Badnarik and Cobb Arrested

[Osborn F Enready]

*"IT IS NOT TOO SOON FOR HONEST MEN TO REBEL ..."
Badnarik: I will debate or be arrested*

October 8, 2004 For Immediate Release Contact: Stephen P. Gordon
Office: (512) 637-6867 Cell: (256) 227-8360
communications@badnarik.org {mailto:communications@badnarik.org}
Michael Badnarik, the Libertarian Party's 2004 presidential nominee,
will debate John Kerry and George W. Bush in St. Louis on Friday. Or
he'll go to jail instead.

"A majority of Americans say that I should be included in the events
sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates," says Badnarik,
50, of Austin, Texas. "And the CPD, as a non-profit, has received
special treatment from government on the requirement that they be
non-partisan in their activities. Bi-partisan is not non-partisan.

"Unless I am allowed to participate, the debates become a massive
campaign contribution to two of the candidates, illegal under the very
campaign finance laws those two candidates have passed and signed as
Senator and President."

At 8 p.m. on Friday evening, Badnarik, along with the demonstrators
expected to assemble in protest against his exclusion, will proceed to
the police line erected to keep himself and the other legitimate
candidates out during broadcast of the "bi-partisan campaign
commercial."

And then he will cross it.

"We'd have preferred to see John Kerry and George Bush stand up like
men to debate the issues facing America," says Badnarik's
communications director, Stephen Gordon. "However, they have
interposed the machinery of government between the American people and
the honest debate which must precede any honest election. Now it's up
to patriots like Michael Badnarik to force the issue." In Arizona, the
Libertarian Party is taking the state university to court to prevent
the expenditure of state money on a similar event.

Badnarik has previously debated David Cobb, the Green Party's
candidate; Michael Peroutka of the Constitution Party; and Walt Brown
of the Socialist Party. Kerry and Bush, as well as Independent Ralph
Nader, declined to participate in those debates. Tomorrow morning, he
will proceed from a New York taping with Bill Moyers to St. Louis,
ready to take on the Republican and Democratic machines in defense of
American democracy.

Voters in 48 states and the District of Columbia will be able to vote
for Badnarik on November 2nd. More than 600 Libertarians currently
serve in public office across the United States.
-30-

Additional press information:

- The protest will proceed from Northmoor Park on Big Bend Ave., just
south of Washington University to the corner of Big Bend and Forsyth,
where the police line is expected to be arrayed. Badnarik's crossing
onto the Washington University campus will take place at that point,
some time between 8 and 8:15 p.m. Badnarik and Green Party
presidential candidate David Cobb plan to cross the police line
together.

- The headline quote is from Thoreau, and intended to apply to the US
occupation of Iraq:

"In other words, when ... a whole country is unjustly overrun and
conquered by a foreign army, and subjected to military law, I think
that it is not too soon for honest men to rebel and revolutionize.
What makes this duty the more urgent is the fact that the country so
overrun is not our own, but ours is the invading army." -- Henry David
Thoreau, /On the Duty of Civil Disobedience/


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The time is near my friends, the revolution may indeed be televised.....


Osborn F. Enready
_________________
" A man who would trade a measure of liberty, for a measure of security, DESERVES NEITHER."

http://www.freestateproject.org
http://www.badnarik.org/

[gr8fuldaniel]

You gotta admire his spunk. They will be arresting the wrong man if they do. The real crooks are those who silence the voice of a patriot. Although I prolly wont vote for Badnarik, he is tallying up big points with me.
I just got the same email notice and was going to post it:

[SIZE=2]Badnarik: I will debate or be arrested [/SIZE]

Article
I hope it brings the desired results: To make the debate process more fair to all by accepting the candidates from the top 3 or 4 parties.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Badnarik and Cobb Arrested: Blognarik

The first report from St. Louis is in - and presidential candidates Michael Badnarik (Libertarian) and David Cobb (Green Party) were just arrested. Badnarik was carrying an Order to Show Cause, which he intended to serve the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD). Earlier today, Libertarians attempted to serve these same papers at the Washington, D.C. headquarters of the CPD - but were stopped from approaching the CPD office by security guards.

Heres the AP Report:

Just as the debate began, two third-party presidential candidates purposely crossed a police barricade and were arrested. Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb and Libertarian Party candidate Michael Badnarik were protesting their exclusion from the debate. Cobb's message: "To expose the undemocratic nature of these debate, this election and our government. These are not debates, these are infomercials."

[Osborn F Enready]

What more needs to be seen here people? Has anyone seen ANY major media touch this story? Would it have been different if Ali, the Arab from 7-11 was trying to cross the barriers into the debate?

This is an atrocity of a scale it may match, or pass the atrocity of the World Trade Center... Why is that? Because, we the nation "targeted" by terrorists for our "freedom", no longer have the freedom to hear ALL the canidates in OUR election. Yet, here we still claim to be trying to bring freedom and "democracy" (which we are not a model of by the way) to other nations.

If the sheeple cannot understand this, than the sheeple may need to go too. The time has come in America for all good men to put common sense at the forefront of the campaign, and embrace the ideals that built this nation, a truly REPRESENTATIVE, CONSTITUTIONALLY LIMITED, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

Those who can't see the subversion, need to wake up, or be targeted as the enemies of the people you are.

[Scribbler1]

You are preaching to the choir here, Osborn. The problem is the Sheeple make up the majority of the country while "all the good men" are banging their heads against the wall to get these uneducated assholes to listen. "IN GOV WE TRUST" is the national slogan and the government isn't about to share the power, hence the consistent half and half sharing of the government between the established two parties regardless of the social and political climate in the U.S..

I've been doing a lot of the head banging for the Libertarian Party for almost 20 years and about 15 of them online.

They bitch and whine about the government.

You ask them why they don't support an alternative.

They say both parties are about the same so they have no choice.

You advise them there are MORE than two parties capable of running things.

They say they don't know about other parties.

You explain who they are and what they propose.

They still don't know.

You explain again.

They continue to bitch and then go to the polling place and, holding their head high, vote for evil albeit the lesser one. All because they subconsciously trust those who MISlead us.

Bang...bang...bang...ouch...bang...shrug shoulders and wonder why you do it in the first place.

[Technosoul]

One of the main objectives of a political contest is directed at spending money for TV advertising. If a 3rd party is not spending millions for those TV spots the that same media is not going to reconized that party as being a for-real "known about" political party. The few times a 3rd party guy did not to join the cebates was when that guy was wealthy and spent money to buy those TV spots. During the re-call elections in California we had (not sure0 but perhaps 30 or so people with their names on the ballet but the news media only paid attention to those who were spending the big bucks for thier promotions. (the news only picked out a few who were jokes like the x-rated movie star as nothing more then human interest stories) but the big spenders like Arnold and Larry Flint got the serious headlines.

That is capitalism at work for you. It is all about how much money you got in your "war chest" to conduct a run for office, that is what the media will first look at, and if they got the money the TV stations got the time. Our whole political system is a busness, like any other and the media will expect a return for the air time invested.

I agree, it is not right or democratic at all. But Capitalism could care less about such ideals, only about bottom line - cashing in/

The rest of us have no say so, we just get out that old Pink Floyd record and gripe in private.

Technosoul.

[Osborn F Enready]

Techno said: That is capitalism at work for you.


I say: Techno, your ignorance of our history is only surpassed by your inability to differentiate the old world America from todays modern political structure.

To say we are currently, and ALWAYS have been a model of capitalism is a farce. Today we do not even resemble our heritage, or the values we fought for! To say that "this is capitalism", is both ignorant of the FACTS, and negligent to all those who fought in the revolution against tyranny.

You obviously need to re-analyze your "ism's" because the closest we come to in modern America is Fascism and Corporatism, and our social programs ring of Socialism. How do you derive capitalism from these? More importantly, how do you rationalize not picking up your weapons and marching to Washington?

Is there a rational man out there who can honestly say this situation does not need attention? Where is free speech, liberty or justice?

Scribbler said: You are preaching to the choir here, Osborn. The problem is the Sheeple make up the majority of the country while "all the good men" are banging their heads against the wall to get these uneducated assholes to listen. "IN GOV WE TRUST" is the national slogan and the government isn't about to share the power, hence the consistent half and half sharing of the government between the established two parties regardless of the social and political climate in the U.S..

I say: I know Scribbler, but I feel I have a duty to do all I can to aid conscious people to prepare for the inevitable revolution, and help them understand exactly why they have these feelings of hatred towards those who are in this system. The time is near, and I can only hope to wake up those who value logic and reason, and ignore those that can't see past the nose on their own face. If comfortable slavery, involuntary servitude, a corrupt system of government, and unrepresentative taxation are what a person wants, they also need to know they are MY ENEMY, as well as EVERY TRUE AMERICANS ENEMY, and will be treated as such at the start of the revolt.

If Badnarik and Cobb aren't given the justice they deserve and demand, I will be demanding blood from the paperpushers in washington, by pen and by action, should it come to that.

Shouldn't all true Americans?

That is why.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, Michael Badnarik, the Libertarian Party's 2004 presidential nominee, will debate John Kerry and George W. Bush in St. Louis on Friday. Or he'll go to jail instead. "A majority of Americans say that I should be included in the events sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates," says Badnarik, 50, of Austin, Texas.

#1
The whole U.S. nation new the exact date and time the day presidential debate was going to take place.
What stopped Badnarik to present his objections to CPD earlier ?
Any results in that matter ?
#2
Majority of Americans ?!
By what means ?

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, I have a duty to do all I can to aid conscious people to prepare for the inevitable revolution, and help them understand exactly why they have these feelings of hatred towards those who are in this system. The time is near, and I can only hope to wake up those who value logic and reason, and ignore those that can't see past the nose on their own face. If comfortable slavery, involuntary servitude, a corrupt system of government, and unrepresentative taxation are what a person wants, they also need to know they are MY ENEMY, as well as EVERY TRUE AMERICANS ENEMY, and will be treated as such at the start of the revolt.

Is that a sort of new political system's "declaration" ?

Many people have no clue what it takes to change a political system.

Enemy ? :-)))
Our the toughest enemy is our brain, that means ourselves.

Revolt ?
What can be offered to the whole nation, as a "replacement" ?
Yet another pack of "politicians", who may or may not follow their "political ancestors' path" ?
What is that new political system's structure or concept, then ?

[Osborn F Enready]

Rainbow said:

#1
The whole U.S. nation new the exact date and time the day presidential debate was going to take place.
What stopped Badnarik to present his objections to CPD earlier ?
Any results in that matter ?
#2
Majority of Americans ?!
By what means ?

I say:

#1, yes, the whole nation and the canidates KNEW the date and time of all the debates. The Republicans and Democrats REFUSED to debate anyone except themselves for this election, because they know that in a public debate between all canidates, they would be embarassed and exposed for what they are.... globalist, anti-constitutional, coporate patsies who are doing the beck and call of their parties agenda. Both major parties were invited to attend truly Open Debates, before they even met to discuss debates. Why then, if they have nothing to hide from the American people did they not attend these debates to silence the naysayers who speak out against them? If you knew anything about the topic, you would also know that the CPD has lawsuits against them currently by Alan Keyes (republican) and Open Debates, for unfair practices concerning the election, the requirements for appearance on State ballots, and admission into all public forum debates and manipulation of the publics awareness concerning these issues. Why would you defend, or play devils advocate for a topic you are not informed on?

#2, yes, public opinion, as they have met the requirements to be on a winning majority of state ballots EVEN WITH unfair practices being used to keep them off of state ballots. Michael Badnarik and the Libertarian parties canidates will be on 48 states ballots this election, which makes him more than a valid canidate. Why then will the media not allow him to appear, be questioned or debate the media, let alone the canidates?!? Why did Bill O'Reilly extend Badnarik and invitation to be interviewed, and then cancel with no reason given and no repeat invitation? Why then will no media answer the letters I send asking them about coverage of ALL VALID CANIDATES? Why then is Gallup refusing to add Badnarik to their pre-election polls? Why then does every major party person refer to the only choices we have this election being ONE of the major parties?

Please use reason and logic, and not cop-out answers in your reply should you attempt one.

Rainbow said: Enemy ? :-)))
Our the toughest enemy is our brain, that means ourselves.

Revolt ?
What can be offered to the whole nation, as a "replacement" ?
Yet another pack of "politicians", who may or may not follow their "political ancestors' path" ?
What is that new political system's structure or concept, then ?

I say: Enemy? Yes, Enemy! The toughest enemy for some may be differentiating reality from personal perception, however, to think that the establishment has not mastered the public eyes perception through media use is both naive and unbecoming a citizen, as it is YOUR, MY and EVERY citizens duty to enforce and administer punishment when the government does not concede to the checks and balances this system requires to stay operable. If you haven't noticed, the Constitution is there to protect the people from the government, not vice-versa!
As far as revolt, and what do we have to offer? This is a question that answers itself. When a system is strayed off course of its original design, it no longer serves its intended purpose, nor its intended results. This is the only reason for revolt in this country. The answer would be to once again put in place the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land, as was designed and intended, to limit government, and to insure its checks and balances from being corrupted from within, as has happened. Take a look at the 1973 Senate Hearing report, on just why Congress has determined it is no longer a necessary or functional form in our government, due to the Emergency War Powers Act, and the "PRIVILIDGE" we the people granted the president in issuing Executive Orders, which is unconstitutional, and has never been revoked, due to abuses committed by both major parties once in office.



Rainbow, perhaps you should be trying to ask yourself these questions....

What do the people have to lose by hearing all sides of an argument before making a decision? Would you not expect to be fully interviewed before getting a job? If you could bypass the interview, would you, and why??

Logic and reason my friend.

[bugsbunny04]

Guess what guys, if Badnarik and all the others were allowed to actually debate, and given equal time...my prediction:

Bush:10%(Everybody that bought the last tobey kieth record plus half the NRA)
Kerry:5%(communists and beleivers)
Nadar:25%(Kerry voters)
Cobb:5%(mostly Kerry votes)
Peroutka:10%(mostly Bush votes)
Brown:15%(Kerry voters)
Badnarik:30%(A bunch of guys whose conciences are going "arent you glad you didnt vote for that "W" f***?")

The electoral votes wouldnt be near as close. The elecroral college would be a blow out. California, New York and maybe a couple New England states (Jersey and Conneticut) and possibly by a small margin Illinois might go to Nadar. Mass would go to Kerry. Texas would be a toss up between Bush and Badnarik ("should I vote for my homeboy, or vote for my conscience?") Florida would be a toss between Nadar, Cobb and Badnarik with Bush getting a good (but inadequate) showing. Everywhere else would be a toss between BAdnarik, Bush, and Peroutka, with Badnarik winning at least 2/3 of the time. Altogether Badnarik and Nadar would be the only ones with a significant number of electoral votes, and Badnarik would have a lot more that Nadar, especially if he beats Bush in Texas and Nadar doesnt get Illinois and loses either Conneticut or New Jersey where he would still have some mentionable support.

Even if my approximations are way off, there are still good enough reason why Kush and Berry dont want any part of Badnarik and Cobb.

Irony: Kush and Berry are almost the same and they are divided as f***, except on the issue of not wanting to debate other candidates. Badnarik and Cobb are on opposite ends of the spectrum and they are united as f***. Who is being a better example for "the children" that the democrats and republicans keep whining about?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Os Take a look at the 1973 Senate Hearing report,

Good point Os.
1973 Senate Report (93-549)

Although this Senate Report addresses the issue, it does not resolve the issue. Since 1933 we have been in a perpetual "State of Emergency" giving our "Elected" President dictatorial powers which supercede Constitutional powers. Anytime one state of emergency is repealed another has already been declared.
We have THIS Volconvo topic addressing this issue.

(Edit to delete superflous link)

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by bugsbunny04, Bush:10%(Everybody that bought the last tobey kieth record plus half the NRA) Kerry:5%(communists and beleivers) Nadar:25%(Kerry voters) Cobb:5%(mostly Kerry votes) Peroutka:10%(mostly Bush votes) Brown:15%(Kerry voters) Badnarik:30%(A bunch of guys whose conciences are going "arent you glad you didnt vote for that "W" f***?")

You give Nader way too much credit.

1)He is sponsored by Bush why would 1 in 4 people vote for a 2nd fiddle for POTUS?

2)He isnt on enough ballots to convince anyone that he could win

[RickSp]

It was a stupid stunt, that had predictable results. Nobody noticed. Nobody cares.

This is an atrocity of a scale it may match, or pass the atrocity of the World Trade Center... Why is that? Because, we the nation "targeted" by terrorists for our "freedom", no longer have the freedom to hear ALL the canidates in OUR election. Yet, here we still claim to be trying to bring freedom and "democracy" (which we are not a model of by the way) to other nations.

What planet are you from again? Please be so kind as to get a grip.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by RickSp Nobody noticed. Nobody cares

Not true. This is the equivalent of a contender in the Kentucky Derby being crippled (by the owners of the 2 favorites) right before the race. Does the media cover it? Should the media cover it? Is malice OK? What planet are you from?

Have you seen the lawsuit? LINK

On October 2, 2004, the Arizona Libertarian Party (AZLP) and Warren Severin filed a Civil Complaint against Arizona State University (ASU) and the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) in Maricopa County Superior Court. Additional documentation and a press release provide additional information about this complaint. The complaint was given Case Number CV2004-019089. The basis of the complaint is that ASU and the CPD are acting in violation of the “equal protection of the laws” portion of the Fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution. The complaint also states that ASU and other governmental bodies are spending money and using other public resources in a partisan political manner in violation of Article 4, Section 19-13 and Article 9, Section 7 of the Arizona Constitution. The plaintiffs are prepared to offer evidence supporting their claim that public funds have been used in preparation for the Bush - Kerry debate, including minutes from Tempe City Council meetings and a letter written on CPD letterhead addressed to James Baker, III and Vernon Jordan. The letter is co-signed by the co-chairmen of the CPD, and states that ASU had spent “substantial resources on preparation". The complaint asks for an emergency remedy in the form of an injunction to halt the last scheduled Bush - Kerry debate. MORE ......

I noticed in the Dodger game yesterday how 2 runs were scored because none of the 6 umpires saw that a bunted ball bounced up and hit the bat when the batter stepped out of the batters box. The batter knew it, guilt was pouring from his face, nodding his head "no".

In todays society it's OK to lie and cheat until you get caught, then its horrific. Is this right?
Is this what the leaders and lawmakers of our country should exhibit as an example for our young?

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Osborn F Enready,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> the whole nation and the canidates KNEW the date and time of all the debates.  The Republicans and Democrats REFUSED to debate anyone except themselves for this election, because they know that in a public debate between all canidates, they would be embarassed and exposed for what they are.... globalist, anti-constitutional, coporate patsies who are doing the beck and call of their parties agenda.[/b]

That is these political parties' decission, whether they want to participate in some events or not. I do not care whether any political party decides to participate in any events.

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Osborn F Enready,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Why would you defend, or play devils advocate for a topic you are not informed on?[/b]

I hope you are OK. , today.

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, public opinion, as they have met the requirements to be on a winning majority of state ballots EVEN WITH unfair practices being used to keep them off of state ballots.  Michael Badnarik and the Libertarian parties canidates will be on 48 states ballots this election, which makes him more than a valid canidate.

Meeting "requirements" and caliming a "majority", there are completely different matters, in this case.
Let us see the results from these 48 states first, and then we can talk about "majority".

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, Please use reason and logic, and not cop-out answers in your reply should you attempt one.

I try my the best :-)))

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, Enemy?  Yes, Enemy!  The toughest enemy for some may be differentiating reality from personal perception, however, to think that the establishment has not mastered the public eyes perception through media use is both naive and unbecoming a citizen

Are you addressing this text to yourself ?

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, If you haven't noticed, the Constitution is there to protect the people from the government, not vice-versa!

I know that. Is that a sort of "reminder" ?
Thank you, then.

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, As far as revolt, and what do we have to offer?  This is a question that answers itself.

What is the answer ?

<!--QuoteBegin-Osborn F Enready,@

Rainbow, perhaps you should be trying to ask yourself these questions....

What do the people have to lose by hearing all sides of an argument before making a decision?  Would you not expect to be fully interviewed before getting a job?  If you could bypass the interview, would you, and why??[/quote]
1. No clue. I can not speak for all the people (unless you refer to a particular case, then submit it, please).
2. I am not the one who "hires", then I can not force others to comply with my requirements while being inteviewed. It is other way around.
3. There are variety of reasons.

<!--QuoteBegin-Osborn F Enready,

Logic and reason my friend.[/quote]
That is correct, and I hope you had better stick to it.

Generally, whever wrote that whole text (is that you ? ) wants the bases for the politics, military, intelligence, finance, economy, the Law, the Constitution, (fundaments for any state's existance) to be upheld with accordance to their principle.
(It can not be "clasified" as a revolt, as a matter of fact).

Since, we are all Human Beings, it (a "revolt") most likely would never happen. Such states exist in our dreams, only, and not on planet Earth.
Hint : As the fundamental task, you need to change Mankind.
Good luck on your achievements, guys. It may take you millenniums or a "little more".

[Osborn F Enready]

Rainbow, please re-disect and explain how exactly you didn't understand what "I" typed?

Most of your answers are off topic, and you did not see the answer before you clipped the question in response to most of what I see in your last post.

What I was doing, was pointing out how what Bush and Kerry support are unconstitutional, yet each claims to spread liberty, and abide the Constitution.

Please explain what you didn't understand again? Why are choices bad?

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, What I was doing, was pointing out how what Bush and Kerry support are unconstitutional, yet each claims to spread liberty, and abide the Constitution.

The Law and the Constitution are being violated since a state (along with its political system's principles) has been established. It concerns all the states. We people do it, regardless of our positions, salary, tasks, income, ect. for variety of reasons.

If some people see that state's fundaments are being notoriously broken (especially by those who should have been upheld state's fundaments) and those people want to "fix" it, then they need to choose the right way to comply with it.
Merely stating facts, do not always bring positive or expected results.

- one needs to have real and valid arguments, in order a "majority" to start perceiving that subject properly
- one needs to get others' attention, in order to get supporters.
- one needs to get some funds, in order to communicate and interact with those who are not familiar with a subject (in these days it costs extra)
These few starting points could serve as the "base" for eventually initial activity, in order changes to bring desired effects. It takes time. A lot of time.

Revolt ?
With People who are not familiar with a subject ?
That is an "invitation" to anarchy. No state can afford it, or tolerate it.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Rainbow, That is these political parties' decission, whether they want to participate in some events or not. I do not care whether any political party decides to participate in any events.

You are right about that, but the parties are WRONG in doing this. The fact is there ARE other political paeries, and some of these (Libertarian, Green, Reform) are popular enough to be included. What the Democrats and Republicans are doing is ensuring that no other party gains any sort of a foothold in their private playground. If memory serves, the League of Women Voters was not so obvious about excluding the others, provided there was sufficient support. But the two biggies took that over and decided that was that. Since they want to control MY life, I should have the opportunity to hear opposing viewpoints.

In short, as an American Citizen, I believe I have the RIGHT to hear others present their sides, and if the pandering media would give just the top THREE independant parties a prime time debate, there would finally be a choice and you wouldn't have to see it on CSPAN2!
It's not only TPTB, it is the NETWORKS who are deliberately cutting off open debate. I wonder what the big shot talking heads in the television industry have to say about this, or have they even been asked.

[Osborn F Enready]

Well said Scrib.

Rainbow, I fail to see what your point is.