Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Mia · Oct 17, 2004, 06:37 am

We had big debates over this months ago. People kept saying, "Give me an example of how it has taken away a right of YOUR'S"

I and others said 1) that the rights had already been stripped when the act was signed, even though nothing specific had occurred to 'us' (non-terrorists) yet.

Well, to all of you who argued the other side and asked that question, here's how the Patriot Act might get me killed.

When you have a defcon level 5 stalker, the only solution is to become 'invisible'.

I have been advised by all sectors of the law this is my only defense, since the laws won't (can't) protect me against the smart kind who can terrorize without ever leaving evidence that a law was broken.

Basically, I can wait around to be killed or maimed, then they can help me :rolleyes:

SO, the other option in the invisible thing so he can't find me.

DING DING! The MF'n Patriot Act won't let me!

All the privacy methods stripped by this act prevent me from operating under another identity as I must do to live.

So there's your specific, concrete, personal example.

The Patriot Act sucks.

Because of it, I have to go the opposite of invisible.

If I'm visible enough, I'll be missed. If everyone knows who the perp is, he'll know he'll get caught.

Possibly this won't be good enough, but it's all I've got thanks to the Anthrax scare perped on Congress to get them to pass that constitution violating, toilet paper worthy, 'bill'

:(

castille · Oct 17, 2004, 08:51 am

You do realise it IS possible to change identities without having to go through that government crap?

Unless you are being stalked by a member of the Gestapo, moving to another state and changing your name, haircut, and clothing is perfectly fine.

Dieval · Oct 17, 2004, 02:33 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mia,

When you have a defcon level 5 stalker, the only solution is to become 'invisible'.

What is a "defcon level 5 stalker"?

Mia · Dec 5, 2004, 04:11 am

Quote:

Quote by: castille

You do realise it IS possible to change identities without having to go through that government crap?

Unless you are being stalked by a member of the Gestapo, moving to another state and changing your name, haircut, and clothing is perfectly fine.

But a name change through the court can be found out with a minimum of effort. Additionally, I ran into problems setting up an account for my grandmother with a power of attorney for her.

They want her to come in to verify her identity. If she could move around and handle things like that, I wouldn't need a POA to do it for her.

My 90 year old fundalmentalist Christian Grandmother is not money laundering for Hamas. It's safe to let me open an account for her, but no says the Patriot Act.

Mia · Dec 5, 2004, 04:13 am

Quote:

Quote by: Dieval

What is a "defcon level 5 stalker"?

It's just an expression I use. Some stalkers will quit, some will never until one of the two is dead. These I label 'defcon 5' due to the intensity and danger level.

OberonDOtherseid · Dec 5, 2004, 10:13 am

What does this have to do with the Patriot act? If he/she is in fact stalking you and might even be reading this board I would stop giving it so much public attention where it might get irritated with your content.

kharmajunkie · Dec 5, 2004, 12:40 pm

"What does this have to do with the Patriot act?" Obe

Patriot Act apologists have asked for specific ways the PA is oppressive and invasive to our personal
privacy; I've found that to be their only argument for the PA, asking for examples where one's rights are violated. Mia was stating an actual instance in her life in which the PA was stiffling her.

Osborn F Enready · Dec 5, 2004, 12:59 pm

I notice Dieval and Castille got in here to defend the Pat Act, but completely avoided the in depth thread about the explanation of the actions of the Pat Act. No insults or implications, just an observation I have noted.

This is the thread in which I am referring to....
Let's hear you Bushbots defend THIS!

OberonDOtherseid · Dec 5, 2004, 01:40 pm

Is that on topic?

Anniee · Dec 5, 2004, 02:06 pm

On the other hand, the patriot act, while a travesty to freedom, might make it equally difficult for this stalker to get away with it without leaving any traces; and might pull him/her up short. Thus the legal advice given you prior might be completely out of date in light of the pat act. Something to consider...

OberonDOtherseid · Dec 5, 2004, 02:08 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Anniee

On the other hand, the patriot act, while a travesty to freedom, might make it equally difficult for this stalker to get away with it without leaving any traces; and might pull him/her up short. Thus the legal advice given you prior might be completely out of date in light of the pat act. Something to consider...

LMAO!!! You mean the patriot act violates even Mias' stalkers rights, the stalker won't be able to violate without being traced? Hmmm...that is an interesting concept, lol.!!

Mia · Dec 5, 2004, 10:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid

What does this have to do with the Patriot act? If he/she is in fact stalking you and might even be reading this board I would stop giving it so much public attention where it might get irritated with your content.

Too late for that. It is more than irritated with my publishing of information. I don't really give a damn. It will not stop no matter what, I at least had the hope of exposure helping me.

It didn't work, but I had nothing to lose and it didn't hurt to try. If nothing else, maybe if I am not the only one affected in this scenario, he will eventually stop. Maybe with enough exposure and police reports and so on, he will decide it's no longer worth it. I won't disturb Volcanvo with it anymore, but I'm not stopping on every front that I can come back at him. I can't just sit and take it for the rest of my life.

Anyway, how it relates to the Patriot Act is that people who need a high degree of privacy can't get it. And before I get jumped on for talking about personal issues again, as I stated above, people had asked for specific, personal examples of how the Patriot Act affected anyone in a negative way.

Mia · Dec 5, 2004, 10:20 pm

Quote:

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid

LMAO!!! You mean the patriot act violates even Mias' stalkers rights, the stalker won't be able to violate without being traced? Hmmm...that is an interesting concept, lol.!!

I don't understand this at all. The Patriot Act has no effect on stalkers that I can see. It is victims who seek super-privacy measures and cannot obtain them.

It's kind of like restricting gun rights. If they are outlawed, only outlaws would have them. Laws only do good against law-abiding people. A stalker doesn't care. A terrorist doesn't care. The PA makes things more difficult for everyone EXCEPT the ones it is supposedly aimed at.

Does anyone really think terrorists can't find a way around these provisions in the Act?

Mia · Dec 5, 2004, 10:23 pm

-----------

OberonDOtherseid · Dec 5, 2004, 11:27 pm

The point is that if you can't get any privacy how do you suppose a stalker can? Without that stalker having the ability to slalk privately and not be noticed, it makes it hard for a stalker to stalk, right?

Dieval · Dec 6, 2004, 12:11 am

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

I notice Dieval and Castille got in here to defend the Pat Act, but completely avoided the in depth thread about the explanation of the actions of the Pat Act. No insults or implications, just an observation I have noted.

This is the thread in which I am referring to....
Let's hear you Bushbots defend THIS!

Huh? I defended this? Not that I really have a problem with the PA, but all I said was -
"What is a "defcon level 5 stalker"?" and then didn't get a response for almost a month...

Mia, if you have a problem with a stalker, I suggest you buy a gun and learn how to use it. Nothing stops a stalker like a bullet.

Mia · Dec 6, 2004, 12:43 am

Quote:

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid

The point is that if you can't get any privacy how do you suppose a stalker can? Without that stalker having the ability to slalk privately and not be noticed, it makes it hard for a stalker to stalk, right?

Stalkers for the most part fall into two categories. The ones that will walk right into a woman's workplace and blow her head off, knowing he's going directly to jail, and not give a damn.

And those that are very cagy and terrorize in a way that is around the law.

Did you see 'Sleeping with The Enemy', or 'Enough'? Both of these were men with more power and means than the woman, and even used the police against her, and did things in such a way that she just looked like a paranoid lunatic instead of the victim she truly was.

The Patriot Act would not have helped either of these women.

Can you name an instance where it would help a stalker victim? Something very specific please.

Mia · Dec 6, 2004, 01:38 am

Quote:

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid

The point is that if you can't get any privacy how do you suppose a stalker can? Without that stalker having the ability to slalk privately and not be noticed, it makes it hard for a stalker to stalk, right?

I have more detail here that I don't want to muss up the PA topic with: http://www.volconvo.com/forums/showt...ed=1#post82949

OberonDOtherseid · Dec 6, 2004, 11:20 pm

Have you reported this person? Have you consitantly kept a log of this persons stalking, time , date etc? Have you managed to get any witnesses to this? With the laws in favor of women these days I can't believe you are unable to rid yourself of this person, somehow, some way.

Anniee · Dec 6, 2004, 11:24 pm

Some people are unwilling to take up any type of weapons in their own defense, even to save their own lives or the lives of their loved ones. Amazing, but true, oberon.

Oct 17, 2004, 06:37 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	We had big debates over this months ago. People kept saying, "Give me an example of how it has taken away a right of YOUR'S" I and others said 1) that the rights had already been stripped when the act was signed, even though nothing specific had occurred to 'us' (non-terrorists) yet. Well, to all of you who argued the other side and asked that question, here's how the Patriot Act might get me killed. When you have a defcon level 5 stalker, the only solution is to become 'invisible'. I have been advised by all sectors of the law this is my only defense, since the laws won't (can't) protect me against the smart kind who can terrorize without ever leaving evidence that a law was broken. Basically, I can wait around to be killed or maimed, then they can help me :rolleyes: SO, the other option in the invisible thing so he can't find me. DING DING! The MF'n Patriot Act won't let me! All the privacy methods stripped by this act prevent me from operating under another identity as I must do to live. So there's your specific, concrete, personal example. The Patriot Act sucks. Because of it, I have to go the opposite of invisible. If I'm visible enough, I'll be missed. If everyone knows who the perp is, he'll know he'll get caught. Possibly this won't be good enough, but it's all I've got thanks to the Anthrax scare perped on Congress to get them to pass that constitution violating, toilet paper worthy, 'bill' :( "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Oct 17, 2004, 08:51 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	You do realise it IS possible to change identities without having to go through that government crap? Unless you are being stalked by a member of the Gestapo, moving to another state and changing your name, haircut, and clothing is perfectly fine. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Dec 5, 2004, 12:40 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
kharmajunkie year of the monkey Location: Milwaukee, Wi Posts: 663	"What does this have to do with the Patriot act?" Obe Patriot Act apologists have asked for specific ways the PA is oppressive and invasive to our personal privacy; I've found that to be their only argument for the PA, asking for examples where one's rights are violated. Mia was stating an actual instance in her life in which the PA was stiffling her. Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative. anonomous Words we say, never seem to live up to the ones inside our heads. Chris Cornell

Dec 5, 2004, 12:59 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	I notice Dieval and Castille got in here to defend the Pat Act, but completely avoided the in depth thread about the explanation of the actions of the Pat Act. No insults or implications, just an observation I have noted. This is the thread in which I am referring to.... Let's hear you Bushbots defend THIS! Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Dec 5, 2004, 10:23 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	I don't know what this new 'title' line is for ----------- "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali Last edited by Mia; Dec 5, 2004 at 10:27 pm. Reason: mistake

Dec 5, 2004, 10:13 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
OberonDOtherseid Logic Via Reality Posts: 653	What does this have to do with the Patriot act? If he/she is in fact stalking you and might even be reading this board I would stop giving it so much public attention where it might get irritated with your content.

Dec 5, 2004, 01:40 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
OberonDOtherseid Logic Via Reality Posts: 653	Is that on topic?

Dec 5, 2004, 02:06 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Anniee Mr. Queen Posts: 231	On the other hand, the patriot act, while a travesty to freedom, might make it equally difficult for this stalker to get away with it without leaving any traces; and might pull him/her up short. Thus the legal advice given you prior might be completely out of date in light of the pat act. Something to consider...

Dec 5, 2004, 11:27 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
OberonDOtherseid Logic Via Reality Posts: 653	The point is that if you can't get any privacy how do you suppose a stalker can? Without that stalker having the ability to slalk privately and not be noticed, it makes it hard for a stalker to stalk, right?

Dec 6, 2004, 11:20 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
OberonDOtherseid Logic Via Reality Posts: 653	Have you reported this person? Have you consitantly kept a log of this persons stalking, time , date etc? Have you managed to get any witnesses to this? With the laws in favor of women these days I can't believe you are unable to rid yourself of this person, somehow, some way.

Dec 6, 2004, 11:24 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Anniee Mr. Queen Posts: 231	Some people are unwilling to take up any type of weapons in their own defense, even to save their own lives or the lives of their loved ones. Amazing, but true, oberon. Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest. Mohandas Gandhi