow I would think the KGB who helped propel 3rd world guerilla movements in South America and Africa and Asia to be the largest state-sponsor of terror.

[Technosoul]

Gov. Pete Wilson promoted the idea of a wall between Mexico and the USA - demanding that the federal government conduct a massive effort to stop unlawful entry via Mexico. He got no funding and was promtly voted out of office. (the song "I am from East L.A. became a smash hit by that comedy singer (and a movie was made about it, as I recall).

The reason it is not poltically a good thing is that we have lots of people living legally here who are Americans but also are mexicans by race or nationality. If deportation enforcement is beefed up a lot of people in that community would have to put up with getting pulled over, questioned all the time by police, and raided (at work places) etc. They just do not want to put up with all that hassle, and so as a powerful voting block they just would vote out of office those who advocate too much "control activity".

However the police have been active in uncovering and shutting down a lot of coyotes who make a busness out of transporting undocumented workers. One reason is for the safty of those seeking to come to America because of the dangers of being compacted in hot trucks and because many are taken advantage of once they reach America - some girls forced to work as street walkers to cover the added costs of transportation and housing, some raped because they know they cannot call the police and report it. Many come here with enough money to live on while seeking employment but are robbed because.... again....they cannot call the cops out of fear of being deported. It is bad for them and bad for us, and it is true many live in shanty towns like homeless people and that means unwanted dumping of trash and so forth. So even if you do not want them gone because you simply hate mexicans (like John and Ken - who only want to stemulate people by getting them mad at something) we have humanitran reasons to concider, no human being should be treated like a dog by those coyote operations and no human being should be living like a dog in the bushes just outside of town. It must stop.

One poster here had the right idea. But none of you gave it a 2nd thought. We need to improve the legal way people can come here from Mexico, we need to make sure that process is speeded up and get rid of the redtape that slows down lawful entry. We need to comprehend that Mexicans and South Americans are not terrorists and so this has nothing to do with Homeland Security objectives, they are Native Americans just like our own Indians only they live in South Ameirca or central America.

We need to set a standard concening how many can be allowed to cross per year and have a system to make sure they will return at the end of seasonal work is done or within a certain amount of time (before additional people can come here). And if their children are born here, what rights should they have or should they have to adopt the rights of their parent's country.

With the green card indicaiting legal entry to work they should be permitted to share whatever medical, transportation, and housing rights simular to the rights of anyone else. That extra expense should partly come form fines collected from any busness that hires undocumented people. Legal workers from Mexico and elsewhere should have the right to effect union representation or to oganize their own unions.

The police should deport only if they are arrested for a crime other then for traffic violations.

Those making applications to enter the USA to work should have a medical examination to check that they do not have AIDs or some other illness that would impact the population here.

Then buy more technology to secure the boarders - like cameras to monitor the boarders to you do not need as many troops to watch it. As well as some roadblock check points to inspect trucks, vans, and other vehicles that might be used for transportation of undocumented people. (and boats).

And remember.... they are people .... not dogs or an enemy.

Technosoul.

[Technosoul]

Oh yeah, one post script for my message above.

Remember it is us white folks were were the original web backs who came across the waters from other nations.
Not the Mexicans.

We came, we occupied, and we took the land and now rule it.

The USA government was indeed founded by white wet backs and boat people seeking a better world.

So where is our green card?

Tech

Ahmmm....you're not exactly correct there...the land taken here was by colonists from the British Empire, and France, and Spain....already established nations...they came to colonize not work and then send the money home....but come to think of it..dammmmm..the fees and licences we should have charged them when they got here..dammit.

i embrace mexicans. their culture is spanish rooted versus our [my] anglo-saxon rooting. that can make me feel less at home sometimes, but it is not threatening in any way.

mexico really is a trashy nation. i am not surprised that they try to escape it. personally i have thought of escaping america for canada from time to time.

it's too bad the government is too puss to spend the education dollars to americanize these people who seek our protection.

if china was invading us we'd be pulling mexicans off the streets of tiajuana to make them americans. government of cowards...

[caspian88]

Personally, I'd use the military for border security and deport all illegals. They broke the law, they get to pay for it . No property, no money - they get to keep whatever they came in with, and the rest gets auctioned off.

you can't eject 12 million people from the nation and just be done with it. how many cops would it take to do it once? how many cops to maintain it? how many years would we have to do this?

who would rake my lawn?

[Tess]

Haven't any of you seen Born in East LA?

Part of the reason the mexicans come in illegally instead of getting a visa like "all those other immigrants" is that it's much harder for them to get that visa. We'll let all kinds of Bosnians in, but get really picky about mexicans. The Mexicans who come here legally or not are for the most part economic refugees who just want to feed thier families.

As it is, if we end up with another four years of Bush's policies, WE will be going down there for jobs.

Regardless...I don't care how bad it is in Mexico....if it so bad, they can either do one of two things..(1) Fix the problems in your own house before you come in and crash the house next door or (2)Follow the LEGALLY prescribed methods for a work visa.

[prettyredhead]

. And if they do, I can fire them without consequence. Fed policy and my own self-interest FORCES me to hire these workers. Change the policy, enforce the law and the problem dries up....[/quote]

This is a disgusting example of why we need to regulate even illegals. This jerk is as unamerican as a taco, and he wants to keep sucking off the mexican "labor" pool. Well, soon they will start killing the plant at the root. Soon, these "companies" will own up to their deviance. They will be punished and fined to the brink of bankruptcy, as they should.
Tell you what, if milk goes from 1.89 to 5.00 I wont buy milk. Very simple.
This is the destructive force that some people want to continue. These man has no idea about laws and labor FAIR WAGES not slavery . This man uses illegals to do the work for slave wages. In essence they are his own little slaves. And he is the master cracking the whip. You are a vile and sickening man. I hope you get your balls nailed to the wall when they top caves in, as it will.
Oh and you are saying that because they are Mexican they are more hard working than a American man. If Mexicans are so hard working and smart, why do they live in dire poverty? Could they not work so hard in Mexico.? To help themselves? NO, they come here and rape our country then go live there again.

[PatrickHenry]

PRH, you misunderstood my argument. I do work in construction, and I do own my own business. Unfortunately for me, where I live in Hawaii, undocumented Mexican workers are not readily available. When I worked in California, I encountered the situation I spoke of in my previous post.

Unlike you, I am not a xenophobe. I enjoy traveling in other countries and interacting with non-Americans. The Mexican workers DO work hard, as do many Americans. I don't wish to violate immigration laws about hiring those without work permits, but economics pushes this choice to the top of the list. My competitors were doing so, and undercutting my costs, resulting in lower bids and more work for them. They were eating my lunch. Do you drive 55 on the freeway when all around you are doing 70?

The workers were never my slaves. They WANTED to work for me, since I always treated them with respect and paid what I had agreed to pay. They were free to quit and find other work. Your character assassination is unwarranted and I have complained to the management of volconvo. You must refrain from this type of argument.

Mexican workers do not "rape" our country. There ARE problems with undocumented workers and I don't want unlimited immigration, but the poverty of Mexico has little to do with Mexican workers being lazy. Rather, econimc conditions relate to specific local policies. Mexican workers have found union organizing blocked in Mexico. Maybe things will change under Vicente Fox...

[Technosoul]

The big difference is the hourly pay rates between Mexico and the USA. They can come here and earn much more per hour and gain more money faster - and when they return that money to Mexico the money will go a long ways.

The only way to solve what some see as a problem is to make the pay rate the same in both countires (minimum wage the same). Ether Mexico would have to raise their minimum wage (or get one?) that is compatible with the USA and enforce it, or else the USA would have to lower our minium wage to that of Mexico. And all products and services would have to adjust to those pay-rate standards accordingly.

Such that no matter which country you are in you get the same paycheck for hours worked. Removing the reason and motivation to want to work elsewhere.

I would even go so far as to suggest that the U.N. or the "world trade oganizations" should establish a international minimum ware standard that all nations must conform too. So that busnesses in every country would pay employees the same as anywhere else on the globe.

That is the only real solution - an even playing field internationally, relative to minimum wages. Yap all you want, but if that is not done we will always have problems because busness will always seek the most cost effective way to operate and employees will always go where they can get paid more money.

Technosoul.

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by ACause, First off..none of you guys spoke of the very simple comment, they are breaking the law?

No one said anything about it because no one cares. Breaking the law doesn't mean jack shit to me, I do it at least once a week.