war on terror working

[Paavo]

hahah, point well made Sodfather...but now that he's gone I thought I could start talking crap about him behind his back. :P
*deletes the screenshot*

[white rice]

What kind of terror is it working on Mr.CAPS person?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...-home-headlines

...The case began to unfold in January 2002, when the package was mistakenly delivered to Staten Island. Investigators traced it to a mailing and business center near Tyler, then to Krar and Bruey, who lived together in Noonday.

With Bruey's permission, they searched a storage facility the couple had rented. The firepower inside shocked law enforcement officers.

Investigators found nearly 500,000 rounds of ammunition, 65 pipe bombs and briefcases that could be detonated by remote control.

Most distressing, they said, was the discovery of 800 grams of almost pure sodium cyanide — material that can only be acquired legally for specific agricultural or military projects.

The sodium cyanide was found inside an ammunition canister, next to hydrochloric, nitric and acetic acids and formulas for making bombs. If acid were mixed with the sodium cyanide, an analysis showed, it would create a bomb powerful enough to kill everyone inside a 30,000-square-foot facility, investigators said.

Also discovered were anti-Semitic, antiblack and antigovernment books and pamphlets, according to the FBI's affidavit.

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Critics of the Bush administration say federal officials and the mainstream media are suffering from tunnel vision — that they are so focused on international threats that they have failed to give sufficient attention to threats at home.

At most, the critics say, increased attention to this case could have brought more answers. At the least, they say, if the defendants in this case had been people with foreign backgrounds or Muslims, U.S. Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft himself would have announced the arrests and the guilty pleas.

Instead, details of the case were revealed in a half-page press release sent to local media. Officials say the case was at one point included in President Bush's daily security briefings, but it remains virtually unknown outside East Texas — even though, critics point out, it represents an instance in which federal authorities discovered a weapon of mass destruction.

Much of the criticism has come on Internet Web logs, known as "blogs." People who operate the websites, or "bloggers," have seized on the Krar case and what they perceive as the inattention it received from the Bush administration and major media.

The fault, critics say, lies not with law enforcement officers, whom they believe prevented a deadly plot from developing. Instead, they say, the fault lies with an administration that adheres too closely to a script.

"If anyone wanted evidence that the 'war on terror' is primarily a political marketing campaign — in which war itself is mostly a device for garnering support — they need look no further than the startling non-response to domestic terrorism by the Bush Administration," one blog, called Orcinus, said recently. The blog, which uses a killer whale as its mascot and targets the nexus of politics, culture and journalism, is written and compiled by David Neiwert, a Seattle resident and former journalist.

Robert Jensen, an associate professor in the School of Journalism at the University of Texas in Austin and director of the College of Communication's honors program, agrees with the criticism. He says that the Bush administration, to promote its efforts overseas, "needs a public that is afraid and sees these wars as justified."

"The primary justification is a fear of people 'out there' who want to come here and get us," he said. "Arrests of foreigners are very effective arrests to publicize. It has a political function. Domestic terrorism may be, in some ways, more of a threat. But there is no reason to publicize it. It doesn't have any political benefit."

[Spozguy]

Does anyone else find it somewhat amusing that while the left always bitches about the ignorant media and the right always bitches about the News being to left?


Seriously. whoever said that maybe it was a return to imperialism was a little off. We are already there.
The UN is useless. The world votes on something and the victors of World War II have the final say.
The "War on Terror" is violent and stupid, because in order to have total victory you must wipe out every single person on the planet who might represent a challenge to state power. It will never be finished because when you kill a terrorist, people watch and get annoyed at whoever was responsible.
The War on Terror is only a war on the official enemy. It would be folly to assume that the USA and other powers have never engaged in terrorism. Israel was founded on it, the USA tried to oust Castro using Terrorism. And I say this many times, Saddam may of been a bitch but he was the USA'S bitch for all fof his reign up until he invaded Kuwait. He never directly supported Terrorism (except for the Palestinian suicide bomber payments), Let alone some calims that he was in league with Al-Qaeda. Saddam's Iraq was a secular Islamist state, and Osama condemned him for this, along with his killing of other Muslims. I would not make such outraegous claims as Saddam was a tool of the CIA, but he did benefit from generous US support.

As for Qaddafi, Our Libyan Terrorist Friend. He's not the dumbest guy in the book. There is no doubt that Libya attempted to gain access to WMD's. And now he's giving them up, good for him, now his people can stop starving because of sanctions. It is such a fucking danger when WMD arent in the hands of the delegated few. I am amazed at the USA's complete compliance and lack of action concerning the proliferation of Nuclear Weapons by India and Pakistan. If anyone is a major danger with WMD, it is the USA, being the only country in all of history to detonate a nuclear device in a combat situation (Hiroshima, Nagasaki) after the enemy had offered to surrender.
Who's the biggest danger to the world today? unorganized terrorists with piss poor weapons and funding, or the Superpower with the will and the power to invade at will?

[harami]

"Who's the biggest danger to the world today? unorganized terrorists with piss poor weapons and funding, or the Superpower with the will and the power to invade at will? "

Two issues:
911 was not carried out by "unorganized terrorists". "piss poor funding" could include a few mill for a few ounces of smallpox, a dirty nuke in a container ship, $ for many lockebies in many ways, etc. Most of us can think of many ways to inflict substantial terror on the US with only a few bucks worth of toys. There seems to be no shortage of suicide deliverers, perhaps only a shortage of imagination on their side.

The Superpower is not a loose cannon (unless you regard bombing aspirin factories as such behavior). World opinion is important to it, even if it does not cowtow to Chirac or Gerhardt or Anan on a regular basis. Many months were spent in diplomatic wrangling before Iraq was invaded. Diplomacy has not ceased. US public opinion does matter, as the recent democratic primaries indicate, and US citizens are not uniformly in favor of unilateral US actions. Historically, US citizens have been isolationist. There are many dissidents in the US, and many more would arise if "loose cannon" behavior became too prevalent. So, there goes your "will" argument.

Big dangers are often more subtle and take time to develop. If you think Bush can sway public opinion with demagoguery, you would be swimming against the tide of opinion on his rhetorical ablilities.

[Spozguy]

World opinion means crap. It wasn't just the U.N that objected to the 2nd Gulf War (3rd if you want to say the Iran- Iraq war was the 1st) The protests against this invasion pre-war have been without precedent worldwide. 9/11 was done by a sleeper cell of mainly Saudis (anyone feel free to correct me here) athe USA ignored the possibility investigating Saudi Arabia (man has that Royal Family got to answer for some things) It's also common knowledge that the members of the Bin Laden Family were flown out of the US, when the total flight ban was occuring.
The greatest Terrorist threat, is in my opinion, the conditions that allow terrorism to arise. The war on Terror will not be won until Poverty is eliminated because poverty breeds hate against those percieved to be responsible for poverty.
Terrorists are never going to be a force worth reckoning with because they cannot raise an army of hundreds of thousands, like the USA can.
I just spent the last 20 minutes, writing a response to the will rebuttal, but it was so unstructured i decided not to put you all through it.

[PeterAngelo]

The focus on the Middle east is understandable but it is not the whole world.

We are backed into a corner of our own making.

The Saudis that did 9/11 are trying to get rid of the Saudi Royal Family. In 1915 the British government promised Husein ibn Ali, the Sharif of Mecca, the right to Arab independence in return for collaberation with the Allies against the Ottomans. However, the British left vague the precise areas where Arab Independence would be recognized. Finally, the British promised support for, "the establishment in Palestine as a national home for the "Jewish people" in the Balfour Declaration of November 1917 to win worldwide Jewish support for the war effort (WWI).

We are still "resolving" these promises that we and the Brits never intended to honor.

Bin Laden is just bringing it to a head. Also, the Muslim Clerics who have been supporting the Saudi family are getting a lot of grief for letting us have bases there.

The Royal family is caught between a rock, Iraq, US, Bin Laden, and everyone.

The squeeze is on them and it is getting bad.

We are the whores of the world who break every treaty and now the game is being broadcast in real time on the Net in color.

AFRICA

Modern technology has been able to pinpoint the location of the world's most precious resources for decades. Policies have existed for a long time preparing for future plundering.

Ten years ago I wrote about the MILLIONS of Tutsis slaughtered by machete. Areas of the world that are earmarked for exploitation by multi-national corporations in the far future are being prepared for today. No matter where on earth the disenfranchised live they are being slaughtered and maneuvered into position like America did to the Indians centuries ago. The policies are the same, global, and working well.

The United States is quickly moving to diversify its sources of imported oil away from the political high-risk areas of the Middle East. Moving into West Africa is part of the search for alternative sources of oil. The US believes that the likelihood of a joint oil embargo among the countries of West Africa is small due to the lack of historical links between the countries and the lack of a strong ideological perspective.

Also the oil is largely along the coastline of the Gulf of Guinea, from Nigeria to Angola, and tends to be isolated from domestic and political turbulence. Strategically, the oil is closer to the US than Middle Eastern oil and can be delivered via open seas, unobstructed by canals or narrow straits.

Western multinational corporations are clearly interested in Africa and are encouraging the US to establish a greater presence on the continent. One way of doing this is to establish a linkage between economic and social conditions in Africa and terrorism. It is said that Africa needs assistance to prevent breeding terrorists and generating an influx of migrants to Western societies.

On March 14, 2002, President George W. Bush announced his administration s new $5 billion Millennium Challenge Account. We cannot leave 50% of the world s population in poverty, he said. Grinding poverty and absence of hope and opportunity contribute to unrest and the increase in radical and related activities.

So Bush challenged the African leaders to double in a decade their current rates of economic growth. They would get US assistance if they moved to reform their societies economically, socially, and politically, and move to establish good governance and end corruption.

In May 2002, the African Oil Policy Initiative Group, an oil industry lobby in Washington, urged the US Congress and the Bush administration to declare the Gulf of Guinea an area of vital interest to the US and to encourage greater extraction of oil from Africa. Clearly, there is increasing pressure from the oil industry for a greater US presence in Africa.

Charge of the oil brigade

Oil companies, including ExxonMobile, Chevron-Texaco, BP-Amoco, Amerada Hess, and Ocean energy, will invest some $10 billion per year in African oil. From two-thirds to three-fourths of US foreign direct investment in Africa will be in the energy sectory.

Both Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien and US Treasury Secretary Paul O Neill have made recent trips to Africa to promote African development and NEPAD. Countries engaged primarily in the extraction of oil, however, have a poor record of democracy, human rights and equitable development that creates jobs for local people. There is talk of spreading the oil wealth as a good business policy, but there are many constraints.

State looting of the oil wealth can be massive, such as in Angola where one-third to two-thirds of all state revenues ($1 billion-$3 billion) went missing in 2001. Good governance was on the agenda at Kananaskis, but it is harder to establish given the social and economic reality on the ground.

The Gulf Oil Sheikdoms are on the verge of collapse, politically. This is tied to the historical mistakes of the West of guaranteeing the political stability of feudal and regressive regimes. The same could happen in Africa, if the oil wealth is used to prop up undemocratic regimes. Oil has long been used to fuel civil wars in Sudan and Angola.

It is no secret that the George W. Bush administration is top-heavy with oil men. The interests of the oil corporations, which largely made policies in Texas when Bush Jr. was governor there, have a good deal of influence.

African Development was hyped in the press as the centerpiece of the G-8 meeting in Kananaskis, but spurring economic growth under recessionary structural adjustment programs and the enormous debt burden is extremely problematical, not only in Africa but elsewhere in the developing world. In fact such programs more often close off opportunities in the local economy, allowing multinational firms to come in and scoop up local companies for a song.

The bottom line, which, not surprisingly, was largely undisclosed in press reports of the G-8 meeting, is Western access to African oil. It seems that Africa is in for a new round of imperialist plunder, being packaged as a new development program.

[PeterAngelo]

The IRA killed a lot of "innocents". They bombed London so many times it was like Bagdad.

Terrorism works like nothing else.

We take pride in our revolutionaly heroes use of terrorist tactics. We shot British troops from behind trees and drove them nuts. we are proud of that.

Menachem Began bombed London and became Premier of Israel.

The Israeli -Palestinian conflict remains unsettled because the division and terror allows the British ansd Americans to justify maintaining the war machines.

Arafat would be dead if he weren't a deliberate "player" in this farce.

The PLO and the Zionists are a tag team working together to maintain their personal fortunes. Arafat is wealthy with a young wife living in Jordon - or Paris - or anywhere she wants. Sharon is a thief and a serial killer who just got charged with bribery. He is already wealthy but so small minded he wants every nickle (typical).

It is all a cosmic joke and a trick being played on uneducated, ignorant, and often dimwitted "subjects".

It has always been that way because education and information was kept for the rulers.

Today the Internet is putting a wrench in the gears of all tyrants (including us). TV forced our civil rights acts because the world saw how southern sheriffs "terrorized" Blacks.

Terror is the only instrument that works. War is terror by rulers against their own people who have become too damanding and too much of a threat. Wars are agreed to before-hand between the parties and their banks. The people are just "sheep". The Catholic Church is so contemptuous of their idiot followers they actually call them "sheep", and the fools think it is a good thing.

As Bush defines terrorists they are any poor person that threatens a rich person.

The super-rich who have made fortunes at the expense of billions of third world poor are so scared they want to be able to kill anyone who gets near them.

Our President should be the most beloved man in the world. He should be protected by the people and not from the people. Even during the evil times of WWII, Harry Truman used to casually walk around the White House and greet people on the street - with no secret service or anything.

Today they cordon off nine miles around the criminal Bush so his victims can't get justice.

We are a crime-gang run nation that has the whole world frightened of us and hoping we self destruct.

I think their prayers may be answered soon.

I pray with them and would love to be brave enough to take one of those arrogant pigs out who are raping America. I am a coward and a blowhard compared to the youngest child that gives his life for his people.

We are a bunckh of spoiled, insipid, anti-christians who love to kill for money, all of us. We all live fat and safe because thugs like bushie kill for us. I hate him, but I have to hate myself too for allowing him to get away with it. It is wrong on its face even though no one has figured out how to do it any other way.

Humans are not trustworthy. We lie all the time, cheat, steal, kill and envy each other. The elderly hate being old and hate the young for having so much fun. Decisions made by old people who run the world are skewed by the fear of impending death.

The future is never a real consideration because we have no future - individually. No matter what we do we will die in a short time. Kids think life is long but old people know at the end is feels like it never happened at all - like it all took five minutes and there's less than a minute left.

Terror works because the fear of death is the most primal thing we deal with after birth until we finally die. It is on our minds every minute of every day. We are all a phone call away from hearing our loved ones got run over by a truck, or we are diagnosed with some horrible cancer.

That drives us all insane and explains the actions of every character in history - bar none.

Terrorism works to the point that America has run out of countries that will make war deals with us because we can't be trusted. That is a new turning point in history. Our only allies are a joke. Our former allies are frightened - including Russia and China.

We are no longer the beacon of light and freedom - if we ever were. We are the merchants of death and destruction. our land mines blow up children all over the world every day. Our bases are everywhere and the povery stricken hordes of refugees know that we are the ones who drive them off their ancestral lands so we can steal oil and other resources.

The Internet is now able to reach billions and teach them our tricks. When that happens the trick is dead - and so are we.

We cannot kill or control 5,750,000,000 slaves (half under twenty years-old). They will swarm over us like ants on honey and eat us - literally.

I don't blame them and I will help if I can.

We have gone too far and plan to go a lot further.

No way. The age of high-tech military industrial complexes making weapons of mass destruction has to end.

That means we have to end.

The world would be better off if all politics were local and there was no barbarian power capable of attacking cultures who are minding their own business.

We are the modern Genghis Kahn.

We have to give up the piracy and try to live in peace.

We cannot ever promote peace and live by a war machine that eats other nations.

Eisenhour warned us that the military-industrial complex would become what it is today. It is a monster that is crapping mass graves all over the planet.

We are the Great Satan and Bin Laden is my hero.

He is not a terrorist - he is a freedom fighter.

I am not happy anyone died on 9/11, but it is not comparable to the number of innocents we have butchered (with Britain), and continue to butcher, every day of the year since 1916.

We are the terrorists, so we must believe in terrorism as an effective weapon. It is our only weapon.

No wonder our phony crime lord administration tries to convince us that terrorism doesn't work. That a terrorist is an "individual" and not a smart bomb dropped from thirty thousand feet on the home of a sleeping family in Bagdad.

The cycle continues deliberately because it justifies building a bigger, badder war machine.

Peace is an enemy to a country that depends on a war machine to exist. We no longer manufacture "things" to sell to the world. We manufacture war tools to control, enslave, and exploit the world.

Our "consumer" economy is consuming human beings for a living.

Supply and demand are the only legitimate economic forces. We have given up on trying to stay legitimate. All pirates hate to actually work for a living when it is easier to rob with a gun or a smart bomb. Our "Skull and Bones" leaders are pirates - that is the code of Skull and Bones". It is how the British Empire has always rules. Privateers (like Blackbeard) were really agents for the crown. The pirate flag is the true flag of England and America.

Everything else is only show. Smoke and mirrors like the Wizard of Oz.

Too bad people are too stupid to understand this truth.

Like Jack Nicholson said in the movie, "You can't handle the truth".

Sad.

[Zeebadee]

Wow, sounds like someone just found out that Santa Claus isn't real.

Why don't you just point out the form of government or country that performs at the level of morality you would settle for?

Have a nice day!

[PeterAngelo]

I'm sixty, and I knew it before I was born.

I am the only system that works.

We are all responsible for our own happiness and successful life.

I have won the war by being bad. It's the American way.

It would have been "nice" to be good, but I have no illusions. I am not "good".

I can, however, dream.

It is sunny and warm here on Clearwater Beach. I am nine stories above the "ants" working for a living below me.

I have a nice day all the time because I make sure no SOB gets in my way.

The best part is that the Clearwater Police - who are as tough as LA cops - treat us with kid gloves here in the high rent district.

We are the biggest thieves in the community - all the rich people around me - and the cops terrorize the poor to keep them away from "us", so we can have a nice day.

Thanks.

Burn a extra Iraqi baby for me today - just for fun.

[rmnunez]

More fun for the conspiracy-minded:

>In March 1999, German intelligence officials gave the CIA first name and telephone number of Marwan al-Shehhi, and asked the Americans to track him. The name and phone number in the UAE had been obtained by the Germans by monitoring the telephone of Mohamed Heidar Zammar, an Islamic militant in Hamburg who was closely linked to the important Qaeda plotters who ultimately mastermined the Sept. 11 attacks, German officials said. After the Germans passed the information on to the CIA., they did not hear from the Americans about the matter until after Sept. 11, a senior German intelligence official said. "There was no response" at the time, the official said. After receiving the tip, the CIA decided that "Marwan" was probably an associate of Osama bin Laden, but never tracked him down, American officials say. The information concerning Mr. Shehhi, the man who took over the controls of United Airlines Flight 175, which flew into the south tower of the WTC, came months earlier than well-documented tips about other hijackers, including two who were discovered to have attended a meeting of militants in Malaysia in January 2000.

[joegvb]

Impenitent was right when they said that the diplomatic approach didn?t work. Clinton had eight years to get rid of or do the diplomatic solution thing.

Bush just took action and saved a lot of helpless and innocent people.

Impenitent said Bush isn?t afraid to use force -- well if that aint the best thing i have heard in awhile. Bush will continue to do this as long as he is president. Its what this country needs a forceful president not some jack moe who sits around and says "lets do this the diplomatic way forever and ever. Sadam had his chance to get out peacefully but choose to do things his way.

Bush is basically saying is the right way or the highway!

More from me later,

Joe

[mlingley]

"Peace can not be kept by force, it can only be achieve through understanding"
-Albert Einstein

[Impenitent]

"It takes a squid to make a squid sandwich"
-Albert Einstein

"I forgot my shoes"
-Albert Einstein

every word out of a genius' mouth is not genius...

[tusaki]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent)
every word out of a genius' mouth is not genius...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

No, but wise words (like those in mlingley's post) carry more weight when said by a respected and intelligent man.

The reverse is also true. Whatever Bush says is viewed with an awful lot of skepticism and distrust.

[Impenitent]

"Peace can not be kept by force, it can only be achieve through understanding"

there is no wisdom in those words...

there is only ignorance of humans...

even Einstein understood the people of nazi germany and how they wanted peace...

if Einstein actually believed that line, he would have stayed in germany and "understood" the peace loving people he from which he fled...

[ruiner]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Bush will continue to do this as long as he is president. Its what this country needs a forceful president not some jack moe who sits around and says "lets do this the diplomatic way forever and ever. Sadam had his chance to get out peacefully but choose to do things his way. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Saddam was on a tight enough leash. Saddam had more WMD capabilities post 91 than he did in 2001. Those US slide-show presentations to the UN turned out to be utter bs. The UN's predictions of Saddams capabilities turned out to be far closer to the truth than the US governments predictions. Given the information we know now, we would have never gone to war. War was based on an imminent WMD threat that simply wasn't there.

But irrespective of the current US administrations shortfalls in this area, I would far rather they are in charge than you, for it is clear that given the chance you would have attacked North Korea, Iran (and probably Cuba for the hell of it) last tuesday

[mlingley]

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, science for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable an ignorable war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." (Albert Einstein)